One big lie about Linux

[BotDamian]

Hello everyone,

one thing is bothering me a lot, people say that Linux is so great and that you just need to type a command in the terminal and the programs install.

For example let's take someone who uses DaVinci Resolve on Windows want's to use it on ArchLinux.

You type "sudo pacman -S davinci-resolve" it will show "target not found" so this is already a lie that it's enough to type one command.

Then we move on, we find out that we need to download the source code from AUR.

We download it and then the user needs to know what compiling is. Lets say he knows what to do and he types "makepkg".

Could not resolve all dependencies, now you need to type out each package and install it normally with pacman because for some reason it's unable to do it itself.

So after installing few packages you come across a ting called lib32-libpng12.

You find out that you need to enable multilib and then you try to install lib32-libpng12, not found. You find out that you need to update all mirrors after enabling multilib and then you try again, not found. Then you start installing each random package from google that includes the keyword lib32-libpng12 because you're mad asf.

After you calm down a little, you do the same for lib32-libpng12, you download the source code, you run makepkg on it, then it throws a error (why shouldn't it) "couldnt resolve all dependencies". You google wtf lib32-zlib is and you realize it has no source code to download and multilib seems to not be working (because it fails on any multilib package).

 

So now you wait for your new CPU to arrive, to upgrade your 2nd PC (because you sold the old CPU) and will use DaVinci Resolve on Windows while keeping ArchLinux on your mini TV PC for lols and programming websites because SSH is ez chill mode on Linux.

 

I guess Linux will never be a good replacement for a normal user like your parents. I like ArchLinux but I think about getting Ubuntu maybe the life is easier there without the f n 32bit libs that should be dead by now and I don't understand why devs use 32bit libs same as jQuery.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Guess i should start learning linux then cause once i get a laptop ill dualboot linux and windows 7 (idgaf that its unsupported w7 ftw!)

 

First time i tried linux was slax linux but i couldnt figure out how to install a browser xD

[BotDamian]

Just now, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Guess i should start learning linux then cause once i get a laptop ill dualboot linux and windows 7 (idgaf that its unsupported w7 ftw!)

 

First time i tried linux was slax linux but i couldnt figure out how to install a browser xD

Don't get me wrong, Linux is an amazing peace of software. I run VPS servers with CentOS 8 and I've setup Nginx, SEL and so on. It works freaking great as a server OS but when it comes to daily things... it's actually bad if you want to do some content creation or use UNITY or UnrealEngine or anything else except the "what your mom would use" programs.

 

I wouldn't even dual boot it, just buy a old RaspberryPi for like 20 bucks and install it there and use it on your TV.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

2 minutes ago, BotDamian said:

Don't get me wrong, Linux is an amazing peace of software. I run VPS servers with CentOS 8 and I've setup Nginx, SEL and so on. It works freaking great as a server OS but when it comes to daily things... it's actually bad if you want to do some content creation or use UNITY or UnrealEngine or anything else except the "what your mom would use" programs.

 

I wouldn't even dual boot it, just buy a old RaspberryPi for like 20 bucks and install it there and use it on your TV.

Raspberry pi smart tv is better than some crappy tv box or smart tv cause privacy concerns and the fact that you can use the rpi as a desktop, just hook it up to a wireless keyboard which means not slow asf typing on fking youtube

 

Oh and linux is literally the only option on rpi cause its arm based but ah well better than sh**dows 10 with the amount of bloat it has plus having to debloat every single update

 

Long live the penguin os

Shatter goes the window os

[Master Disaster]

21 minutes ago, BotDamian said:

Hello everyone,

one thing is bothering me a lot, people say that Linux is so great and that you just need to type a command in the terminal and the programs install.

For example let's take someone who uses DaVinci Resolve on Windows want's to use it on ArchLinux.

You type "sudo pacman -S davinci-resolve" it will show "target not found" so this is already a lie that it's enough to type one command.

Then we move on, we find out that we need to download the source code from AUR.

We download it and then the user needs to know what compiling is. Lets say he knows what to do and he types "makepkg".

Could not resolve all dependencies, now you need to type out each package and install it normally with pacman because for some reason it's unable to do it itself.

So after installing few packages you come across a ting called lib32-libpng12.

You find out that you need to enable multilib and then you try to install lib32-libpng12, not found. You find out that you need to update all mirrors after enabling multilib and then you try again, not found. Then you start installing each random package from google that includes the keyword lib32-libpng12 because you're mad asf.

After you calm down a little, you do the same for lib32-libpng12, you download the source code, you run makepkg on it, then it throws a error (why shouldn't it) "couldnt resolve all dependencies". You google wtf lib32-zlib is and you realize it has no source code to download and multilib seems to not be working (because it fails on any multilib package).

 

So now you wait for your new CPU to arrive, to upgrade your 2nd PC (because you sold the old CPU) and will use DaVinci Resolve on Windows while keeping ArchLinux on your mini TV PC for lols and programming websites because SSH is ez chill mode on Linux.

 

I guess Linux will never be a good replacement for a normal user like your parents. I like ArchLinux but I think about getting Ubuntu maybe the life is easier there without the f n 32bit libs that should be dead by now and I don't understand why devs use 32bit libs same as jQuery.

Or you could just do the smart thing and install Pamac then use its GUI to pull Resolve with all dependants and build it for you

[Biohazard777]

 

27 minutes ago, BotDamian said:

I don't understand why devs use 32bit libs same as jQuery.

From my experience devs that trash on jQuery and praise AngularJS or ReactJS or whatever pops up in the meantime usually lack fundamental knowledge when it comes to programming. 

 

15 minutes ago, BotDamian said:

VPS servers with CentOS 8

RIP CentOS, long live Rocky Linux.

[Guest]

This sounds more like a problem with Arch Linux and not understanding how PKGBUILDS and Arch Linux works than a Linux problem. This is why Distros such as Ubuntu exist.

[Biohazard777]

16 minutes ago, Nayr438 said:

This sounds more like a problem with Arch Linux and not understanding how PKGBUILDS and Arch Linux works than a Linux problem. This is why Distros such as Ubuntu exist.

He can still use an Arch based distro with far less hassle, like Manjaro. Doesn't have to touch the console to install most software (and dependencies) out of the box.

[BotDamian]

1 hour ago, Biohazard777 said:

 

From my experience devs that trash on jQuery and praise AngularJS or ReactJS or whatever pops up in the meantime usually lack fundamental knowledge when it comes to programming. 

 

RIP CentOS, long live Rocky Linux.

I'm a I don't praise any Framework, the only good thing would be ExpressJS, Gsap, that's all, see no other good Lib or Framework that is actually useful and what would be magnitudes more work than doing it with Vanilla.

 

I also found the issue to solve my problem, a source said to uncomment the Include and it will work. After looking at the config I've realized that for example `[core]` is also uncommented. So I uncomment `[multilib]` and after this I got a popup saying i need to do `pacman -Sy` and after this I need to install manually the `lib32-libpng12` and then the `makepkg` worked.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, BotDamian said:

I also found the issue to solve my problem, a source said to uncomment the Include and it will work. After looking at the config I've realized that for example `[core]` is also uncommented. So I uncomment `[multilib]` and after this I got a popup saying i need to do `pacman -Sy` and after this I need to install manually the `lib32-libpng12` and then the `makepkg` worked.

If you followed the Arch Wiki install process into General Recommendations you would have seen it noted that multilib needs to be enabled for 32bit packages. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/general_recommendations#Repositories

[Giganthrax]

In defense of Linux, ubuntu-based distros I personally have experience with (Lubuntu, ZorinOS Lite, Linux Mint Mate) enable you to easily install stuff from the software store or just run a .deb file with gdebi, which resolves all dependencies and whatnot on its own, so that's pretty hassle-free. Flathub packages also seem to work fine out of the box.

 

Apart from that, I agree. Most mainstream Linux distros are still buggy pieces of shit with weird and non-intuitive ways to do things, so I dread to think what advanced distros like Arch are like.  

[Master Disaster]

25 minutes ago, Giganthrax said:

Apart from that, I agree. Most mainstream Linux distros are still buggy pieces of shit with weird and non-intuitive ways to do things, so I dread to think what advanced distros like Arch are like.  

Yeah, no. You might not be used to the way Linux does things, you might even not like the way Linux does things but that doesn't equate to them being weird and non intuitive, just unfamiliar.

 

Linux is designed to give the user as much or as little control over their system as they want. Your mum can quite easily use Ubuntu for facebook, office and other home user things and your sysadmin can use CentOS to run their high volume cloud server.

 

Fun fact: I've had an Ubuntu 20.04 Server VM running on my NAS acting as my webserver for the best part of 2 years, it is never rebooted, it has never crashed and it still feels identical in terms of speed today as it did the day I installed it.

 

Absolutely no offence intended here but if your Linux experience is "a buggy piece of shit" then the problem is more than likely with you or something you are doing.

[Alexeygridnev1993]

You literally picked the worst possible example and then, based on that,  you made a broad generalisation about Linux. Congrats.

 

DaVinci Resolve is a proprietary piece of software which is only officially supported on CentOS. You're ASKING for trouble if you're trying to install in on anything other than RHEL, Fedora, or CentOS. Not that you shouldn't try, but don't expect it to work out of the box if it's not even supposed to.

[BotDamian]

1 hour ago, Nayr438 said:

If you followed the Arch Wiki install process into General Recommendations you would have seen it noted that multilib needs to be enabled for 32bit packages. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/general_recommendations#Repositories

If you would have read carefully what I wrote you would realize that I did this:

# [multilib]
Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist

istead of this

[multilib]
Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist

 

[BotDamian]

1 hour ago, Giganthrax said:

In defense of Linux, ubuntu-based distros I personally have experience with (Lubuntu, ZorinOS Lite, Linux Mint Mate) enable you to easily install stuff from the software store or just run a .deb file with gdebi, which resolves all dependencies and whatnot on its own, so that's pretty hassle-free. Flathub packages also seem to work fine out of the box.

 

Apart from that, I agree. Most mainstream Linux distros are still buggy pieces of shit with weird and non-intuitive ways to do things, so I dread to think what advanced distros like Arch are like.  

The problem is that Linux has to many distros, it's the biggest flaw of Linux. With Linux I'm talking about Debian, Slack, Arch and so on.
Instead of working on one thing as a collective people branch out and waste time to do their own stuff. Devs are awesome yes, I joined the D.tube DEV team and I'm working on the frontend. Yes I could say that I don't care what the community wants but I do care, because I'm not creating a whole frontend for myself but for everyone.

So if Linux devs stopped creating a new distro because they don't like the icon set the previous distro was using, we would have a greater experience.

 

Yes it's healthy to have options, but why has no one created another Linux? Because Linux itself is an amazing piece of software, where end users / normal devs (who dont work on the kernel) tend to create new distros to say "it's their project". Even after 9years of being a dev (started at age of about 17) I'm happy to say to improve d.tube for free while having about 6 other own projects on standby.

 

That's just my thought about Linux, first people focus on 3 distros then it became 2000.

I don't know the numbers but let this be a example, it used to be that 2000 people work on 3 distros and now 2000 distros have 3 people.

 

  

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Absolutely no offence intended here but if your Linux experience is "a buggy piece of shit" then the problem is more than likely with you or something you are doing.

Old Gnome used to be very buggy and slow, now it's magnitudes better. In fact same, I swap PCs more than i reinstall Linux. In fact, I have never reinstalled Linux because it was buggy or slow, more like me killing the paths or messing with permission making the OS unusable.

[Master Disaster]

36 minutes ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

You literally picked the worst possible example and then, based on that,  you made a broad generalisation about Linux. Congrats.

 

DaVinci Resolve is a proprietary piece of software which is only officially supported on CentOS. You're ASKING for trouble if you're trying to install in on anything other than RHEL, Fedora, or CentOS. Not that you shouldn't try, but don't expect it to work out of the box if it's not even supposed to.

Ubuntu Store has a single click deb package available (or at least I'm 99% sure it does though now I'm doubting myself )

 

Yeah, I'm 100% sure it used to because I remember I used it as way to check if OpenCL was working correctly on my RX580. Its been a long time since I used any Ubuntu Desktop.

[Master Disaster]

6 minutes ago, BotDamian said:

The problem is that Linux has to many distros, it's the biggest flaw of Linux. With Linux I'm talking about Debian, Slack, Arch and so on.
Instead of working on one thing as a collective people branch out and waste time to do their own stuff. Devs are awesome yes, I joined the D.tube DEV team and I'm working on the frontend. Yes I could say that I don't care what the community wants but I do care, because I'm not creating a whole frontend for myself but for everyone.

So if Linux devs stopped creating a new distro because they don't like the icon set the previous distro was using, we would have a greater experience.

 

Yes it's healthy to have options, but why has no one created another Linux? Because Linux itself is an amazing piece of software, where end users / normal devs (who dont work on the kernel) tend to create new distros to say "it's their project". Even after 9years of being a dev (started at age of about 17) I'm happy to say to improve d.tube for free while having about 6 other own projects on standby.

 

That's just my thought about Linux, first people focus on 3 distros then it became 2000.

I don't know the numbers but let this be a example, it used to be that 2000 people work on 3 distros and now 2000 distros have 3 people.

 

  

Old Gnome used to be very buggy and slow, now it's magnitudes better. In fact same, I swap PCs more than i reinstall Linux. In fact, I have never reinstalled Linux because it was buggy or slow, more like me killing the paths or messing with permission making the OS unusable.

Yep, the only time my internet facing webserver went down was when I did

 

sudo chown -R www-data:www-data /

 

instead of

 

sudo chown -R www-data:www-data ./

 

and TBH, I could have fixed that without nuking the root FS, I just didn't want to risk running a server that had been bodged back into working and I am storing my root FS and all my important files on separate partitions so I didn't really lose anything.

[Giganthrax]

2 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Absolutely no offence intended here but if your Linux experience is "a buggy piece of shit" then the problem is more than likely with you or something you are doing.

Nah.

 

Some older version of Linux Mint Xfce I used some years ago: OS just randomly broke after an update and wouldn't work. 

 

Current Lubuntu LTS edition: sometimes when logging in, it randomly reports some error and then half the programs work weirdly, with icons not appearing, parts of programs showing through windows that are currently maximized, and so on. This goes away after logging out and logging back in, but come on, seriously? Also, the touchpad randomly stops working. Also, I couldn't for the life of me get a system-wide theme to work properly. To make matters worse, the previous LTS version of Lubuntu worked fine on the same machine and never had any of these problems.

 

ZorinOS Lite: System just randomly freezes regardless of what I'm doing. Mouse still works but nothing else does. Absolutely no community support so no effective solution. 

 

All of the above problems are dealbreakers. I simply install the OS, and then I install the programs I need, and I expect it to work. I shouldn't have to be knowledgeable about the inner workings of an OS to be able to watch movies, surf the web, and do work in the google suite without experiencing major bugs. 

 

As of this writing, I'm using Linux Mint Mate LTS edition and so far it's great. Sometimes it shows double tray icons (eg., I get to see two wifi or power management icons for no apparent reason), and some of the default themes don't function at all on my work laptop while working fine on my personal laptop, but these aren't serious bugs so I don't mind them. Hopefully, it'll stay that way. 

[Master Disaster]

18 minutes ago, Giganthrax said:

Nah.

 

Some older version of Linux Mint Xfce I used some years ago: OS just randomly broke after an update and wouldn't work. 

 

Current Lubuntu LTS edition: sometimes when logging in, it randomly reports some error and then half the programs work weirdly, with icons not appearing, parts of programs showing through windows that are currently maximized, and so on. This goes away after logging out and logging back in, but come on, seriously? Also, the touchpad randomly stops working. Also, I couldn't for the life of me get a system-wide theme to work properly. To make matters worse, the previous LTS version of Lubuntu worked fine on the same machine and never had any of these problems.

 

ZorinOS Lite: System just randomly freezes regardless of what I'm doing. Mouse still works but nothing else does. Absolutely no community support so no effective solution. 

 

All of the above problems are dealbreakers. I simply install the OS, and then I install the programs I need, and I expect it to work. I shouldn't have to be knowledgeable about the inner workings of an OS to be able to watch movies, surf the web, and do work in the google suite without experiencing major bugs. 

TBH those sound like LXDE issues more than Linux issues. Gnome is pretty much perfect for "normal desktop" use, KDE is amazing for people wanting to customise the hell out of everything and IMO, BY FAR the best "lite" desktop environment is Cinnamon. I'll admit, I use LXDE very rarely so I have no idea how stable it is or not.

18 minutes ago, Giganthrax said:

 

As of this writing, I'm using Linux Mint Mate LTS edition and so far it's great. Sometimes it shows double tray icons (eg., I get to see two wifi or power management icons for no apparent reason), and some of the default themes don't function at all on my work laptop while working fine on my personal laptop, but these aren't serious bugs so I don't mind them. Hopefully, it'll stay that way. 

I've never used Mate at all though I hear its stable, pretty and user friendly. Honestly, don't think I've ever used Mint or any of it variants.

[Giganthrax]

17 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

TBH those sound like LXDE issues more than Linux issues. Gnome is pretty much perfect for "normal desktop" use, KDE is amazing for people wanting to customise the hell out of everything and IMO, BY FAR the best "lite" desktop environment is Cinnamon. I'll admit, I use LXDE very rarely so I have no idea how stable it is or not.

Actually, the previous Lubuntu LTS version which was LXDE-based worked really well for me. I was happy with it and only upgraded to the current one, which is based on LXQT, because the previous one was no longer supported as of April. Unfortunately, LXQT feels like a pretty big step down from LXDE. 

 

The Mint that broke for me was xfce, and the ZorinOS Lite was also a modded xfce, so I don't think the problem necessarily lies with the desktop environment. The OSes were simply bugged and there was no easy way to find a solution online. 

 

Hopefully, Mint Mate won't disappoint me down the road.

[dragonfly43]

Less choices mean 'dictatorship' - mean big bucks for a few enterprises.

If you come to Linux expecting the newest, the latest for free, than stay with W$. 

People don't get pay, so you have to make some effort  of your own. Anybody working in programming should know, the worst thankless job is documentation, and it's hard to keep it up-to-date. 

Yes, somebody already pointed out, you chose Arch, one of the most unfriendly distros to start with.

[WkdPaul]

On 7/3/2021 at 1:02 PM, Master Disaster said:

Yeah, no. You might not be used to the way Linux does things, you might even not like the way Linux does things but that doesn't equate to them being weird and non intuitive, just unfamiliar.

To be fair, SOME Linux distros out there ARE buggy pos.

 

My personal experience with Manjaro has been rather poor and frustrating, starting with the partitioning through the GUI installer. I was able to install it by doing the partitioning myself, for some reason the GUI tool was fucking it up and I would get a generic "installation failed" at the end.

[igormp]

On 7/3/2021 at 3:13 PM, BotDamian said:

Instead of working on one thing as a collective people branch out and waste time to do their own stuff.

And they do. Most important projects, such as the kernel itself and the DEs, have a single upstream where people concentrate their efforts.

[BondiBlue]

On 7/5/2021 at 8:52 AM, wkdpaul said:

To be fair, SOME Linux distros out there ARE buggy pos.

 

My personal experience with Manjaro has been rather poor and frustrating, starting with the partitioning through the GUI installer. I was able to install it by doing the partitioning myself, for some reason the GUI tool was fucking it up and I would get a generic "installation failed" at the end.

Same here, but not with Manjaro. I've found that Mint usually just works out of the box on basically anything from a potato to a rocket ship, so that's what I stick with. Other distros have been rather hit or miss in terms of simply working right. 

[el_murdoque]

On 7/3/2021 at 12:54 PM, BotDamian said:

Hello everyone,

one thing is bothering me a lot, people say that Linux is so great and that you just need to type a command in the terminal and the programs install.

For example let's take someone who uses DaVinci Resolve on Windows want's to use it on ArchLinux.

You type "sudo pacman -S davinci-resolve" it will show "target not found" so this is already a lie that it's enough to type one command.

Then we move on, we find out that we need to download the source code from AUR.

We download it and then the user needs to know what compiling is. Lets say he knows what to do and he types "makepkg".

Could not resolve all dependencies, now you need to type out each package and install it normally with pacman because for some reason it's unable to do it itself.

So after installing few packages you come across a ting called lib32-libpng12.

You find out that you need to enable multilib and then you try to install lib32-libpng12, not found. You find out that you need to update all mirrors after enabling multilib and then you try again, not found. Then you start installing each random package from google that includes the keyword lib32-libpng12 because you're mad asf.

After you calm down a little, you do the same for lib32-libpng12, you download the source code, you run makepkg on it, then it throws a error (why shouldn't it) "couldnt resolve all dependencies". You google wtf lib32-zlib is and you realize it has no source code to download and multilib seems to not be working (because it fails on any multilib package).

 

So now you wait for your new CPU to arrive, to upgrade your 2nd PC (because you sold the old CPU) and will use DaVinci Resolve on Windows while keeping ArchLinux on your mini TV PC for lols and programming websites because SSH is ez chill mode on Linux.

 

I guess Linux will never be a good replacement for a normal user like your parents. I like ArchLinux but I think about getting Ubuntu maybe the life is easier there without the f n 32bit libs that should be dead by now and I don't understand why devs use 32bit libs same as jQuery.

 

 

So what you're saying is that the statement that Linux is great because you can install a program with a single command is "One big lie about Linux" because you found one program that won't install with a single command? 

 

You're funny.