RAM Speed instability

[VelikiPCguy]

Hey all, I recently spoke to someone who works at Chillblast (a big PC build company in the UK) who basically said I shouldn't be looking for RAM that's higher than 3200MHz (even with XMP turned on) because it makes the system unstable. Is that generally true? Assuming the other parts are high-end (3090 GPU, 5950X CPU, good cooling, etc.), can faster RAM really make the system unstable?

[Levent]

Depends on the particular RAM, CPU and motherboard configuration. I would say running higher than 3200mhz is generally harder.

[VelikiPCguy]

5 minutes ago, Levent said:

Depends on the particular RAM, CPU and motherboard configuration.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X

 

Motherboard: Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master

 

RAM: G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3800 CL14

 

That's the configuration in question.

5 minutes ago, Levent said:

I would say running higher than 3200mhz is generally harder.

What do you mean by harder?

[Tech87]

This is a good question, and I suspect that the higher the speed and tighter the timings the board is asked to push, the harder it is on said board to deliver the performance.

 

Applying an XMP profile is technically an overclock, and works in much the same way.

 

For example, the higher you push the CPU/GPU speeds, the more you need to increase voltage to stabilize everything. Eventually you will hit a point where the system will just crash and lose stability.

[freeagent]

Its up to the CPU as to how fast it will let memory run. The board helps too of course, but not as much as you would think.

[VelikiPCguy]

2 hours ago, Tech87 said:

For example, the higher you push the CPU/GPU speeds, the more you need to increase voltage to stabilize everything. Eventually you will hit a point where the system will just crash and lose stability.

 

2 hours ago, freeagent said:

Its up to the CPU as to how fast it will let memory run.

So do you reckon a Ryzen 5950 would be able to handle this RAM stably?

[freeagent]

46 minutes ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

 

So do you reckon a Ryzen 5950 would be able to handle this RAM stably?

I don't see why it wouldn't. Check the QVL on the mobo page and the memory page. I cross checked both of my pairs before I paid for them. My 3200C14 has been to 4200C14 and I think I squeezed off 4600 C16 once. I could be full of shit on that though. 4400 C16 for sure.

 

As to what you will be able to run? I have no idea I would imagine between 1800-2k fclk.

[Tech87]

4 hours ago, freeagent said:

Its up to the CPU as to how fast it will let memory run. The board helps too of course, but not as much as you would think.

That's a good point, and I can see a slower cpu holding back the ram.

It's actually both components that play a role.

 

That's why it's important to have a well balanced system overall.

[freeagent]

1 hour ago, Tech87 said:

That's a good point, and I can see a slower cpu holding back the ram.

It's actually both components that play a role.

 

That's why it's important to have a well balanced system overall.

Indeed, they are both important.. a 6 layer board usually does better than a 4 layer board for memory cycles.. but for max fclk/uclk that will be more on the CPU than the board. I can run 2100 1:1 but it is not 24/7 stable, but I can run 2000 1:1 stable as a table. My 3600XT wont do a hair over 1900 1:1 on the same board 

[VelikiPCguy]

11 hours ago, freeagent said:

Check the QVL on the mobo page and the memory page.

Well I couldn't find the info on the manufacturer's website, but I did find it on cnet, and it seems the X570 Aorus Master supports up to 4400MHz overclocked (https://www.cnet.com/products/gigabyte-x570-aorus-master-1-0-motherboard-atx-socket-am4-amd-x570/). So with that mobo and that CPU, the RAM I chose should be fine? No unexpected stutters, crashes, and similar?

[freeagent]

I had a look on the gigabyte site. An exercise in futility. Then I looked at the G.Skill site and your board was on their qvl.

[VelikiPCguy]

27 minutes ago, freeagent said:

I had a look on the gigabyte site. An exercise in futility. Then I looked at the G.Skill site and your board was on their qvl.

Hey thanks so much, I didn't know the RAM website provided that info as well.

 

But maybe I'm just looking at the wrong thing, the site I'm looking at (https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/326/1565148085/F4-3800C14Q-32GTZN-Qvl) doesn't actually list the Gigabyte mobo as a QVL, it only lists the Asus versions?

[freeagent]

29 minutes ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

Hey thanks so much, I didn't know the RAM website provided that info as well.

 

But maybe I'm just looking at the wrong thing, the site I'm looking at (https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/326/1565148085/F4-3800C14Q-32GTZN-Qvl) doesn't actually list the Gigabyte mobo as a QVL, it only lists the Asus versions?

Sorry I was in bed on my phone, I looked at the 16GB kit, not 32.

[OCNewbee]

1 hour ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

Hey thanks so much, I didn't know the RAM website provided that info as well.

 

But maybe I'm just looking at the wrong thing, the site I'm looking at (https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/326/1565148085/F4-3800C14Q-32GTZN-Qvl) doesn't actually list the Gigabyte mobo as a QVL, it only lists the Asus versions?

https://download.gigabyte.com/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x570-aorus-master_matisse_190812.pdf

This is the QVL for your mobo.

 

I would go with samsung b-dies for compatibility reasons so use this to find samsung b-die rams

https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/

 

IMO, overclocking ram is pretty easy and quite stable as long as you do not push it too hard.

I am currently running a i9 9900k and a gskill trident z 3600 RGB 8x2

This is rated at CAS 17 at 3600 @ 1.35v however, I overclocked this to CAS 17 4000. No problem whatsoever. (1hr of OCCT memory test)

 

So this is what I would do

1) find a b-die from the QVL list

2) overclock it

 

3200mhz instability imo is bull.

Your computer company does not want to spend their time

1) educating you

2) hold your hands and walk through the process of overclocking

3) assume liability incase your OC goes wrong

 

RAM OC is pretty simply IMO. It took me like 20 minutes of youtube to understand it.

 

 

 

[freeagent]

Yes. 

 

I am a complete idiot, and even I was able to do learn a little. 

 

So if I can do it, so can you!

[VelikiPCguy]

4 hours ago, OCNewbee said:

https://download.gigabyte.com/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x570-aorus-master_matisse_190812.pdf

This is the QVL for your mobo.

Thank you, but am I seeing this right - no 64gb memory and only a single 32gb memory are QVL for this mobo? What gives?

 

4 hours ago, OCNewbee said:

I would go with samsung b-dies for compatibility reasons so use this to find samsung b-die rams

https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/

Sorry but from my (very quick) research I'm a bit confused, is b-die just a type of Samsung RAM? Why does it list Corsair as the series type then?

 

4 hours ago, OCNewbee said:

This is rated at CAS 17 at 3600 @ 1.35v however, I overclocked this to CAS 17 4000. No problem whatsoever. (1hr of OCCT memory test)

Regarding the 1.35v, PC Part Picker is giving me the error message "·Note: The G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3800 CL14 Memory operating voltage of 1.5 V exceeds the AMD Zen 3 CPU recommended maximum of 1.35 V+7% (1.444 V). This memory module may run at a reduced clock rate to meet the 1.35 V voltage recommendation, or may require running at a voltage greater than the AMD recommended maximum."

 

Uhh is that a problem?

[freeagent]

Sorry hombre, wish I could help with the QVL stuff, but I normally don't run gigabyte boards..

 

I think 1.5v is ok.. at least for the ram.  I have spent most of the 6 months or so I have had mine at about 1.5v, sometimes more 

 

But not more than 1.645v.. because after that the voltage goes from pink to red 

 

 

[OCNewbee]

11 hours ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

Sorry but from my (very quick) research I'm a bit confused, is b-die just a type of Samsung RAM? Why does it list Corsair as the series type then?

well corsair is not a manufacturer of rams. They use samung, micron or hynix rams and slap their stickers on them. Samsung b-dies are the special rams known for stable overclocking compared to other rams. 

 

Here is my recommendation for your mobo

https://www.gskill.com/product/165/168/1536226970/F4-3600C17Q-64GTZTrident-ZDDR4-3600MHz-CL17-19-19-39-1.35V64GB-(4x16GB)

 

This ram is compatible with your mobo.

11 hours ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

Regarding the 1.35v, PC Part Picker is giving me the error message "·Note: The G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3800 CL14 Memory operating voltage of 1.5 V exceeds the AMD Zen 3 CPU recommended maximum of 1.35 V+7% (1.444 V). This memory module may run at a reduced clock rate to meet the 1.35 V voltage recommendation, or may require running at a voltage greater than the AMD recommended maximum."

I think 1.5v is really pushing it. If a ram is rated at 1.35v, the most you should push is 1.4v. Beyond this, the temperature goes out of control. Moreover, the PCB starts bending at ~85C. This is why many overclocked CPUs are slightly bent inwards since overclockers like to push their hardware's thermal limits for long periods at a time like stress testing. Stick to the rams on QVL. The G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3800 CL14 is not listed on there so it is highly inadvisable to buy this. You could be lucky and get this to work but at 3600+ speed, the gain is quite minimal so stability is more important imo.

[VelikiPCguy]

18 hours ago, OCNewbee said:

Here is my recommendation for your mobo

https://www.gskill.com/product/165/168/1536226970/F4-3600C17Q-64GTZTrident-ZDDR4-3600MHz-CL17-19-19-39-1.35V64GB-(4x16GB)

 

This ram is compatible with your mobo.

Thank you, but how were you able to check that? That RAM isn't on the QVL list (https://download.gigabyte.com/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x570-aorus-master_matisse_190812.pdf).

 

18 hours ago, OCNewbee said:

If a ram is rated at 1.35v, the most you should push is 1.4v.

I'm assuming you meant to say CPU / mobo here, not ram?

 

How can you check a RAM's recommended voltage (or a CPU's / mobo's for that matter)?

[freeagent]

G.Skill sells Samsung chips with 3800 14-15-15-35 1T 1.5v on the sticker.. Just move a little air around and they will be fine. I saw another set of ram from Oloy? They were rated @ 2000 14-15-15-35 1T 1.55v I almost bought them, but my ram does those speeds already.. just not in 4x8.. they were 2x8 kits. Good luck getting 4 to run at that speed though. I would be impressed, and anyone else who has tried would be too.

[VelikiPCguy]

19 minutes ago, freeagent said:

G.Skill sells Samsung chips with 3800 14-15-15-35 1T 1.5v on the sticker.. Just move a little air around and they will be fine. I saw another set of ram from Oloy? They were rated @ 2000 14-15-15-35 1T 1.55v I almost bought them, but my ram does those speeds already.. just not in 4x8.. they were 2x8 kits. Good luck getting 4 to run at that speed though. I would be impressed, and anyone else who has tried would be too.

So what RAM would you suggest, what's the optimal nanosecond delay? They all seem to range from 7ns to 10ns, and I really don't know how much of a difference that actually is

[VelikiPCguy]

19 hours ago, OCNewbee said:

Here is my recommendation for your mobo

https://www.gskill.com/product/165/168/1536226970/F4-3600C17Q-64GTZTrident-ZDDR4-3600MHz-CL17-19-19-39-1.35V64GB-(4x16GB)

 

This ram is compatible with your mobo.

And also, wouldn't this RAM technically be better? https://pangoly.com/en/review/g-skill-64gb-4x16gb-ripjaws-v-ddr4-3200mhz

 

I saw it listed on Pangoly (https://pangoly.com/en/review/gigabyte-x570-aorus-master/compatibility/ram?c=Vermeer#cc) as QVL for my mobo + CPU combo, plus it's b-die, plus the ns delay is faster (3200MHz CL14 brings it to 8.75, while the one you suggested with 3600MHz and CL17 is 9.4).

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, NewwGuyy123 said:

And also, wouldn't this RAM technically be better? https://pangoly.com/en/review/g-skill-64gb-4x16gb-ripjaws-v-ddr4-3200mhz

 

I saw it listed on Pangoly (https://pangoly.com/en/review/gigabyte-x570-aorus-master/compatibility/ram?c=Vermeer#cc) as QVL for my mobo + CPU combo, plus it's b-die, plus the ns delay is faster (3200MHz CL14 brings it to 8.75, while the one you suggested with 3600MHz and CL17 is 9.4).

You still don't understand.

 

The more memory you install, the lower the frequency expectations you should have. 

If you can get 64GB to run past 3000mhz even with B-Die, that would be pretty slick.

 

The problem is between the memory controller and the motherboard.

Even at 32GB, your frequency is even diminished compared to 16gb 2x8s. 

 

Expectations

3733mhz+ 16gb 2x8

3200mhz+ 32gb 2x16

2933mhz~ 64gb 4x16

Jedec Frequencies with non registered ECC and 128gb of memory, so 2667mhz or less frequency.

(Round about figures, some people higher ** experience overclockers, some much lower frequencies. ** unexperienced overclockers) 

 

Lower the frequency expectations. No point to over buy either. Can you even utilize 32gb let alone 64gb of memory??

If you are just gaming, get a nice set of 2x8gb and go for the performance instead. 

[freeagent]

Not only that but each board handles 1r and 2r differently. I like how MSI tells you outright what to expect when it comes to speeds and ranking  on their boards. Asus made me guess.. and I was wrong :D

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, freeagent said:

Not only that but each board handles 1r and 2r differently. I like how MSI tells you outright what to expect when it comes to speeds and ranking  on their boards. Asus made me guess.. and I was wrong

We really could say that for each piece of hardware I suppose as well. 

You would bin AMD IMC the same as you would Intel.