Future of 4K gaming

[MzCatieB]

Most of the people on this forum fit into that category. People that want the best gaming and viewing experience are gonna be the people that will spend the money.

most people on these forums will most likly move towards a better graphics card and a better build than just a monitor

[aissixtir]

Cant wait to 4k game.... but what is 4k gaming ? :/

 

hmm i google it and its a even-more-resolution.

 

 

 

But I have one question and if someone could answer this, i will much appreciate it. 

 

When I watch 1080p videos on my laptop on youtube, it`s not very clean and I need to make it fullscreen. The same happens with high definition pictures..

 

But that makes me wonder, does the same "problems" comes up in smartphones ? If so that would mean that 4k clips would be unplayable on mobiles.

[Dragon_Cannon]

most people on these forums will most likly move towards a better graphics card and a better build than just a monitor

 

I wasn't just talking about monitors I was talking in general about all hardware. But yes you are right people are moving forward. 

[Dragon_Cannon]

Cant wait to 4k game.... but what is 4k gaming ? :/

 

hmm i google it and its a even-more-resolution.

 

 

 

But I have one question and if someone could answer this, i will much appreciate it. 

 

When I watch 1080p videos on my laptop on youtube, it`s not very clean and I need to make it fullscreen. The same happens with high definition pictures..

 

But that makes me wonder, does the same "problems" comes up in smartphones ? If so that would mean that 4k clips would be unplayable on mobiles.

 

The reason that it appears unclear unless at full screen is due to the fact that it has rendered the 1080p video and then crammed it into the same size space as a 360p video which means that some of the pixels are being cramed together and then averaged so that it fits inside of the window.

 

That same issue is not gonna appear on smartphones for a long time, 4K is only just coming to the consumer market for TV and computer screens which means that it is gonna be a very long time before there are 4K cellphones. But if you are talking about walking a 4K video as apposed to a 720p video on a cellphone that has a 720p screen then you should not be able to tell the difference between them as the phone cannot manufacture pixels to change how it looks so it will be stuck at 720p quality even if it is a 4K video.

[Nicktrance]

Okay .. imagine 4K is standard. a 24" or 27" 4k screen would be the one you're using for gaming. So you really think you need AA then?

 

I bet if you give it enough time people will start to notice the difference as they get used to the higher quality. Similar to how some people used to say AA isn't really necessary with 1080p and now most peope use 4xAA (or more if they can). Also I wouldn't be surprised if the jump to 4K would also involve a jump in screen size, similar to 1080p and 2560x1600/1440, I mean most 27"ers are still 1080p.

 

What I hope would happen would be that the current average screen sizes (22"/24") would move to 2560x1600/1440 and larger screens (27"/30") would move to 4K, hopefully mainstream notebook display will also (FINALLY) make the jump to 1080p but all that will require optimization for the UI otherwise it would be unusable.

[Dragon_Cannon]

I bet if you give it enough time people will start to notice the difference as they get used to the higher quality. Similar to how some people used to say AA isn't really necessary with 1080p and now most peope use 4xAA (or more if they can). Also I wouldn't be surprised if the jump to 4K would also involve a jump in screen size, similar to 1080p and 2560x1600/1440, I mean most 27"ers are still 1080p.

 

What I hope would happen would be that the current average screen sizes (22"/24") would move to 2560x1600/1440 and larger screens (27"/30") would move to 4K, hopefully mainstream notebook display will also (FINALLY) make the jump to 1080p but all that will require optimization for the UI otherwise it would be unusable.

 

You make a fair point, screens are no longer expensive to manufacture it is the electronics that go into that make it expensive.

 

So feasibly we could 4K screens that don't cost much more than what is one the market and like you said with the screen sizes moving down would also make AA eventually obsolete because the density of the pixels would be so high that you would have to struggle to see the jaggies.  

 

The ideal future for screen sizes would be 

13"-17" 1080p/1200p

20"-24" 2560x1440 or 2560x1600

27"-30" 4K

 

The first two are already doable but the manufactures are sitting so high on there high horses that they won't do it because it could mean that they might lose money in the short run. But in the long run as the technology needs evolve there will be a much higher adoption rate and they will make more money.

[JordanMac]

would love to game at 4k however it would have to be at a 30" + screen size or i would find it useless. i'll buy a 4k monitor when the price comes down or i win the lottery :)

[rossi94]

4K oled 240 hz <1ms response time 27" 2 mm black aluminium bezel, what would you pay for that?

[heineygoat]

i expect 2 maybe 3 more generations before graphics cards can handle 4k res's. then again im sure most people wont want to spend £1k+ on a monitor (saying that im saving for a £3.5k monitor)

The cards can already handle 4k resolution. I have one 7970 and I play all my AAA titles on max settings with good FPS in Eyefinity (5760 x 1080), thats 75% of 4k resolution.

[Nicktrance]

The first two are already doable but the manufactures are sitting so high on there high horses that they won't do it because it could mean that they might lose money in the short run. But in the long run as the technology needs evolve there will be a much higher adoption rate and they will make more money.

 

I would have expected them to suddenly realise they need to release notebook better resolution displays when Apple released their retina macbook models, instead they're still resting on their laurels...

[Dragon_Cannon]

4K oled 240 hz <1ms response time 27" 2 mm black aluminium bezel, what would you pay for that?

 

The question is not what you would pay it is what wouldn't you. If I could get my hands on one of those I would spend far too much money on it but saying that, if it lasted for 10 years it would be a good investment of money because the only place that 4K can go it upwards from here.

[Dragon_Cannon]

I would have expected them to suddenly realise they need to release notebook better resolution displays when Apple released their retina macbook models, instead they're still resting on their laurels..

 

People are not gonna move towards macs anytime soon because they are not only expensive they are different from what people are used to and when it comes to computers it is only enthusiastic that are gonna be the people that are willing to try new and interesting things and there are not enough of us out there to influence the market in the way that we would like and have things that are useful and beneficial developed that what the normal consumer wants which is what happens and is not always the best thing.

 

If everyone went out and bought a macbook that has a retina display tomorrow because of the retina display then we would see the market shift quite rapidly to accommodation the need high res high density displays. The problem is thought that this is not going to happen which is why the manufactures are sitting on there laurels.

[aissixtir]

Guys while this monitors becomes more high resolution. I question myself why dont they evolve glasses-type-of-monitor. Like the PErsonal 3d Viewer if I am not mistaken. 

 

I wonder why we still use monitors really as computers become more and more personal machines.

[kingduqc]

You'd still want AA on 4K. That's why PCPer.com enabled it in their benchmarks.

They where sitting a 55 inch tv on the desk and playing close as a pc monitor... 30 inch would be a totally different Story. The problem is really gpu power, they where getting 40 fps on sli 680. Still a few years from now to see 300$ card running those resolution. 

[Dragon_Cannon]

They where sitting a 55 inch tv on the desk and playing close as a pc monitor... 30 inch would be a totally different Story. The problem is really gpu power, they where getting 40 fps on sli 680. Still a few years from now to see 300$ card running those resolution. 

 

This is true. It takes years for the tech that is currently at the $1000 level to filter down to the $300 level. If you are willing to spend $400 - $500 that maybe able to run them at some decent frame rates maybe not in the next generation but almost certainly in the one after that.

 

From the testing though we can see that frame buffer(memory) was the issue in most of these tests. The 7970 is not that much faster than the 680 but it is destroying it due to that larger frame buffer.

[Nicktrance]

People are not gonna move towards macs anytime soon because they are not only expensive they are different from what people are used to and when it comes to computers it is only enthusiastic that are gonna be the people that are willing to try new and interesting things and there are not enough of us out there to influence the market in the way that we would like and have things that are useful and beneficial developed that what the normal consumer wants which is what happens and is not always the best thing.

 

If everyone went out and bought a macbook that has a retina display tomorrow because of the retina display then we would see the market shift quite rapidly to accommodation the need high res high density displays. The problem is thought that this is not going to happen which is why the manufactures are sitting on there laurels.

True, but it definitely sucks considering most >1000 EUR  laptops still have 1366x768 displays...

[TechFan@ic]

They where sitting a 55 inch tv on the desk and playing close as a pc monitor... 30 inch would be a totally different Story. The problem is really gpu power, they where getting 40 fps on sli 680. Still a few years from now to see 300$ card running those resolution. 

That's how I'd use it as well, as a PC desk monitor I don't care how big it is, I wouldn't buy a 4K monitor to stare at it from a distance because what's the point ?

You have to get closer to appreciate the pixel density.

It'd be great to sit 3 to 4 feet away from a 4K monitor, very immersive when you're playing games or watching movies.

[Dragon_Cannon]

That's how I'd use it as well, as a PC desk monitor I don't care how big it is, I wouldn't buy a 4K monitor to stare at it from a distance because what's the point ?

You have to get closer to appreciate the pixel density.

It'd be great to sit 3 to 4 feet away from a 4K monitor, very immersive when you're playing games or watching movies.

 

But imagine that curved LG TV but at 4K res, it would make it even more immersive and it would be amazing to use because it is 4K

[mvitkun]

What's the point though of playing on 4K ? it's very hard to justify , especially since most games are designed for 720p (the consoles are to blame for this) & that's why the textures on most games look atrocious on 1920x1080 & it gets even worse on 2560x1440.

With the new consoles, the majority of games will be designed for 1080p though so that should improve the situation just slightly, but it's still way too soon for gaming on 4K, we need the content for it to come out first.

 

 

I think you mean averaging 2-3 FPS better than the 680 in almost all situations, not averaging 2-3 FPS because that is "for lack of a better term" a slide show.

exactly what I was thinking about the 4K content.

 

also noticed the 2-3 fps,assumed it meant that the 7970 was 2-3fps behind the Titan,but it does make more sense that he'd mean 2-3 fps ahead of the GTX 680

[rossi94]

I thought about contacting Samsung and LG and request a 27" 4K oled panel with that low response time and start a kickstarter project, but I don't think they will manufacture it even if they can.

[Dragon_Cannon]

One thing that will make 4K easier would be vector based textures. The problem with that though is that they are a long way off from being able to do something like this because the processing power needed to do this is insane. In the future when graphics cards are faster this maybe a reality.

 

For those that don't know what vector based graphics are, it is an image or texture where each pixel has a mathematical relationship to every other pixel, this means that there would be no loss of quality at larger sizes.

[Dragon_Cannon]

I thought about contacting Samsung and LG and request a 27" 4K oled panel with that low response time and start a kickstarter project, but I don't think they will manufacture it even if they can.

 

I would imagine that they could already do it because they both have oled panels or could get them quite easily and they are made in huge sheets and then cut for phone and computer screens. But what I cant see is them investing in the electronics that they would need to go behind them any time soon.

[rossi94]

They don't have to, the controller can be manufactured and designed by someone else. I thought about a aluminium unibody case in black, with a 100mm x 100mm vesa mount and a 2mm bezel. I will try to get more infos and create a 3d model after I finished my exams.

 

I would use thunderbolt because display port can't drive that refresh rates on this resulution. But someone has to design a PCIe thunderbolt card with @ least 3 port running an Intel controller.

 

More recherche has to be done ...

[Dragon_Cannon]

They don't have to, the controller can be manufactured and designed by someone else. I thought about a aluminium unibody case in black, with a 100mm x 100mm vesa mount and a 2mm bezel. I will try to get more infos and create a 3d model after I finished my exams.

 

The controller would be the hardest part to manufacture as very few people outside the industry know how they work or how to make them. And anodized aluminium case wouldn't be cheap either because it would be have to be cut from a solid block that was at least 5mm thick and then have it anodized.

[rossi94]

None said something about anodized :P just thought about a mat finish. Anodized aluminium catches fingerprints and has a kind of glossy texture .. what is not good for a monitors back in my opinion.

 

About the controller. I already designed a 16 bit microprocessor. It's hard but possible. Or we could hire someone to do it.

 

And about the pricing ...

 

http://www.lme.com/en-gb/metals/non-ferrous/aluminium/

 

I hope that clarifies, how cheap aluminium is. Just the manufacturing process can be expensive.