Maxwell TDP

[fringie]

Hey guys,

 

I was just wondering what your thoughts are on the following:

 

We know that Maxwell will be (I should say is) a lot more power efficient that previous graphics cards of the same tier due to the (in the future) die shrink and  (kind of currently) other technologies (wasn't the reason the 750/750 ti is so power efficient because they copied something from GCN 1.0?). So, the cards being more efficient should mean a lower average watt but from what I've noticed with PC components just because a a component is more efficient doesn't mean that the TDP will be lower. Do you guys think we will get a lower TDP with the new cards vs the cards they replace (I'm genuinely interested in this matter). Will we maybe be seeing 8 pin powered 860's?

 

This should also mean that less heat is produced = quieter graphics cards, right? As fans spin at a higher RPM than needed so that they can achieve a higher RPM does that mean that the minimum fan RPM will be lowered (thus the higher RPM would be lowered) or will it be left the same as currently (so if the RPM was lowered could this mean quieter idle cards? (of course this matters on the vender etc..)). 

 

I am aware most if not all the information/opinions provided will be speculation but I'm curious and I'd like others opinions on these questions that probably seem pretty boring to others! 

 

P.S. I'm really bad at explaining things so if anything doesn't make sense/you have an improvement to suggest lemme know!

[MegaDave91]

My 780s are inaduible at idle, so can't really improve on that.

[fringie]

My 780s are inaduible at idle, so can't really improve on that.

For you maybe so but for me it's a bit different. The environment I'm in personally is very quiet (when I'm not blasting music) so I can hear the fans of my GPU when it's idling. I'm one of those types that leave there PC on all the time and I find it annoying listening to the fan when I go to sleep. To me, it matters a lot although I know most others it doesn't; usually I see a big flame war when people complain about this.

[MightyUnit]

My guess is that Top Tier cards will continue to have around the same TDP but performance will increase compared to the last gen. 

 

EDIT: Concerning idle noise one idea would be to water cool your CPU and GPU using many and large rads with no fans or slow speed fans. 

[Lays]

For you maybe so but for me it's a bit different. The environment I'm in personally is very quiet (when I'm not blasting music) so I can hear the fans of my GPU when it's idling. I'm one of those types that leave there PC on all the time and I find it annoying listening to the fan when I go to sleep. To me, it matters a lot although I know most others it doesn't; usually I see a big flame war when people complain about this.

 

I agree, anything louder than ambient noises annoy me.  If I'm home alone and browsing forums, gaming or something without listening to music, and I can hear even small noises from my rig, it annoys me. Planning on replacing my HDD with another SSD because of it lol, it makes this strange noise while idling and it drives me insane. (not the spinning because I can hear when it spins up as well)

[slasher0161]

The general consumer cards will almost certainly be lower power draw cards as there will just not be a need for the same tdp limits as current cards and if nvidia doesn't lock the cores down at a hardware level the performance difference could be utterly silly if the same trend the 750/750ti has set continues. The cards i am excited for though is the 880 lightning / K|NGP|N / matrix, i want to see what the architecture can do under ln2 whereby the only limitation is the cherry picked bit of silicon.

You may well even see 860's with only a single 6 pin and 8 pins only being on the SC / OC cards, otherwise the performance gain may be too great and even if it may suck as a consumer that companies intentionally hold the tech back on us it is better in the long term as it keeps the field fairly even. If i didn't explain that well look at all card releases since 7xxx / 6xx series and the performance differential whereby the difference is almost exclusively down to driver optimisation.

The days of seeing ground breaking leaps in technology as far as i can see are gone however for those who only want what will do and not necessarily the latest and greatest this works well for as a card can last several generations now (even if the time between generations is quite small).

[cramved]

they can get more performance for the same wattage classes by pushing clocks higher because they can be afford more power consumption and heat

[fringie]

My guess is that Top Tier cards will continue to have around the same TDP but performance will increase compared to the last gen. 

 

EDIT: Concerning idle noise one idea would be to water cool your CPU and GPU using many and large rads with no fans or slow speed fans. 

I hope that's not the case ! 

Personally, I'm planning on doing so but I'm wondering if Maxwell could make GPU's more acceptable in my circumstance.

 

I agree, anything louder than ambient noises annoy me.  If I'm home alone and browsing forums, gaming or something without listening to music, and I can hear even small noises from my rig, it annoys me. Planning on replacing my HDD with another SSD because of it lol, it makes this strange noise while idling and it drives me insane. (not the spinning because I can hear when it spins up as well)

Somebody that feels my pain! WD Caviar Greens might be a good cheaper solution for yourself. When in their idle state I can't hear any noise from mines at all (I switched my Black for this, no regrets apart from the poo speeds which is fine), it is audible when in use and when it spins up/down. a 2TB SSD might be a bit expensive... Funnily enough I might be replacing my HDD with a 250GB Samsung 840 Evo since there pretty cheap and I only use around 300GB space for all my files (I don't install games that I don't play anymore as I reformat my pc every 6 months), (original reason for replacing it was I wanted to put a monsta rad in my case = no HDD cage which means only SSD mounts).

 

The general consumer cards will almost certainly be lower power draw cards as there will just not be a need for the same tdp limits as current cards and if nvidia doesn't lock the cores down at a hardware level the performance difference could be utterly silly if the same trend the 750/750ti has set continues. The cards i am excited for though is the 880 lightning / K|NGP|N / matrix, i want to see what the architecture can do under ln2 whereby the only limitation is the cherry picked bit of silicon.

You may well even see 860's with only a single 6 pin and 8 pins only being on the SC / OC cards, otherwise the performance gain may be too great and even if it may suck as a consumer that companies intentionally hold the tech back on us it is better in the long term as it keeps the field fairly even. If i didn't explain that well look at all card releases since 7xxx / 6xx series and the performance differential whereby the difference is almost exclusively down to driver optimisation.

The days of seeing ground breaking leaps in technology as far as i can see are gone however for those who only want what will do and not necessarily the latest and greatest this works well for as a card can last several generations now (even if the time between generations is quite small).

What would you estimate the power draw to be like out of curiosity? Those will be interesting cards to look out for, I'm quite excited for the 880 too but I hope new games will take full advantage of the power the new series of cards will be able to offer. 

 

Sli x60's on just one cable will be nice and neat. which will be a nice little benefit. I'd say there is a bit more to them than just driver optimization personally but ofc driver optimization has its part to play in the matter I'm sure.

 

You shouldn't of said that, I'm all teary eyed now.. Maybe light field rendering will become a thing when gaming one day in the future (probably when they can't think of any reasonable ways of improving the cards relatively cheaply).

[fringie]

if your sig is correct then you have a 580. the 500 series just have crappy coolers and were not very effect at all. they down clocked at idle but they still used a lot of power. GTX600/700 cards basically shut off when they are at idle and the fan drops way way down.

 

 

custom fan profiles should fix most noise issues with GPUs though.

That is true however, the fans speed can only go so low i.e. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1040689454 . Until they reduce the max speed the fan speed cannot go lower unless a big change is made/the fan is turned off

[slasher0161]

-snip-

I can't see a reference 860 using more than 150w which means single 6 pin should do, the OC and SC cards will likely have 200w limits so 8 pin. This is pure speculation though the real deciding factor will be what AMD brings to the table, if amd doesn't come up with something amazing that doesn't require an ice-cream freezer to keep under wraps then much lower tdp's and a few % performance increase is likely to happen.

If the do come up with something special I can just see Nvidia enabling a few more cuda cores on each tier and bumping up the tdp's of the cards to account for that, I would not be surprised if they dropped cards like the titan Z purely to keep everyone talking their name while they stall waiting to see what amd's rebuttal will be, lets not forget they can still drop 760ti and a 790 in the mix to delay 800 series so I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see it for a fair while yet plus they have the ace up the sleeve of "low yields are delaying maxwell", I honestly think amd will be the next one to drop a card or two as Nvidia just has no reason to at the moment.

 

*just noticed I get very lazy with sentence structure after night shift but too lazy to fix it, if this bothers anyone I apologize*

[Lays]

snip

 

 

Oh I was only gonna get like a 250 or 500gb ssd to replace it, I don't even have more than 300gb on it lol

[fringie]

I can't see a reference 860 using more than 150w which means single 6 pin should do, the OC and SC cards will likely have 200w limits so 8 pin. This is pure speculation though the real deciding factor will be what AMD brings to the table, if amd doesn't come up with something amazing that doesn't require an ice-cream freezer to keep under wraps then much lower tdp's and a few % performance increase is likely to happen.

If the do come up with something special I can just see Nvidia enabling a few more cuda cores on each tier and bumping up the tdp's of the cards to account for that, I would not be surprised if they dropped cards like the titan Z purely to keep everyone talking their name while they stall waiting to see what amd's rebuttal will be, lets not forget they can still drop 760ti and a 790 in the mix to delay 800 series so I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see it for a fair while yet plus they have the ace up the sleeve of "low yields are delaying maxwell", I honestly think amd will be the next one to drop a card or two as Nvidia just has no reason to at the moment.

 

*just noticed I get very lazy with sentence structure after night shift but too lazy to fix it, if this bothers anyone I apologize*

Bit of an unrelated question but why do most sub 200w cards take 8 + 6 pin for example? Is it separate for the fan or something (I'm curious). I expect AMD to be pushing Nvidia this time round, if not I will be extremely disappointed with them. ..If only using freezers was feezable (I almost made a bad pun there ) solution to cooling rigs. 

 

That sounds like typical Nvidia. Don't say that T.T, the whole reason I was going to go Nvidia was the earlier release date (2014 a pose to AMD's 2015); having a 580 till then will kinda.. suck. On the plus side AMD hopefully will have some nice pricing on their products and for people that want to go Nvidia the prices will be put down probably.

 

Oh I was only gonna get like a 250 or 500gb ssd to replace it, I don't even have more than 300gb on it lol

Oh xDD. The way things are going with games ported from consoles one game will take 500GB so don't chuck the HDD out just yet xDD.

[Lays]

Bit of an unrelated question but why do most sub 200w cards take 8 + 6 pin for example? Is it separate for the fan or something (I'm curious). I expect AMD to be pushing Nvidia this time round, if not I will be extremely disappointed with them. ..If only using freezers was feezable (I almost made a bad pun there ) solution to cooling rigs. 

 

That sounds like typical Nvidia. Don't say that T.T, the whole reason I was going to go Nvidia was the earlier release date (2014 a pose to AMD's 2015); having a 580 till then will kinda.. suck. On the plus side AMD hopefully will have some nice pricing on their products and for people that want to go Nvidia the prices will be put down probably.

 

Oh xDD. The way things are going with games ported from consoles one game will take 500GB so don't chuck the HDD out just yet xDD.

 

 

I have decently speedy net, so I usually only install the games I play most often, then if I want to play one I almost never play I'll download it real quick and play

[fringie]

I have decently speedy net, so I usually only install the games I play most often, then if I want to play one I almost never play I'll download it real quick and play

It feels like I'm talking to myself, I do the exact same O_O. 

[slasher0161]

It feels like I'm talking to myself, I do the exact same O_O.

Wish i had that luxury, Australian net is useless.

[fringie]

Wish i had that luxury, Australian net is useless.

Hang in there! As times goes on internet speeds + bandwidth can only get better.. I'm sure Google fibre or another company will (eventually) scare Australian ISPs into upgrading the infrastructure.

[slasher0161]

Hang in there! As times goes on internet speeds + bandwidth can only get better.. I'm sure Google fibre or another company will (eventually) scare Australian ISPs into upgrading the infrastructure.

The problem is the government doesn't give a toss, i am literally 3min (7 in peak hour traffic) from the cbd here in cairns and am forced to pay $95/month for 15gb of shitty wireless internet, it used to be cheaper to use my phones internet and a few other people must have been doing similar because they cut mobile data right back, used to recharge $30 and get 3gb of data + everything else and could buy additional data for f/a... That has been closed up now.

The worst part was i was looking at studying again externally and the response from the communications minister was "well we don't own it and cant do jack so move is your only option" (paraphrased 3 page letter) like fuck i am moving with only $1500 left on the mortgage and another 6 years to pay that. Seriously have considered paying for someones internet across the road on the condition i can run a hard line across the road to get access to it (would be saving money after the second month including the cat 6 cable cost).

Yes right across the road can get a wired 25/10 connection and 500GB of data for $30 more a month then what i am paying for wireless, why because Australia (eta on this house getting a wired connection 21st june 2021).

[fringie]

The problem is the government doesn't give a toss, i am literally 3min (7 in peak hour traffic) from the cbd here in cairns and am forced to pay $95/month for 15gb of shitty wireless internet, it used to be cheaper to use my phones internet and a few other people must have been doing similar because they cut mobile data right back, used to recharge $30 and get 3gb of data + everything else and could buy additional data for f/a... That has been closed up now.

The worst part was i was looking at studying again externally and the response from the communications minister was "well we don't own it and cant do jack so move is your only option" (paraphrased 3 page letter) like fuck i am moving with only $1500 left on the mortgage and another 6 years to pay that. Seriously have considered paying for someones internet across the road on the condition i can run a hard line across the road to get access to it (would be saving money after the second month including the cat 6 cable cost).

Yes right across the road can get a wired 25/10 connection and 500GB of data for $30 more a month then what i am paying for wireless, why because Australia (eta on this house getting a wired connection 21st june 2021).

Damn $95 for bad internet. Your in a really not so good situation ;x.