[HELP] Attach an external Noctua fan to a 10Gbe switch

[kriegalex]

Hi,

 

I am buying a Mikrotik CRS309 with 8xSFP+  and need to add extra cooling to it. As per MikroTik instructions, when using a RJ-45 10G transceiver, you need to add cooling, especially with passive cooled switches. How would I go about attaching to the switch or putting next to it a Noctua fan pointed at the switch, so that the transceiver is cooled ?

 

END TLDR

 

I had expected that this was an easy thing, but apparently using computer fans outside a computer is still quite a "hacky" thing to do and mainly reserved for the DIY community. Any "newbie" solution ready to go ? I don't want to buy a Wish USB fan.... And a 120mm 5V Noctua fan could add fantastic cooling to the CRS309 passively cooled switch. 

 

• Why do I need the transceiver ? 
  Because my ISP router is 10G with RJ-45.
• Why do I not buy a RJ-45 Switch ?
  1) they are usually more expensive or not as feature/port rich as this one for the same price
  2) when they have fans, they are usually too noisy for an office use, despite the claims of "silence" from ServeTheHome reviews, i.e. on the XS708T. All the feedback from my local e-tailer say that most fans are not that loud, but they all have annoying pitches.
• Why don't you put a 40mm Noctua fan inside ? 
  Since this unit is passively cooled, I don't think that they left any 3pin/PWM port inside, at least you can't see any in the STH review.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by kriegalex
add more details

[Windows7ge]

Looking up this switch the PCB does have the holes for a 4 pin fan but the connector isn't soldered in.

 

If you're up for using a multi-meter and a soldering iron you could drive a fan off this unit. Otherwise you can Power any 5V fan off a USB charger. Just splice the fan wires or make your own USB to fan header adapter.

[kriegalex]

5 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

Looking up this switch the PCB does have the holes for a 4 pin fan but the connector isn't soldered in.

 

If you're up for using a multi-meter and a soldering iron you could drive a fan off this unit. Otherwise you can Power any 5V fan off a USB charger. Just splice the fan wires or make your own USB to fan header adapter.

Thanks for the answer. In the meantime, I've been investigating a bit more and it seems the USB problem is solved when buying a Noctua 5V. Now what I need is a 3D printed thing to put the fan somewhere around the switch or hold it on an arm.

[kriegalex]

For anyone looking, I found this : https://www.in-win.com/en/cooling/mars

 

In a perfect world, you could just buy the stand and put any fan on it, like Noctuas. It is gonna be good enough I guess

[Alex Atkin UK]

Seems to me Mikrotik should have just included a darn fan and just made enabling it optional in the UI.   This is a really stupid situation to be in that you can fit an SFP+ adapter that might overheat, that's plain bad design.

[jasonvp]

17 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Seems to me Mikrotik should have just included a darn fan and just made enabling it optional in the UI.   This is a really stupid situation to be in that you can fit an SFP+ adapter that might overheat, that's plain bad design.

 

Welcome to a world where costs are cut as much as possible so the end user can afford 10GigE networking.  If you don't want to concern yourself with such nonsense, buy a real switch.  That'll cost a grand or two.  And come with internal, noisy fans.

 

10GigE is hot.  Hot, hot, hot.  Specially copper 10Gig.  Note the overwhelming cooling on the inside of that Cisco small-office 10Gig switch.  Specially that big, honkin heat sink covering the copper ports' interface on the PCB.

 

 

 

[kasugatei]

On 4/15/2021 at 10:44 PM, kriegalex said:

Since this unit is passively cooled, I don't think that they left any 3pin/PWM port inside, at least you can't see any in the STH review.

There are no pin headers, but there are definitely PCB traces for the fan. It is even labeled as fan. 
Speaking of it, one should use multimeter and check that there is indeed power for the fan before turning soldering iron on. 

[kriegalex]

On 4/16/2021 at 4:48 PM, jasonvp said:

 

Welcome to a world where costs are cut as much as possible so the end user can afford 10GigE networking.  If you don't want to concern yourself with such nonsense, buy a real switch.  That'll cost a grand or two.  And come with internal, noisy fans.

 

10GigE is hot.  Hot, hot, hot.  Specially copper 10Gig.  Note the overwhelming cooling on the inside of that Cisco small-office 10Gig switch.  Specially that big, honkin heat sink covering the copper ports' interface on the PCB.

I would have gladly spent 500$ on a "real" switch, like a XS708T from Netgear, with appropriate cooling and "big, honkin" heatsinks, but having this fan pitch is not possible for me, in a SoHo environment. And from my research, it doesn't get that much better in terms of noise than a XS708T. All the others seem to be either same noise or louder. 

 

I know that most homelab enthusiasts in the USA own a house and have a man cave, but that is not that easy around here (average house costs ~1M).

Edited April 20, 2021 by kriegalex
add details

[jasonvp]

1 hour ago, kriegalex said:

I would have gladly spent 500$ on a "real" switch, like a XS708T from Netgear, with appropriate cooling and "big, honkin" heatsinks, but having this fan pitch is not possible for me, in a SoHo environment. And from my research, it doesn't get that much better in terms of noise than a XS708T. All the others seem to be either same noise or louder.

 

I wouldn't consider the Netgear switches "real".  I was referring to rack-mounted Cisco small office switches.  Either way, there are usually fan replacement kits available that are much quieter.  In fact that photo I took was right after I replaced the OEM fans in that switch with a kit.  The OEM ones were obnoxiously loud but the replacements are very quiet.

 

[kriegalex]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:21 PM, jasonvp said:

 

I wouldn't consider the Netgear switches "real".  I was referring to rack-mounted Cisco small office switches.  Either way, there are usually fan replacement kits available that are much quieter.  In fact that photo I took was right after I replaced the OEM fans in that switch with a kit.  The OEM ones were obnoxiously loud but the replacements are very quiet.

 

Very subjective: I don't think that having 10G for a media server with some spare bandwidth for bufferbloat free gaming is worth spending 1K+ on a switch/router... Also, STH reviewed the XS708T as "very quiet" from factory, so I would image it has something similar to your replacement kit for Cisco. Yet, everyone using this in a SoHo environment (and not in a proper "Linus type mancave") is complaining about the fan noise pitch, even if it's not that loud.

I would rather buy a 3090 with the money (but not from scalpers).

I just tested the CRS309 + Rj-45 transceiver (MikroTik S+RJ10) with and without a small fan blowing on the transceiver. It is on a 1G connection though, so not as hot as 10G (I'm not yet at my new place with 10G WAN):

• with fan : ~47C (for the SFP transceiver)
• without fan: ~60C (for the SFP transceiver)

Not much traffic going through it at 1G and already 60C, damn

Edited April 21, 2021 by kriegalex
give transceiver info

[jasonvp]

4 minutes ago, kriegalex said:

Very subjective: I don't think that having 10G for a media server with some spare bandwidth for bufferbloat free gaming is worth spending 1K+ on a switch/router.

 

That's fine.  I made the "executive decision" in December of '19 to 10G-ify my home.  With that, I spent somewhere around $3K on two Cisco small office 10G switches.  One a 12-port and the other a 16-port.  The latter is in my basement where my servers and router are.  The former up here in my office (which is a bedroom), in the closet.  To me: worth it.  Easily.  I have different means than you do, though.

 

Quote

.. Also, STH reviewed the XS708T as "very quiet" from factory, so I would image it has something similar to your replacement kit for Cisco. Yet, everyone using this in a SoHo environment (and not in a proper "Linus type mancave") is complaining about the fan noise pitch, even if it's not that loud.

 

Fan noise sensitivity is an individual thing, which is why you simply can not take a reviewer's word for it.  Ever.  Their ears are not picking up what yours are, and vice versa.  I'm hyper-sensitive to high freqs, even in my old age (two more years and I'm 50!)  Fan noise falls right in line with that and it's awfully annoying to me.  The replacement fans for that Cisco switch are just slower; that's all.  They spin at a much slower RPM, but still move plenty of air into, through, and out of the switch to keep the heat sinks functioning properly.

 

Quote

 

I just tested the CRS309 with and without a small fan blowing on it on a 1G connection though, so not as hot as 10G:

with fan : ~47C

without fan: ~60C

Not much traffic going through it at 1G and already 60C, damn

 

 

That's a bit toasty.  The common 10Gig chip is the Aquantia thing, and that little sucker is HOT stuff.  I wonder if that's what Mikrotik put in their switches?  I was using a desktop Thunderbolt-3 to 10Gig adapter for my Macbook Pro for a short while.  That from CalDigit.  Its entire exterior is one, giant heat sink.  It got warm to the touch, but what I mean by that is ~40*C or so.  Never in the 60s like that.

 

[kriegalex]

22 minutes ago, jasonvp said:

That's a bit toasty.  The common 10Gig chip is the Aquantia thing, and that little sucker is HOT stuff.  I wonder if that's what Mikrotik put in their switches?  I was using a desktop Thunderbolt-3 to 10Gig adapter for my Macbook Pro for a short while.  That from CalDigit.  Its entire exterior is one, giant heat sink.  It got warm to the touch, but what I mean by that is ~40*C or so.  Never in the 60s like that.

 

I had forgotten to specify that it was the CRS309 + the "S+RJ10" transceiver, the transceiver being the thing measured (and known to get hot). Even though my setup is considered "entry level" (CRS309 + CSS610), I'm already not that far from the 500$ of a XS708T, but it is supposedly entirely passive and quiet, and a few extra 1G ports. I'm thinking of retiring this S+RJ10 already and the small cooling fan and buy for now a bulkier quieter media converter, such as this thing:

https://www.delock.com/produkte/1807_Media-Converter/86439/merkmale.html?setLanguage=en

 

It is obviously not something you would do for all 8 ports of the CRS309, but I just want to convert my input 10BASE-T that is mandatory from my ISP router (that can't be put in bridge mode, *$!?$* my country ISPs...)

[Alex Atkin UK]

I have an MS510TXPP and it reports 64C IC temp with a 22C ambient WITH its fan.

 

Its not like the PoE is heavily loaded or I have tons of traffic going over it either.

[kriegalex]

Well, 62C now (for the transceiver, not the switch chipset/CPU). Again, this is not even on 10G, it's only 1G and light traffic....

 

I will edit this later with a printscreen of the temp with the fan.

 

EDIT : 

46C, quite the difference (with a small fan blowing on it). Still 1G with light traffic.

[kriegalex]

Long story short, if anyone ends up here, I advise you do the following :

 

• You want a totally silent setup, then add a media converter for 10G instead of a transceiver to the setup described (CRS309 + CSS610). This is a total of 10x "SFP+" + 8x 1000BASE-T of which 1 SFP+ is a virtual combo port SFP+/10GBASE-T from the media converter. Warning, the media converter costs at least 2x of the transceiver...
• You want native NBASE-T (2.5G/5G) ports for your next shiny PC/server, or you can handle a bit of noise/high pitch ? You don't need more than 8 ports total ? Then get a MS510 or a XS708 from Netgear (XS708 is fully 10G).
• If you want the above, but you want a mix of total silent and native 2.5G, maybe MikroTik will release the 2.5G version of the CSS610, someday, so you need to be patient... You would keep the media converter and the CRS309. In the meantime, the MS510 seems like the closest thing.
• If you want to go the transceiver route, do it with actively cooled switches/routers and don't bother adding extra fans...
• Your ISP provides 10G internet but without some weird auth mechanisms like in XGS-PON ? You can plug your SFP+ directly into a managed device and just select the appropriate VLAN ? Then you don't have to worry about transceivers or media converters, simply get the CRS309...