Looking to upgrade

[ThatNewGuy01211]

Not a lot of knowledge in the audio space, yet atleast. Been doing research and that first led me to the SHP9500s which have been great for my gaming needs for two years. This is what they’ll be used for and for FPS games (valorant, Tarkov, battlefield) so imaging is super important. More recent curiosity and research have lead me to the Monolith m1060,1070s or the Hifiman Sundaras, atleast at this stage. Wondering if anyone has any experience with these or better possibly for the $4-550 range? I also was wondering about the use or need of an amp if I make this step up as I’ve just plugged the ships into my tower and gone with it (although I use Peace EQ’s pre-amp for tarkov). Open backs and planars seem to be the way to go and just trying to get as much feedback as possible before the big purchase. Thanks to anyone for the help

[Entropy.]

3 minutes ago, ThatNewGuy01211 said:

Not a lot of knowledge in the audio space, yet atleast. Been doing research and that first led me to the SHP9500s which have been great for my gaming needs for two years. This is what they’ll be used for and for FPS games (valorant, Tarkov, battlefield) so imaging is super important. More recent curiosity and research have lead me to the Monolith m1060,1070s or the Hifiman Sundaras, atleast at this stage. Wondering if anyone has any experience with these or better possibly for the $4-550 range? I also was wondering about the use or need of an amp if I make this step up as I’ve just plugged the ships into my tower and gone with it (although I use Peace EQ’s pre-amp for tarkov). Open backs and planars seem to be the way to go and just trying to get as much feedback as possible before the big purchase. Thanks to anyone for the help

It'll depend on each headphone, most of the mentioned above probably will want at least an amp, but something like a schitt magni 3 or heresay for $100 should be fine. You might like the Beyerdynamic Tygr's for your use case. 

[ThatNewGuy01211]

2 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

It'll depend on each headphone, most of the mentioned above probably will want at least an amp, but something like a schitt magni 3 or heresay for $100 should be fine. You might like the Beyerdynamic Tygr's for your use case. 

I will definitely look into those and some amps. The more I kept looking the more I keep seeing amps mentioned so I figured we may stumble into needing to buy one of those as well lol

[Entropy.]

3 minutes ago, ThatNewGuy01211 said:

I will definitely look into those and some amps. The more I kept looking the more I keep seeing amps mentioned so I figured we may stumble into needing to buy one of those as well lol

For cheap amps that can power basically anything, Schitt's magni and JBL's atom are the standard. There are others of course, but the two mentioned are the amps that are generally recommended the most. 

[Tigerleon]

8 minutes ago, ThatNewGuy01211 said:

I will definitely look into those and some amps. The more I kept looking the more I keep seeing amps mentioned so I figured we may stumble into needing to buy one of those as well lol

I'd strongly recommend the Sound Blaster G6 since the support for the software has been great recently. The DAC in it is great and the amp will power any dynamic headphone fine.

[Entropy.]

8 minutes ago, Tigerleon said:

I'd strongly recommend the Sound Blaster G6 since the support for the software has been great recently. The DAC in it is great and the amp will power any dynamic headphone fine.

Can't find where it shows how much power it can push, it just says it can go from 1-600ohms. Not super confident in it, not at least for the claims it makes at the price, with the lack of details. 

[ThatNewGuy01211]

3 hours ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

Can't find where it shows how much power it can push, it just says it can go from 1-600ohms. Not super confident in it, not at least for the claims it makes at the price, with the lack of details. 

Anything and everything mentioned in this thread will be undergoing various YouTube review videos lol so a lot will be based on those. Midway through a video on these Tygrs and I see the only place to get just them and not the mic combo is straight from the source. Secondarily I see they are out of stock :(. I will continue to watch the review as I’m genuinely interested. A couple of development questions.

-Should I get an amp or amp/dac combo to start? All mentioned seem like very well reviewed places to start

-Should I look for one that has headphone only or headphone and mic combo? And does having both inputs take away from what it will do to/for the headphones? 
-My first round of research found generally that surround and gaming aren’t exactly the cream of the crop. Or maybe that’s just my not so knowledgeable takeaway from it. Should I stray from something like the G6 or am I completely ignorant in what I’m saying and thinking that would translate into my shps or what I purchase?

 -Lastly $199 to $299 or $349, tygrs to maybe m1070 price, would that justify sound quality? Could 1070s blow the tygrs away? I’m looking to make a biggish jump (I know audio can get silly expensive) so I’m looking for something mind blowing if such a thing exists for gaming purposes. 
 

Sorry I feel like that’s a ton of stuff to throw out there but with more knowledge I feel these are necessary questions

[rice guru]

5 hours ago, ThatNewGuy01211 said:

Not a lot of knowledge in the audio space, yet atleast. Been doing research and that first led me to the SHP9500s which have been great for my gaming needs for two years. This is what they’ll be used for and for FPS games (valorant, Tarkov, battlefield) so imaging is super important. More recent curiosity and research have lead me to the Monolith m1060,1070s or the Hifiman Sundaras, atleast at this stage. Wondering if anyone has any experience with these or better possibly for the $4-550 range? I also was wondering about the use or need of an amp if I make this step up as I’ve just plugged the ships into my tower and gone with it (although I use Peace EQ’s pre-amp for tarkov). Open backs and planars seem to be the way to go and just trying to get as much feedback as possible before the big purchase. Thanks to anyone for the help

If imaging is super important I actually find the Sundara or the DT 1990 to be the best in this price range particularly the 1990 which on sale can drop to this price. Both headphones can work without an amp but both will benefit greatly with an amp. The 1060 has an awful sounding ringing that can throw you off in game. And the 1070 is actually pretty good I just prefer the other 2. The Sundara is great for layering and the wide soundstage. The 1990 is very precise and has a more pin point accuracy to the soundstage.

[ThatNewGuy01211]

47 minutes ago, rice guru said:

If imaging is super important I actually find the Sundara or the DT 1990 to be the best in this price range particularly the 1990 which on sale can drop to this price. Both headphones can work without an amp but both will benefit greatly with an amp. The 1060 has an awful sounding ringing that can throw you off in game. And the 1070 is actually pretty good I just prefer the other 2. The Sundara is great for layering and the wide soundstage. The 1990 is very precise and has a more pin point accuracy to the soundstage.

Yea definitely feeling the 1070 and the sundaras at this point. There are some other in that price range too but don’t have too much on them yet as far as comparison and or gaming. Thanks everyone for the responses so far!!

[Derkoli]

5 hours ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

Can't find where it shows how much power it can push, it just says it can go from 1-600ohms. Not super confident in it, not at least for the claims it makes at the price, with the lack of details. 

It actually measures pretty damn well.

 

 

 

 

Then it achieves 120dB of Dynamic Range with the AES17 testing methodology.

 

EDIT:

 

Thought I should just add this here, for transparency:

 

It is a great product, aslong as you don't feed it a very loud signal. But this isn't a huge issue, as any decent digital volume control will have such little THD+N that it becomes negligible.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Derkoli

[Psittac]

5 hours ago, ThatNewGuy01211 said:

Anything and everything mentioned in this thread will be undergoing various YouTube review videos lol so a lot will be based on those. Midway through a video on these Tygrs and I see the only place to get just them and not the mic combo is straight from the source. Secondarily I see they are out of stock :(. I will continue to watch the review as I’m genuinely interested. A couple of development questions.

-Should I get an amp or amp/dac combo to start? All mentioned seem like very well reviewed places to start

-Should I look for one that has headphone only or headphone and mic combo? And does having both inputs take away from what it will do to/for the headphones? 
-My first round of research found generally that surround and gaming aren’t exactly the cream of the crop. Or maybe that’s just my not so knowledgeable takeaway from it. Should I stray from something like the G6 or am I completely ignorant in what I’m saying and thinking that would translate into my shps or what I purchase?

 -Lastly $199 to $299 or $349, tygrs to maybe m1070 price, would that justify sound quality? Could 1070s blow the tygrs away? I’m looking to make a biggish jump (I know audio can get silly expensive) so I’m looking for something mind blowing if such a thing exists for gaming purposes. 
 

Sorry I feel like that’s a ton of stuff to throw out there but with more knowledge I feel these are necessary questions

oh there is so SO MUCH you can do with a budget of $400-550 (audio freaks always push the mentioned budget).

 

I think there are two routes to go here, wait three that would stay in budget

 

1: Easy to drive headphones running onboard

2: Cheaper headphones that can appreciate an entire chain (dac and amp)

3: either of the two above options with reduced selections to throw in an attachable mic.

 

1: Without a doubt is the HarmonicDyne Zeus which is currently my drool factor cans and then some. Zeos and DMS both drool over it, and the imaging, sound stage and separation is mind blowing.  They just don't measure well and are more of a "fun" headphone so not studio in any way.  They are oh..... oh so comfortable and gorgeous, did I mention they will run off anything? (phone was lagging out today so I can't confirm phone usage).  I'm going to do an A/B/C/D comparison with these for onboard, single ended, balanced and tube but I just haven't wanted to get away from the simple single ended amp and it's been a week.  Ok I won't gush about these any more.  (The only time I've had the slightest desire to take them off is when I wanted to listen to some eprom on my T50rp or some grimes on my dt880-600)

 

2:  This is the option with limitless potential and would be by far the best if you are interested in making audio a hobby.  You can get a $100-150 dac and a $100-250 amp or a dac/amp combo then you have $150-350 for a pair of can's.  There is virtually limitless options for this price point

 

3:  I would say that the Phillips Fidelio X2HR or X3 or HD Zeus with a mod mic or vmoda boom mic would be perfect for onboard and the Hifiman HE400i and a mod mic dac and amp would be perfect.  Both the Zeus and he400i are going to be great for comm's as they're very open, with the he400i being almost unimpeded to the outside world and the zeus acceptable.  Then budget $50-100 for what ever can+dac+amp you come up with

[ThatNewGuy01211]

31 minutes ago, Psittac said:

oh there is so SO MUCH you can do with a budget of $400-550 (audio freaks always push the mentioned budget).

 

I think there are two routes to go here, wait three that would stay in budget

 

1: Easy to drive headphones running onboard

2: Cheaper headphones that can appreciate an entire chain (dac and amp)

3: either of the two above options with reduced selections to throw in an attachable mic.

 

1: Without a doubt is the HarmonicDyne Zeus which is currently my drool factor cans and then some. Zeos and DMS both drool over it, and the imaging, sound stage and separation is mind blowing.  They just don't measure well and are more of a "fun" headphone so not studio in any way.  They are oh..... oh so comfortable and gorgeous, did I mention they will run off anything? (phone was lagging out today so I can't confirm phone usage).  I'm going to do an A/B/C/D comparison with these for onboard, single ended, balanced and tube but I just haven't wanted to get away from the simple single ended amp and it's been a week.  Ok I won't gush about these any more.  (The only time I've had the slightest desire to take them off is when I wanted to listen to some eprom on my T50rp or some grimes on my dt880-600)

 

2:  This is the option with limitless potential and would be by far the best if you are interested in making audio a hobby.  You can get a $100-150 dac and a $100-250 amp or a dac/amp combo then you have $150-350 for a pair of can's.  There is virtually limitless options for this price point

 

3:  I would say that the Phillips Fidelio X2HR or X3 or HD Zeus with a mod mic or vmoda boom mic would be perfect for onboard and the Hifiman HE400i and a mod mic dac and amp would be perfect.  Both the Zeus and he400i are going to be great for comm's as they're very open, with the he400i being almost unimpeded to the outside world and the zeus acceptable.  Then budget $50-100 for what ever can+dac+amp you come up with

What a post! And funny you mention the HarmonicDynes as they were my third competitor to the m1070 and Sundaras. Been also packing ALOT of zeos the past few days, and some Josh Valour. Definitely may go with those. I have noticed my pc’s onboard has an “ultimate” option that amplifies a bit, a tiny bit but noticeable, and that paired with the Peace Eq wasn’t terrible. Would I be able to use my existing vmoda with the Zeus or maybe get an Atlion or something? I do definitely need to look at amp and dac and combo reviews to get a decently general idea of those as well. I keep hearing zeos mention a balanced cable and don’t quite get that part yet, but I can find videos on that also. Thank you guys so much for the help, exciting stuff!

[Psittac]

59 minutes ago, ThatNewGuy01211 said:

What a post! And funny you mention the HarmonicDynes as they were my third competitor to the m1070 and Sundaras. Been also packing ALOT of zeos the past few days, and some Josh Valour. Definitely may go with those. I have noticed my pc’s onboard has an “ultimate” option that amplifies a bit, a tiny bit but noticeable, and that paired with the Peace Eq wasn’t terrible. Would I be able to use my existing vmoda with the Zeus or maybe get an Atlion or something? I do definitely need to look at amp and dac and combo reviews to get a decently general idea of those as well. I keep hearing zeos mention a balanced cable and don’t quite get that part yet, but I can find videos on that also. Thank you guys so much for the help, exciting stuff!

Out of my 6 pairs of headphones the Zeus is by far the best for gaming and comm's.

 

When you watch Zeos be sure to remember that he loves 95% of everything audio, but when he absolutely loves something it's going to be a winner.  I get the mindset because out of everything I have I love each of them just differently for each so unless something is horrible I find it hard to find fault.

 

With the vmoda I honestly am not sure, the zeus is 3.5mm on each side so maybe the vmoda could pass the audio through and still work for comms?  If not the modmic uni is only $50 plus a 3.5mm extension incase you need more space.

 

I am thinking that the Zeus will scale well with a dac and amp, but this is something I don't fully understand myself.  I know when I like something but lack the discipline to A/B test and define why that is.  On top of that auditory memory is very limited and subjective by nature so I think it's hard to do such comparisons.  I just like to go with how something makes me feel instead.  There would be benefit to an amp and dac for the Zeus or any headphone really.  I have a working theory that I don't know how to express, but I know for a fact that making something loud enough and making it properly loud are NOT the same thing.  Onboard will suffice but there is certainly something to be said about going external.  With all of that said there are diminishing returns and snake oil.  What is diminishing and what is snake oil can come down to your ears and brain and in the case of snake oil more the brain than anything.  In the end if it's something you enjoy then by all means.

 

To the point of going balanced, everyone has differing opinions.  What I can say for sure is that it's easier to power a pair of headphones through balanced on the same amp as single ended, if for no other reason than everything is doubled on a balanced amp.  For me, I find it a little more clear and crisp going between single ended at a higher DB and balanced at a lower DB.

 

Keep in mind that price to performance is exponentially loosing on audio.  That's why I choose to go with multiple different experiences than one "refined" experience.  Not sure if I have the physiology to appreciate high end stuff and also it's my nature to want to change it up.  So I have leader's in their own field.  6xx is the definition of intimate and warm. 400i is open and flat.  880-600 is a smash in the face and t50rp changes drastically with every change (from face smashing bass, to extremely detailed and sharp highs).  I just like variety.

 

As to the point of actually going balanced, you usually need a balanced cable, and I'll save you some time looking around and drop the names "periapt cables" and "Hart Audio Cables", each of which does a more than sufficient job in a different approach.

 

Someone on a hifi forum once told me that you don't know what the next level is until you've experienced it, then looking back you understand how much or little of a change it was.  Hifi is a journey