Should I use an AIO or go custom cooling?

[Matgarciaz]

Referencing my own post 

TLDR: I dont think my AIO is cutting it for overclocking my i9 7900x. Im getting 89C when stress testing and cine is giving me 109C @ 4.5Ghz 1.2V.

 

I'm thinking about maybe creating a hard tubed build. But I dont know where to start , is it even worth it? (Im going to read sticky, already started but wanted to get this post out there). Or should I just buy a stronger AIO and save the troubles? On idle @ 4.5 Im already at 57C. It makes no sense. Im currently running a Corsair H100i. Keep in mind I only have 1 fan (other than the AIO fans) and thats at the back of the case to blow out hot air.

[For Science!]

6 minutes ago, Matgarciaz said:

Referencing my own post 

TLDR: I dont think my AIO is cutting it for overclocking my i9 7900x. Im getting 89C when stress testing and cine is giving me 109C @ 4.5Ghz 1.2V.

 

I'm thinking about maybe creating a hard tubed build. But I dont know where to start , is it even worth it? (Im going to read sticky, already started but wanted to get this post out there). Or should I just buy a stronger AIO and save the troubles? On idle @ 4.5 Im already at 57C. It makes no sense. Im currently running a Corsair H100i. Keep in mind I only have 1 fan (other than the AIO fans) and thats at the back of the case to blow out hot air.

Don't think your problem is the cooling solution yet, consider doing a delid first.

[Matgarciaz]

3 minutes ago, For Science! said:

Don't think your problem is the cooling solution yet, consider doing a delid first.

Oh man whats that?

 

Nvm im reading it, so delid the cpu and replace the thermal compound? Sounds easy enough. Can I use liquid metal?

[For Science!]

1 minute ago, Matgarciaz said:

Oh man whats that?

In short, removing the heatsink, removing the TIM that's not great, and replacing it with liquid metal and then re-sealing it. Doing so will on average improve your thermals by 15-20 degrees. Furthermore, until you do this, the TIM layer currently there is the biggest bottleneck of the system and so upgrading the cooling without doing this is unlikely to improve your thermals significantly.

 

You can also consider direct-die cooling if you're going through with the delidding, which will also be a good boost in thermal performace.

[For Science!]

8 minutes ago, Matgarciaz said:

Sounds easy enough. Can I use liquid metal?

Yes, for the layer between the die and the IHS, you should use liquid metal.

[Matgarciaz]

7 minutes ago, For Science! said:

In short, removing the heatsink, removing the TIM that's not great, and replacing it with liquid metal and then re-sealing it. Doing so will on average improve your thermals by 15-20 degrees. Furthermore, until you do this, the TIM layer currently there is the biggest bottleneck of the system and so upgrading the cooling without doing this is unlikely to improve your thermals significantly.

 

You can also consider direct-die cooling if you're going through with the delidding, which will also be a good boost in thermal performace.

 

1 minute ago, For Science! said:

Yes, for the layer between the die and the IHS, you should use liquid metal.

Ah thank you! I'll watch this video and follow the instructions and get the tools. Hopefully this all goes over well. If I follow the videos I should be okay right? Nothing like crazy sensitive? lol

[phoon]

10 minutes ago, Matgarciaz said:

Sounds easy enough.

Famous last word XD

 

If you end up doing it update us on what happens I'm curious.

[Hans Christian | Teri]

2 minutes ago, Matgarciaz said:

Oh man whats that?

Something that, even if you know what you're doing, potentially risks you breaking your CPU, and in any case voids your warranty. It will definitely increase the performance of your CPU though, that is if it still works after the procedure.

 

A couple of a questions to get out of the way first though:

• 57C at idle sounds awfully high. Did you install the cooler correctly? (Thermal paste, mounting etc)
• How are you stress testing? The temps of Cinebench surpassing a 100% all-core synthetic load is not likely.
• What case is your system living in? The fan configuration sounds less than ideal.

I cannot stress this enough, do not delid your CPU without properly troubleshooting this all the way through first. You will most likely end up heartbroken.

[For Science!]

2 minutes ago, Matgarciaz said:

 

Ah thank you! I'll watch this video and follow the instructions and get the tools. Hopefully this all goes over well. If I follow the videos I should be okay right? Nothing like crazy sensitive? lol

 with the right tools, the process of delidding (i.e. removing the heatsink) is a no-brainer in my opinion.

 

Application of the liquid metal is a bit more nuanced and so you don't want to add too little or too much, too little would mean that the thermals could get even worse than before (to damaging levels of high, if you miss a spot), too much will risk shorting something especially on skylake x that has SMDs. So the standard would be to protect the SMDs with nail varnish prior to application of LM.

 

In my opinion, your current temps are in-line with other users, here's somebody I just pulled off reddit:

 

[Matgarciaz]

24 minutes ago, Hans Christian | Teri said:

Something that, even if you know what you're doing, potentially risks you breaking your CPU, and in any case voids your warranty. It will definitely increase the performance of your CPU though, that is if it still works after the procedure.

 

A couple of a questions to get out of the way first though:

• 57C at idle sounds awfully high. Did you install the cooler correctly? (Thermal paste, mounting etc)
• How are you stress testing? The temps of Cinebench surpassing a 100% all-core synthetic load is not likely.
• What case is your system living in? The fan configuration sounds less than ideal.

I cannot stress this enough, do not delid your CPU without properly troubleshooting this all the way through first. You will most likely end up heartbroken.

Thank you for your wise words! So i believe I did, I have a picture that I posted in the referenced post to the imgur of the pictures, Ill repost here. Im stress testing using Aida64 and there im getting 89-90C. My case is also mentioned in the referenced post. I will update this text though just one second!

 

https://imgur.com/YBkrFjn

https://imgur.com/gDA0WGp

 

case

[Matgarciaz]

25 minutes ago, For Science! said:

 with the right tools, the process of delidding (i.e. removing the heatsink) is a no-brainer in my opinion.

 

Application of the liquid metal is a bit more nuanced and so you don't want to add too little or too much, too little would mean that the thermals could get even worse than before (to damaging levels of high, if you miss a spot), too much will risk shorting something especially on skylake x that has SMDs. So the standard would be to protect the SMDs with nail varnish prior to application of LM.

 

In my opinion, your current temps are in-line with other users, here's somebody I just pulled off reddit:

 

OKay I see, so I can also ship the chip out... hmmm to do it myself and not wait or to ship it out if i decide to do this.

[Matgarciaz]

32 minutes ago, phoon said:

Famous last word XD

 

If you end up doing it update us on what happens I'm curious.

I will let you know! haha It really does sound straight forward though. Like installing a new cpu! lol

[Hans Christian | Teri]

What exactly are you trying to achieve with your build? Do you just want to play games and have fun?

[Matgarciaz]

4 minutes ago, Hans Christian | Teri said:

What exactly are you trying to achieve with your build? Do you just want to play games and have fun?

Well I play games and stream. But as I was playing cod I realized my friend with a 3070 was beating my 3080 in fps. I was averaging about 60-70 while he was at 130. Doesnt make any sense? I overclocked my CPU while following a video and using their settings. I went from 60-70 to 99-100+ FPS. So this is where this is all stemming from. Also sometimes I do game development on the side as a hobby. 

[-rascal-]

Going from the OTHER thread, you have the 2x 120mm fans on the Corsair H100i as exhaust.

Then you have a fan on the rear as....exhaust?

So... you have NO intake fans, because the Lian-Li O11 Dynamic does not come with any fans.

 

If you HAVEN'T tested with the glass side panel off yet, then do that first.

If your system airflow is bad...then your temperatures are going to be bad --- AIO / system is choking for cool air.

 

240mm is not enough, especially for CPUs with high number of cores.

I don't remember which site reviewed it, but they put a Corsair H100i on a 16-core (?) ThreadRipper CPU.

The H100i did WORSE than the Noctua NH-D15, too much heat for the AIO to handle.

 

IMO for something with that much cores, and that much heat output, you'd want a 360mm AIO / radiator.

[Matgarciaz]

8 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

Going from the OTHER thread, you have the 2x 120mm fans on the Corsair H100i as exhaust.

Then you have a fan on the rear as....exhaust?

So... you have NO intake fans, because the Lian-Li O11 Dynamic does not come with any fans.

 

If you HAVEN'T tested with the glass side panel off yet, then do that first.

If your system airflow is bad...then your temperatures are going to be bad --- AIO / system is choking for cool air.

 

240mm is not enough, especially for CPUs with high number of cores.

I don't remember which site reviewed it, but they put a Corsair H100i on a 16-core (?) ThreadRipper CPU.

The H100i did WORSE than the Noctua NH-D15, too much heat for the AIO to handle.

 

IMO for something with that much cores, and that much heat output, you'd want a 360mm AIO / radiator.

Thank you so much for your info man. I appreciate it. So I should get more case fans. Fans honestly confuse the HELL out of me because I never know which way to put them. Like which way does intake and which way does out? Do you know which AIO would be the best and which case fans would be the best for me to get? I would like RGB as well. I just wanna get these temps under control.

[-rascal-]

7 minutes ago, Matgarciaz said:

Thank you so much for your info man. I appreciate it. So I should get more case fans. Fans honestly confuse the HELL out of me because I never know which way to put them. Like which way does intake and which way does out? Do you know which AIO would be the best and which case fans would be the best for me to get? I would like RGB as well. I just wanna get these temps under control.

 

There is literally little arrows on the fans, to show you which direction the blades spin, and direction of airflow. 

 

Like I said, run your testing with the glass side panel off, and SEE / CONFIRM if airflow is the problem first.

Removing the side panel = airflow problem does not exist

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Matgarciaz said:

Referencing my own post

Should I use an AIO or go custom cooling?

7900X?! 

A custom loop....

 

A GOOD waterblock will near the cost of an entire AIO system. That's what separates the men from the mice (so to speak) and well... obviously the custom loop is going to have big time thermal advantages and obviously will result in better performance numbers. 

[Matgarciaz]

56 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

There is literally little arrows on the fans, to show you which direction the blades spin, and direction of airflow. 

 

Like I said, run your testing with the glass side panel off, and SEE / CONFIRM if airflow is the problem first.

Removing the side panel = airflow problem does not exist

Uh so far a little better? During stress test I was getting like 89. Now im at 85?

[bowrilla]

19 hours ago, Matgarciaz said:

Im getting 89C when stress testing and cine is giving me 109C @ 4.5Ghz 1.2V.

I think you're [Edit: NOT] doing it right when stress testing produces less heat than cinebench. But I would not go towards Prime95 stress testing until you fix your cooling.

 

19 hours ago, Matgarciaz said:

I'm thinking about maybe creating a hard tubed build. But I dont know where to start , is it even worth it? (Im going to read sticky, already started but wanted to get this post out there). Or should I just buy a stronger AIO and save the troubles? On idle @ 4.5 Im already at 57C. It makes no sense. Im currently running a Corsair H100i. Keep in mind I only have 1 fan (other than the AIO fans) and thats at the back of the case to blow out hot air.

Your AiO is definitely too small for an overclocked i9 and you DEFINITELY need better cooling and more airflow or you will sooner or later damage your components with your OC. But @For Science!is definitely right, you need to delid that thing.

 

18 hours ago, Matgarciaz said:

Ah thank you! I'll watch this video and follow the instructions and get the tools. Hopefully this all goes over well. If I follow the videos I should be okay right? Nothing like crazy sensitive? lol

Well ... if you're not careful enough you might destroy your CPU. You should definitely get a delid tool like the one Steve is using in the video. The razor blade method poses a serious risk of knocking off components or cutting into the substrate.

 

18 hours ago, Matgarciaz said:

I overclocked my CPU while following a video and using their settings.

What do you mean? Did you just applied their voltages and multiplicator settings? If so: that's not how you overclock. Manual overclocking takes time. You go step by step, increasing the frequency, stress test, if necessary increase voltage, stress test, check temps and then go back to the first step again to raise it further. If you hit temps outside what's considered safe or voltages beyond safe margins you need to stop.

 

17 hours ago, -rascal- said:

Going from the OTHER thread, you have the 2x 120mm fans on the Corsair H100i as exhaust.

Then you have a fan on the rear as....exhaust?

So... you have NO intake fans, because the Lian-Li O11 Dynamic does not come with any fans.

Taking this into account, @Matgarciazyou need to fix your whole build before doing a custom loop of any kind. Without a delid a custom loop won't be as effective and without proper airflow you will still starve several components of cool air (GPU).

[Matgarciaz]

@bowrillaby using their settings I meant I followed a video and for testing I used their settings and it worked but was too hot. Then I followed another video and got to where I’m at now. 4.5ghz @ 1.2V. I tried to lower the voltage to 1.15 still hot. Lowered it to 1.13 it eventually crashed and .8 it didn’t even boot past log in screen. I should have been more clear. So you’re right maybe I do have to delid. I have old CPUs I don’t use anymore, should I practice on those, just ship this thing out, or just go do it and follow the video. Do you also know the best rgb case fans? I’m really on the verge of just running this thing at stock because Idk. I just play games, stream and sometimes do game dev.

[bowrilla]

2 minutes ago, Matgarciaz said:

@bowrillaby using their settings I meant I followed a video and for testing I used their settings and it worked but was too hot. Then I followed another video and got to where I’m at now. 4.5ghz @ 1.2V. I tried to lower the voltage to 1.15 still hot. Lowered it to 1.13 it eventually crashed and .8 it didn’t even boot past log in screen. I should have been more clear. So you’re right maybe I do have to delid. I have old CPUs I don’t use anymore, should I practice on those, just ship this thing out, or just go do it and follow the video. Do you also know the best rgb case fans? I’m really on the verge of just running this thing at stock because Idk. I just play games, stream and sometimes do game dev.

With the delid tool delidding is fairly simply and as safe as it can be. You're still breaking the glue by force so there's still a achance of you breaking it. External services will probably (check their terms first!) offer some sort of warranty and replace damaged components (or not, again, check the terms). 

Not sure if testing makes much sense if the CPU is of a different size. The forces will be different. Again: do not use the razor method, get a delid tool.

Best RGB fans to be mounted on radiators or in cases generally? There's always the option to use Phanteks Halo fan covers to add RGB to any fan. Right now the LianLi fans appear to be pretty good. If you'd insist on RGB fans even on radiators those were probably my choice.

 

OC is rarely sensible in terms of performance gains although it can be if you don't have to invest in a total overhaul. You cooling is insufficient so you need to improve anyways. I would probably not push the limits for 24/7 usage but a mild OC with adequate cooling is like a few % free performance. Pushing the limit will potentially shorten the life span of your components and might require more cooling on top.

 

Kind of similar with cars: some smaller tunings by fine tuning the engine is possible giving you like 5-10% more power but you won't notice that in most situations. If you want to go further, you need to dig deeper and spend more money.

[Matgarciaz]

@bowrilla I’ll weigh my options and check some things out. If anything I’ll end up doing it myself.

 

As for the fans, like what are the best RGB case fans? I also think I’m gonna go for a new AIO. Do you think I should go that route or just do a custom loop? If AIO do you know the best one? I have like no budget so I can do either. I just want this cooling to get better regardless you know? I really appreciate all your help, that’s a good comparison with cars. So you shouldn’t really always have a 24/7 OC?

[bowrilla]

5 minutes ago, Matgarciaz said:

As for the fans, like what are the best RGB case fans? I also think I’m gonna go for a new AIO. Do you think I should go that route or just do a custom loop? If AIO do you know the best one? I have like no budget so I can do either. I just want this cooling to get better regardless you know? I really appreciate all your help, that’s a good comparison with cars. So you shouldn’t really always have a 24/7 OC?

As mentioned, Lian Li Uni Fans are pretty good, they are also okay for radiators (not great but okay). You can make all fans RGB with Phanteks' Halo system. 

 

You can have a 24/7 OC but it will probably be a mild OC. If you want to go beyond, you'll need custom loop water cooling. 

 

Best AiO? They usually don't performan that differntly since almost all of them use Asetek blocks. They varry in added features and the added fans but that's about it with most of them. You should probably go for a 280 or 360mm radiator no matter if you go AiO or custom loop.

 

A 24/7 mild OC is like a fine tuned engine map that ensures all is still in spec and all components are still happy. If you want more you'll either wear out some components sooner or later or you will need to make bigger upgrades. But no matter what you do, you need to make sure that the base is fine and has no issues before you start doing any tuning.

 

Your computer has issues, so don't tune it before you've sorted those issues out. A mild OC is fine with an AiO or a good air cooler if you have a decent case with enough airflow. Less airflow or higher ambient temp means less OC headroom. I would certainly not run any system that boils over 85°C under max load. And I would certainly not OC/tune such a system. That'd be like tuning an engine that consistently heats up the water to 120°C on the highway. If your CPU doesn't reach 85°C under torture test scenarios, then you have headroom for some OC/tuning.

[Matgarciaz]

22 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

As mentioned, Lian Li Uni Fans are pretty good, they are also okay for radiators (not great but okay). You can make all fans RGB with Phanteks' Halo system. 

 

You can have a 24/7 OC but it will probably be a mild OC. If you want to go beyond, you'll need custom loop water cooling. 

 

Best AiO? They usually don't performan that differntly since almost all of them use Asetek blocks. They varry in added features and the added fans but that's about it with most of them. You should probably go for a 280 or 360mm radiator no matter if you go AiO or custom loop.

 

A 24/7 mild OC is like a fine tuned engine map that ensures all is still in spec and all components are still happy. If you want more you'll either wear out some components sooner or later or you will need to make bigger upgrades. But no matter what you do, you need to make sure that the base is fine and has no issues before you start doing any tuning.

 

Your computer has issues, so don't tune it before you've sorted those issues out. A mild OC is fine with an AiO or a good air cooler if you have a decent case with enough airflow. Less airflow or higher ambient temp means less OC headroom. I would certainly not run any system that boils over 85°C under max load. And I would certainly not OC/tune such a system. That'd be like tuning an engine that consistently heats up the water to 120°C on the highway. If your CPU doesn't reach 85°C under torture test scenarios, then you have headroom for some OC/tuning.

Okay I’ll look up the fans right now! Thank you man.

 

I’ll try to fill my case up with these fans. 
I’ll even get a 360mm AIO for now and if I decide I want to go to a custom loop I’ll do even more research. Can I put liquid metal on an AIO in replacement for thermal paste?