Thinking about getting a Model M, any things to know?

[ModelM]

I recently started learning Colemak and my birthday is coming up soon so I thought that I might treat myself and get a Model M. Any thoughts about buying off of Ebay, if it somehow interferes with colemak, the two key rollover being bad for typing, and the best way to connect it to a USB port. Thanks!

 

P.S. - I haven't bought anything yet, and want to hear other opinions and tips!

[NutronSe7en]

I'm not well versed in it but make sure you are getting confirmation on which one you are buying as there are so many.

[jaslion]

You could just get a imitation and get 99% of the experience. From personal use it really isn't that special it just feels like a nice old keyboard and that is really it. About converting to usb and the rollover depends on the variation of the keyboard. I'd just get a nice modern keyboard if I were you.

[ModelM]

Just now, jaslion said:

You could just get a imitation and get 99% of the experience. From personal use it really isn't that special it just feels like a nice old keyboard and that is really it. About converting to usb and the rollover depends on the variation of the keyboard. I'd just get a nice modern keyboard if I were you.

Thanks for responding so fast! Can you name any good ones? Also I feel that part of getting a Model M is just like getting a HHKB - Just using real buckling springs on an actual IBM. On the other hand my wallet would be ecstatic with a cheaper one!

[Admiral Shark]

eBay is still fairly decent for buying Model Ms from. They are getting pricier and pricier though, so be patient and make use of eBay's saved searches functionality to get email updates on new listings and potentially get to good deals quicker! However, there are some gotchas you'll need to be vigilant of, especially given Model Ms are in fact a huge family of keyboards with many variants and nunances to look out for. As such, I'll outline the basic/most important ones:

• If not present, ask for an internal photo of the keyboard! All standard-style Model Ms have an internal assembly held together with many plastic rivets that can break over time. If too many are missing, you run the risk of it feeling less crisp to type on or outright failure that can only be fixed with doing a 'bolt-mod' yourself or sending it to Unicomp for refurbishment. Some might have differing opinions, but usually up to five missing should be alright provided the ones missing are spread out (if ~5 were missing in one spot, there's probably trouble!)
• Take note of the 7-digit part number on the back. They can reveal what their original host system was and what protocol they speak (as a rule of thumb for standard full-size Model Ms, 139012x/139014x (without lights for locks) means it's XT auto-sense, 139013x means AT (which can be adapted to PS/2 very cheaply), 13914xx means PS/2 systems, 92G74xx/42H12xx means PS/2 or other mid-'90s systems, etc) or reveal if it's a rubber dome model that you probably want to avoid (71G46xx). If you're still unsure if what you're looking at is a variant you'd be happy with, you can search the part number up on my website's database to find out its specs (if missing, try asking here, on r/ModelM subreddit and Discord, or just DM me!)
• Take note whether it's a terminal variant. Usually, it's obvious since most 102-key terminal Ms have an RJ-45-like modular jack, but there's some (like 13863xx) out there with a DIN connector that looks like AT but has a different pin arrange (240-degree vs AT's 180-degree arrangement).
• You may see references to Model Ms with a number after the M. As alluded to before, there are many variants out there and IBM did number a few of them, which makes it easier to ID those specifically. My website has a brief regarding most known variants that you can check out (just scroll past the Model Fs).

As for converting to USB - for AT DIN or PS/2 mini-DIN Model Ms, you need specifically an active converter to get it working. I use a Perixx PERIPRO-401 ($6.99 on Amazon US, cheap in most other countries too) and can vouch for it. If that's unavailable in your region and you want to be sure what you're looking at is an active converter; as a rule of thumb, active converters can be specifically labelled as such (of course), sometimes described as having a USB integrated controller (IC), feature a small box in the middle of the cable, and more often than not include both keyboard and mouse PS/2 ports together. Note: If you're getting a Model M with a larger DIN plug, you will also need an inexpensive DIN to PS/2 passive adapter as well. These can be had for pennies.

 

If you somehow want to try your hand at a terminal Model M (say because you want one of those 122-key monsters), you'll need a Soarer's Converter to get it working. Orihalcon on eBay and tinkerboy.xyz are both well-known places to get one. Just make sure you get the right one (my database will tell you what connector you need to match).

 

I can't really comment on COLEMAK support since I've never used it, although I was under the impression it's just a software change to get it working?

 

2KRO doesn't hamper me typing (or even some gaming). 2KRO doesn't necessarily mean a hard limit of only two simultaneous keystrokes, more like only 2 keystrokes can be guaranteed. There will be instances when using a Model M where the 2-key limit applies, or where you can find yourself pressing up to 6 keys with no problem! It's all dependent on the matrix positions of the keys you're trying to hit. A good example of a long keystroke Model Ms support is pressing Shift+W+D+F+Space together, which pretty much means its good enough for me to play Battlefield with an M!

 

Anyway, apologies for the text wall - I wanted to be thorough! Any questions, just ask!

[Admiral Shark]

1 hour ago, ModelM said:

Thanks for responding so fast! Can you name any good ones? Also I feel that part of getting a Model M is just like getting a HHKB - Just using real buckling springs on an actual IBM. On the other hand my wallet would be ecstatic with a cheaper one!

Unicomp may be an option then? They are real buckling springs by any measure, and their keyboards presently are nowhere near as bad as people say. Their latest offering, the aptly-named New Model M, is quite the keyboard in its own right! A nice contrast to their offerings, which can suffer from some blemishes issues due to the fact they're made with 20+ year old IBM/Lexmark tooling. And of course, there are other niceties with going Unicomp too; no need to deal with restoring the board, ability to get them with a specific layout or keycap arrangement, with or without Windows keys (doesn't apply to New Model M though) and they come with a warranty!

[ModelM]

6 hours ago, SharktasticA said:

Unicomp may be an option then? They are real buckling springs by any measure, and their keyboards presently are nowhere near as bad as people say. Their latest offering, the aptly-named New Model M, is quite the keyboard in its own right! A nice contrast to their offerings, which can suffer from some blemishes issues due to the fact they're made with 20+ year old IBM/Lexmark tooling. And of course, there are other niceties with going Unicomp too; no need to deal with restoring the board, ability to get them with a specific layout or keycap arrangement, with or without Windows keys (doesn't apply to New Model M though) and they come with a warranty!

First of all, THANK YOU!!!! I never expected someone to be this thorough in answering my question! This information has helped me a bunch! I do have a few questions though-

 

#1: I think this is just me worrying, but do the Unicomp Model Ms 100% have all of the plastic rivets? Pretty sure that they would have to, but just making sure!

 

#2: Do you have to disassemble and reassemble the case of a Model M to look at the rivets as one of the Model Ms that I am eyeballing on eBay is sold by someone who supposedly only used it once, and doesn't sound very hardware savvy!

 

#3: Do you think that it would be a wiser choice to get this Model M off of eBay (Link at the bottom, and It's supposed to be near new), a Unicomp Ultra Classic one, or a Unicomp New Model M (although I think the aesthetics look a tad bit weird, and like the original colors way more) 

 

#4 I think that I've read somewhere before about the Model M being not great for gaming because you can't press the same button twice in a row easily. I'm not really one for reprogramming keys, so if this isn't an issue than there are none for me!

 

#5 If you have any specific buckling spring keyboard that you know that you think would be good for a beginner, I'm all ears!

 

Ebay Keyboard Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-42H1292-UK-made-Clicky-keyboard-Almost-unused/265027389206?hash=item3db4dd0716:g:hgAAAOSwbSlgDwlA

 

Unicomp Ultra Classic: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI0P4A

 

New Model M: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/NEWM

 

Thanks!!!!!!!

[Admiral Shark]

8 hours ago, ModelM said:

#1: I think this is just me worrying, but do the Unicomp Model Ms 100% have all of the plastic rivets? Pretty sure that they would have to, but just making sure!

Yes. See below a photo of the assembly of my New Model M - all rivets are present, and the ones that look blank are supposed to be blank:

8 hours ago, ModelM said:

#2: Do you have to disassemble and reassemble the case of a Model M to look at the rivets as one of the Model Ms that I am eyeballing on eBay is sold by someone who supposedly only used it once, and doesn't sound very hardware savvy!

Unfortunately, yes.

8 hours ago, ModelM said:

#3: Do you think that it would be a wiser choice to get this Model M off of eBay (Link at the bottom, and It's supposed to be near new), a Unicomp Ultra Classic one, or a Unicomp New Model M (although I think the aesthetics look a tad bit weird, and like the original colors way more) 

If the price is right (ie, less than a Unicomp's), then I say go for the old M especially if you want beige. Although just FYI, 42H1292s like that are very late examples of IBM-made Model Ms and are made to similar standards as Unicomps, so if you were hoping to buy an IBM-made one with the hope of better quality, there's not much of a point going with 42H1292s - IMHO, grey oval 1391401s or even earlier are worth paying a premium over a Unicomp for the best IBMium. Not saying 42H1292s are bad (they're not bad at all), but it's not worth paying more than a Unicomp for one. I know that auction looks like a good price for now, but it'll likely go up.

 

Out of the Unicomps though, the New Model M is a better better sell. The aesthetic they're going with is an SSK with the numpad reattached (in fact, Unicomp has a new tenkeyless on the way too).

8 hours ago, ModelM said:

#4 I think that I've read somewhere before about the Model M being not great for gaming because you can't press the same button twice in a row easily. I'm not really one for reprogramming keys, so if this isn't an issue than there are none for me!

So, that could be down to two things:

• Hystersis (when a switch's release point is higher than its actuation point) can make quick-succession pressing a bit troublesome, and buckling springs does have hystersis to a high degree.
• Model Ms feel heavier than most clickies to press. I would say BOX Pale Blues are a close analogy for weighting, but even then, buckling springs still feels a bit different to all modern alternatives.

Whether either are an issue for you is subjective, of course. I game on my Model M, but I totally see why people call them a typist's board rather than a gamer's board. It's probably worth first buying a buckling springs key tester (like from orihalcon off eBay) and see for yourself?

8 hours ago, ModelM said:

#5 If you have any specific buckling spring keyboard that you know that you think would be good for a beginner, I'm all ears!

Honestly, that would be a Unicomp. You know exactly what you're buying, can come with USB as standard, and you get a warranty. No nonsense whatsoever. Failing that, a 1391401 or 42H1292 (or a localised version of either) is the next best thing for beginners. Of course, an SSK would also be a good starter bought... if they weren't so damn expensive these days!

[ModelM]

15 hours ago, SharktasticA said:

Yes. See below a photo of the assembly of my New Model M - all rivets are present, and the ones that look blank are supposed to be blank:

Unfortunately, yes.

If the price is right (ie, less than a Unicomp's), then I say go for the old M especially if you want beige. Although just FYI, 42H1292s like that are very late examples of IBM-made Model Ms and are made to similar standards as Unicomps, so if you were hoping to buy an IBM-made one with the hope of better quality, there's not much of a point going with 42H1292s - IMHO, grey oval 1391401s or even earlier are worth paying a premium over a Unicomp for the best IBMium. Not saying 42H1292s are bad (they're not bad at all), but it's not worth paying more than a Unicomp for one. I know that auction looks like a good price for now, but it'll likely go up.

 

Out of the Unicomps though, the New Model M is a better better sell. The aesthetic they're going with is an SSK with the numpad reattached (in fact, Unicomp has a new tenkeyless on the way too).

So, that could be down to two things:

• Hystersis (when a switch's release point is higher than its actuation point) can make quick-succession pressing a bit troublesome, and buckling springs does have hystersis to a high degree.
• Model Ms feel heavier than most clickies to press. I would say BOX Pale Blues are a close analogy for weighting, but even then, buckling springs still feels a bit different to all modern alternatives.

Whether either are an issue for you is subjective, of course. I game on my Model M, but I totally see why people call them a typist's board rather than a gamer's board. It's probably worth first buying a buckling springs key tester (like from orihalcon off eBay) and see for yourself?

Honestly, that would be a Unicomp. You know exactly what you're buying, can come with USB as standard, and you get a warranty. No nonsense whatsoever. Failing that, a 1391401 or 42H1292 (or a localised version of either) is the next best thing for beginners. Of course, an SSK would also be a good starter bought... if they weren't so damn expensive these days!

Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it! You've helped me narrow it down to two keyboards: The 42H1292 Model M, or a Unicomp Ultra Classic. I will probably get the Model M if the auction price doesn't exceed $80, and the Unicomp otherwise. As my search for a Model M (Or just any decent buckling spring keyboard really) nears an end, I have one final thing to tell you: I can never thank you enough for your help! You are obviously very passionate about IBM keyboards/keypads, and I think that you are kinder than most people because you have helped me very thoroughly and answered every question that I had. Sorry about me ranting so much, I just feel very grateful lol - I will try to post pictures and update you on the keyboard that I end up getting!

[Admiral Shark]

17 hours ago, ModelM said:

Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it! You've helped me narrow it down to two keyboards: The 42H1292 Model M, or a Unicomp Ultra Classic. I will probably get the Model M if the auction price doesn't exceed $80, and the Unicomp otherwise. As my search for a Model M (Or just any decent buckling spring keyboard really) nears an end, I have one final thing to tell you: I can never thank you enough for your help! You are obviously very passionate about IBM keyboards/keypads, and I think that you are kinder than most people because you have helped me very thoroughly and answered every question that I had. Sorry about me ranting so much, I just feel very grateful lol - I will try to post pictures and update you on the keyboard that I end up getting!

No problem, always a pleasure to help!

[Infinitewpm]

23 hours ago, SharktasticA said:

No problem, always a pleasure to help!

Hi, Its Model M here. I created Model M as a throwaway account, but decided that I actually liked the forum. A few hours ago I closed down Firefox, and sadly I used a random email address, so that account is gone forever (I forgot the password too lol). This account however is made with my actual email address and hopefully here to stay!

[geo3]

FIY They're still making the Model F. (Which is the Model M's superior brother)

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/

[Infinitewpm]

20 hours ago, geo3 said:

FIY They're still making the Model F. (Which is the Model M's superior brother)

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/

(I'm the author of this posts main account) That looks amazing, but that price... a tad bit too high for me!

[Infinitewpm]

On 1/27/2021 at 5:35 AM, SharktasticA said:

IMHO, grey oval 1391401s or even earlier are worth paying a premium over a Unicomp for the best IBMium.

While browsing eBay I found this 1391401! Do you think that it would be worth it up to $100? It does look a bit dirty, so if you do recommend it do you have any guides for cleaning?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-M-clicky-keyboard-1391401-3-89-Exc-cond-Tested-With-USB-adapter-No-Res/293974279340?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3D6636f75d00d547e9a811db5957ee7ecb%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D265027389206%26itm%3D293974279340%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DIBM&_trksid=p2047675.c101224.m-1

[Admiral Shark]

10 hours ago, BucklingSprings said:

While browsing eBay I found this 1391401! Do you think that it would be worth it up to $100? It does look a bit dirty, so if you do recommend it do you have any guides for cleaning?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-M-clicky-keyboard-1391401-3-89-Exc-cond-Tested-With-USB-adapter-No-Res/293974279340?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3D6636f75d00d547e9a811db5957ee7ecb%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D265027389206%26itm%3D293974279340%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DIBM&_trksid=p2047675.c101224.m-1

Yeah, up to $100 for a grey oval would still be a reasonable eBay price. We have to pay way more than that to get the UK version (P/N 1391406) here in the UK!