New tech availability in Poland

[dextkrk]

Hi,

I'm from Poland, and I'm watching the "scalping-gate" drama in shock. I completely don't understand what is this about, could someone maybe explain it to me?
 

Poland has a very long and rich history, but not so long ago we were under communist occupation. One of the problems we had to face, were regulated prices. Government was setting prices, which were always way lower, that what people were willing to pay. This have meant legal shops had empty shelves, and "black" market was thriving. Authorities even tried to solve it by issuing special "cards", which allowed to buy only limited number of certain goods.
 

This system has collapsed miserably, now we are proud to call our economy a free market. Fixing prices in whole of European Union is illegal in any way. From what I could find it's the same in USA [1]. In Poland nothing ever costs MSRP, it's over, or below. This means GeForce 30xx, PS 5, Xbox X and Ryzen 3 are all easily and legally available, just currently around 150-200% of the MSRP price.
 

"Scalping" the way you have is crazy illegal here. To be able to trade, you have to be a company and pay taxes, or sell stuff 6 month after you've bought it. Otherwise you'd be almost an enemy of the state. Not paying taxes is one of the biggest offenses except causing physical and direct harm to others. This means, I can get GeForce 3080 for double MSRP, but I can expense it, and I'll have receipt in my name, and date of purchase the day I've payed.
 

Yes, "big shop chains" are trying to sell for MSRP for some reason. But here is how it works. We legally don't divide trade to retail and wholesale. Every shop is legally required to treat individual customers and B2B transactions the same. So small companies just buy stock from those "big shop chains", and think they are crazy.
 

This is how free trade works here, prices reflect what customers are willing to pay. We are taught we've learned/copied it from North America. I guess there are some legal and cultural differences which I don't understand. Could someone please explain? I like to get my news from American sources, but this case makes my brain hurt
 

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_price#United_States

[L0R3N30]

4 minutes ago, dextkrk said:

Hi,

I'm from Poland, and I'm watching the "scalping-gate" drama in shock. I completely don't understand what is this about, could someone maybe explain it to me?

I believe scalpers buy up some if not most of the stock avalibility of a product, then sell it online for a profit. Since no one can buy one at a retailer, they have to go with the more expensive, scalped version. Not sure I understand the rest of what you said

[Kilrah]

11 minutes ago, dextkrk said:

"Scalping" the way you have is crazy illegal here. To be able to trade, you have to be a company and pay taxes, or sell stuff 6 month after you've bought it.

Anyone can trade without a company as long as they declare it as independent/freelance business and pay their taxes on it.

 

Most of the scalpers are businesses anyway.

[dextkrk]

OK, I think I know where the misunderstanding lays. The media coverage of this issue in North America makes it look, like people selling for a market prices are universally hated. People are shouting "don't buy from scalpers". What I have meant, in Poland this is normal and acceptable. I guess I just wonder where the difference comes from. Is it the media coverage?

[akio123008]

1 hour ago, dextkrk said:

"Scalping" the way you have is crazy illegal here. To be able to trade, you have to be a company and pay taxes, or sell stuff 6 month after you've bought it.

While I'm not an expert on Poland, I'm pretty sure you can trade there without being a company. Otherwise how would you ever be able to buy, say a used car from someone? You're also not telling me there's no Ebay there or some Polish version of it.

[Loote]

3 hours ago, akio123008 said:

While I'm not an expert on Poland, I'm pretty sure you can trade there without being a company. Otherwise how would you ever be able to buy, say a used car from someone? You're also not telling me there's no Ebay there or some Polish version of it.

That's not really what he meant. Our gov assumes that if you regularly purchase goods and sell them with the aim to profit, you should create a company, you can hope not to get caught, or swallow the pill and pay taxes that companies pay. What's more, even as a private person, if you sell something sooner than 6 months you need to fill the tax form at the end of the year, you get ~$750 profit tax free, then 18% until you earn $20k and 32% later(that is info from a quick research and something my friend complained about before, I do not sell shit I owned for less than 6 months).

The thing I think is a rule everywhere, you do not want to fuck with the tax office.

 

Edit: But I didn't mention, we totally have people who buy stuff cheap and immediately sell for more, like everywhere.

[Kilrah]

10 hours ago, dextkrk said:

OK, I think I know where the misunderstanding lays. The media coverage of this issue in North America makes it look, like people selling for a market prices are universally hated. People are shouting "don't buy from scalpers". What I have meant, in Poland this is normal and acceptable. I guess I just wonder where the difference comes from. 

Scalpers are people using unfair methods to snag up all available stock from retailers at retail price, just so they can sell above market prices and make a buck instead of letting people just buy the cards from the retailers themselves for the normal price. Pretty obvious why people say "don't buy from scalpers so that you don't support their shady business". 

 

Nobody is against people selling at normal retail price, but everyone is against people who artificially raise the "market price" for their own benefit.

[Amias]

It's pissing me off that Nvidia / AMD are not pricing their limited available stock accordingly and utilising the additional funding to ensure they can boost their future supply. 

 

OP is right. The price fixing enacted by Nvidia and AMD is just driving a black market.

 

Nvidia (by extension Samsung, and all the other component suppliers), your 3080 $699 is admirable and amazing. However fire your marketing team for gods-sake. Your demand vs. supply calculation was f***ing wrong. You could be making double your profit easy. Idiots. Absolute idiots.

 

Now I know this screws us gamers, that just want a faster card. But supply / demand rules the roost and all Nvidia has managed to do is kill it's 2000 series (who the f would invest in them now), piss off all the gamers that can't buy a 3000 series and lose a s*** ton of money from their new release.

 

Imagine this.

 

3000 series should be $1000+, 2000 series should be $600-1000 and earlier sub $600. Instead who's going to buy a 2000 series, and who can even buy a 3000 series? They just screwed the market up.

[Amias]

13 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Scalpers are people using unfair methods to snag up all available stock from retailers at retail price, just so they can sell above market prices and make a buck instead of letting people just buy the cards from the retailers themselves for the normal price. Pretty obvious why people say "don't buy

 

This is capitalism. "Scalpers" only exist because Nvidia has screwed the market with communist price fixing.

 

That's not their problem. It's how most business work, identify a unique resource, get it, then sell it for profit. That's how you're likely earning a salary. Don't be pissed at scalpers, be pissed at Nvidia for screwing the market up.

[Kilrah]

Nvidia hasn't done any price fixing at all, that would be illegal for a start.

[unsorted]

I got aversions when I heard European Union and the words Free Market being used nearby. Everything is manipulated. Everything.

 

It's always about profit (and control). Always.

Scalpers are the least of anyone's worries. If we look up in the chain, profit and control (and deception) dominate life on all levels. Seen and unseen.

 

Hug a scalper today.