receiver upgrade Help!!!

[Soulfire20]

Looking for a new receiver. currently own Denon avr-1713. Thinking of upgrading to a Marantz. I got energy take classic 5.1 speakers if that helps.

Any recommendations? Don't want to spend a fortune but willing to spend some money for a noticeable difference.

[ShearMe]

What kind of difference are you expecting?

[WolfStrong]

HUGE Marantz fan myself. Actually have an old 2325 sitting in my room right now.

 

That said, while you can notice a difference going to something like a NR1403 or SR5008, I don't recommend  doing so. The reason for this is that you are going to be paying a premium for such a small change in sound, that you will soon regret your purchase. The weakest point in your system is going to be your speakers at this point, because the Denon is actually a decent receiver, and is more than capable at driving those Energy speakers. Not to say that they are bad, but what I am saying is that there are better approaches to improving your system. Here they are:

 

1) Environment! Before wasting (yes, wasting) money on equipment, first make sure that the environment that you are listening in is as acoustically sound as possible. Do some research on this, as this can often be more involved than the actual equipment itself. No joke, fixing the acoustics in the room has such a big impact on the sound, that you do nothing but this, and the difference can be as big as a cheap $100 speaker system sounding better than a $10,000 speaker system. This includes speaker positioning, tuning, sound isolation, reverb cancellation, and so forth. Do this first, and you may find whole new life in your current setup.

 

2) Speakers. They make the sound, and tend to color it in different ways. Choices are vast here, so I won't go into any specifics. The basics though is this: Bigger is usually better. Those small Energy speakers only have so much potential being, well, small. Look into more capable speakers. FOCUS ON THE FRONT CHANNELS. The rears are usually just filler, though you will want them to match the sound of the fronts. I honestly recommend skipping the whole surround thing all together to start, and just focus on a 2.0/2.1 system, and slowly build it up from there. Often, when people take this approach, they end up passing on the whole surround thing because of how much better a focused 2.0/2.1 system sounds.

 

3) Obviously if you go too crazy with speakers, you are going to need something more capable to handle them. Skip receivers all together at this point, and go modular. It gives you more control, better future proofing, and often better build quality/reliability. That old 2325 sitting in my room is proof of this. It has no amazing technology in it by todays standards, but what it does, it does better than just about anything else out there: powering speakers. That will never change, whether it was 40 years ago, or 50 years down the road, so it really is one of those things where you can buy a good integrated amp/power amp, and have it last your whole life. From there, all you really need to change is simply the DAC/preamp. Considering how fast technology changes now, with even 4k just looming around the corner, this sort of stuff could be outdated in as few as 5 years. That amp though...I think you get the point.

 

But, let me just remind you again of the most important thing: acoustics. If you can't listen to your stuff at the volume you would like without disturbing your neighbors, than you are already fighting a losing battle. Fix that (research on soundproofing), otherwise the pure distraction of always worrying about disturbing your neighbors can kill the experience. Then fix the acoustics of the room, and only after that, worry about upgrading your system further. I simply can not stress on how important this is over everything else (mostly because your system right now, is honestly not bad when put into the right environment).

[mr moose]

HUGE Marantz fan myself. Actually have an old 2325 sitting in my room right now.

 

That said, while you can notice a difference going to something like a NR1403 or SR5008, I don't recommend  doing so. The reason for this is that you are going to be paying a premium for such a small change in sound, that you will soon regret your purchase. The weakest point in your system is going to be your speakers at this point, because the Denon is actually a decent receiver, and is more than capable at driving those Energy speakers. Not to say that they are bad, but what I am saying is that there are better approaches to improving your system. Here they are:

 

1) Environment! Before wasting (yes, wasting) money on equipment, first make sure that the environment that you are listening in is as acoustically sound as possible. Do some research on this, as this can often be more involved than the actual equipment itself. No joke, fixing the acoustics in the room has such a big impact on the sound, that you do nothing but this, and the difference can be as big as a cheap $100 speaker system sounding better than a $10,000 speaker system. This includes speaker positioning, tuning, sound isolation, reverb cancellation, and so forth. Do this first, and you may find whole new life in your current setup.

 

2) Speakers. They make the sound, and tend to color it in different ways. Choices are vast here, so I won't go into any specifics. The basics though is this: Bigger is usually better. Those small Energy speakers only have so much potential being, well, small. Look into more capable speakers. FOCUS ON THE FRONT CHANNELS. The rears are usually just filler, though you will want them to match the sound of the fronts. I honestly recommend skipping the whole surround thing all together to start, and just focus on a 2.0/2.1 system, and slowly build it up from there. Often, when people take this approach, they end up passing on the whole surround thing because of how much better a focused 2.0/2.1 system sounds.

 

3) Obviously if you go too crazy with speakers, you are going to need something more capable to handle them. Skip receivers all together at this point, and go modular. It gives you more control, better future proofing, and often better build quality/reliability. That old 2325 sitting in my room is proof of this. It has no amazing technology in it by todays standards, but what it does, it does better than just about anything else out there: powering speakers. That will never change, whether it was 40 years ago, or 50 years down the road, so it really is one of those things where you can buy a good integrated amp/power amp, and have it last your whole life. From there, all you really need to change is simply the DAC/preamp. Considering how fast technology changes now, with even 4k just looming around the corner, this sort of stuff could be outdated in as few as 5 years. That amp though...I think you get the point.

 

But, let me just remind you again of the most important thing: acoustics. If you can't listen to your stuff at the volume you would like without disturbing your neighbors, than you are already fighting a losing battle. Fix that (research on soundproofing), otherwise the pure distraction of always worrying about disturbing your neighbors can kill the experience. Then fix the acoustics of the room, and only after that, worry about upgrading your system further. I simply can not stress on how important this is over everything else (mostly because your system right now, is honestly not bad when put into the right environment).

1. Yes indeed, if you research properly you can get amazing results from things like carpet, extra curtains, wall hangings and home made bass traps.  I have done my studio and it only cost about $500 as I had access to large offcuts of carpet, material to make bass traps and the only thing I had to by was velvet for the curtains.  Makes a huge difference to the sound of the room.

 

2. always start with good speakers and as they are the weakest link I would spend most of your budget here.

 

As for sound proofing, well I wouldn't bother, there's just no way to sound proof without spending a fortune, you can do cheap stuff but the level of sound proofing is hardly worth it until you rip the walls apart and start isolating studs and packing with rockwool etc. 

[Soulfire20]

Thanks for the replays. I have tried some tweaking. I have them in my bedroom which is small. The sound is good but i think i can improve it. The biggest thing for me is space can't move things around easily.

 

For the Marantz receiver does it have better features then the Denon? just curious.

 

I will try moving thing around this weekend. see how that goes. I got wooden floors. Under my desk and chair i got Hard plastic so i don't scratch the hardwood. 

My sub woofer is on it. Any tips on placing the sub? people say out from the wall a bit. some say close the a corner. 

[Soulfire20]

For a subwoofer what is the difference having the driver in the front or on the bottom? My system the driver is in the bottom and the bass port is in the front.

[ShearMe]

For a subwoofer what is the difference having the driver in the front or on the bottom? My system the driver is in the bottom and the bass port is in the front.

 

Not really any difference, bass isn't very directional. Placement of the unit as a whole is more important than angling the woofer like with "regular" speakers.

[WolfStrong]

Thanks for the replays. I have tried some tweaking. I have them in my bedroom which is small. The sound is good but i think i can improve it. The biggest thing for me is space can't move things around easily.

 

For the Marantz receiver does it have better features then the Denon? just curious.

 

I will try moving thing around this weekend. see how that goes. I got wooden floors. Under my desk and chair i got Hard plastic so i don't scratch the hardwood. 

My sub woofer is on it. Any tips on placing the sub? people say out from the wall a bit. some say close the a corner. 

Few tips:

 

Essentially, you want to cut down on reverb/echo that hard surfaces tend to have. Laying a rug down on the floor can help, as well as putting up acoustic wall panels. This video has a good comparison on how some small changes make a fairly large difference. I say this simply to give you an idea on how acoustics can affect the sound, and if that is the kind of sound that you are trying to fix.

 

As far as the subwoofer, a little trick to setting it up is to place the sub where you are going to be sitting, and then walk around the room, and find where it sounds the best. Then, simply place the sub at that location. Having corner panels like the guy did in the video can help a lot with the bass as well, but as far as placement, that is honestly my best advice.

 

When it comes to Denon vs Marantz, keep in mind that they are made by the same company, D&M Holdings; the difference is their philosophy on audio. Denon is about reaching the mass consumer, so they will throw in as many features as they can think of (even many that are just stupid), make the specs large, cut costs where possible, and sell it to as many places as possible while trying to keep the audio quality 'good enough'. They aren't bad products, but as far as reliability, quality of the components, and sound quality goes, you can get more elsewhere.

 

Marantz on the other hand is an old audio company that has been bought out by a few different audio companies throughout the decades, but at the core, not much has changed. They have a focus on audio quality, making a quality component out of quality parts, and not price gouging their stuff. Their audio sound is more 'warm' and tube-like than other solid state amps, and often people will even call it a 'good ol' Marantz sound'. IMHO, you get a LOT more for your money with Marantz, as often those 'consumer features' you find in Denon/Onkyo/ect tend to be nothing more than gimmicks that no one even uses. We have an old Marantz receiver from the 70's that still to this day is going strong, and weights enough, and with enough metal on it, that if it fell on you, it would probably kill you. The new ones are still made and feel amazing, and I can't tell you how much I would love to get my hands on one if I had the money.

 

Ok...chilling out on the Marantz Fanboy side of me. Other companies that make a good product would be Cambridge Audio, Pioneer Elite (don't bother with their normal stuff), Yamaha AVENTAGE, NAD, Anthem, and Rotel are some that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

Again, I want to emphasize though that simply upgrading your receiver will probably give you disappointing results. Working on acoustics, speakers, and speaker positioning are going to have a much larger effect on the audio performance than swapping out the receiver. Room calibration is actually a feature built into many newer receivers, and Marantz actually has some of the best calibration software built into their receivers. Your Denon probably has this in some way shape or form, and is something you may want to play with.

 

EDIT: Here is a great tutorial on acoustics and such! 

[Soulfire20]

So i looked it up and i seen that i can't fix my boomy bass problem. I am on the second floor and someone said it is to do with it being open underneath. If it was concrete underneath would give a better sound.