I need some help setting up a server and off-site backup for an old-school brick and mortar business.

[Lingrah]

Actual questions start with -, but more info might make answers easier.

 

I'm helping my grandparents gunshop upgrade their entire computer and POS system. Until couple years ago they did everything on paper. They now have a computer system that sucks.

 

Most of the stuff I can do without assistance from this forum, but I need help with some server and off-site stuff. Right now if their one computer has a hard drive fail, they lose all of their digital everything, all they have left is a literal paper trail (It hurts my soul too).

 

I want to add a server there that backs up their computers nightly. I want it to store locally and upload to an off-site service. I would also like to back up the security footage for a couple weeks (right now it's 9 days), and maybe a couple important cameras for a few extra months.

 

- So I need a local server that has enough processing power to upload and download many files, and that's about it for processing power. It needs a good internet link, and many slots for expandable storage. Hotswap drives not necessary. What would be a good raid setup for basic storage security (one drive failure maybe)? 

 

- What off-site service would be best for large amounts of uploads daily. Probably not many downloads. Will it come with its own software to match files between local and them?

 

- I need a small server rack with a couple slots for later expansion, but there's not a ton of floor space for a massive setup.

 

- What operating system would be best for something like this? Windows would be best because I'm familiar with it, but if that's not feasible I can learn something else.

 

- on that note, what software would be best to setup that would automatically send information from the main computers, to the local server at the end of the day, and then shut off the computers.

 

If you couldn't tell, my knowledge about storage and backup servers is limited. Any help and advice would be incredible. Thank you guys so much <3

[Electronics Wizardy]

Id really get a MSP or other IT service provider in here, there is a lot to know, and a lot that can do done wrong(like whats your plan for PCI compliance?)

 

Id probably backup to a cloud serivce.

 

What pos system are you using?

 

What cameras are DVR are you using?

 

What os are those computers running? How many? Are they on a domain or managed at all?

[Lingrah]

17 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Id really get a MSP or other IT service provider in here, there is a lot to know, and a lot that can do done wrong(like whats your plan for PCI compliance?)

 

Id probably backup to a cloud serivce.

 

What pos system are you using?

 

What cameras are DVR are you using?

 

What os are those computers running? How many? Are they on a domain or managed at all?

1. agreed

 

2. That's the plan. I want to back up locally and cloud. Internet here sucks so having a close backup is important, but in case of fires and such having off site cloud is important.

 

3. We are on clover, thinking of going to Axis.

 

4. Not sure. Going in to check that this evening.

 

5. 2 computers. 1 running windows. The other runs a custom OS from clover. But when we implement the new POS system were looking at probably 2 or 3 windows PCs + the security system.

 

Edit: oh also PCI compliance. Currently managed by a local company (no idea what), will probably switch to Axis if their rates are fair.

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, TotalLegitREMIX said:

1. agreed

 

2. That's the plan. I want to back up locally and cloud. Internet here sucks so having a close backup is important, but in case of fires and such having off site cloud is important.

 

3. We are on clover, thinking of going to Axis.

 

4. Not sure. Going in to check that this evening.

 

5. 2 computers. 1 running windows. The other runs a custom OS from clover. But when we implement the new POS system were looking at probably 2 or 3 windows PCs + the security system.

See how the dvr wants to be backed up, really depends on the model.

 

Id probably just setup something like the windows backup for the pc, and backblaze or similar.

 

Ask the pos how it wants to be backed up, but I think the with cloud based ones, there isn't really anything to backup, if it fails you can just sign into a new unit(haven't work with this brand of pos before, but thats kinda like how toast works).

 

What internet speeds do you have?

[DrEagleTalon]

Synology NAS is 100% the answer. Easy to use. Has all those capabilities baked in and easy to use. Works great, great support. I swear by them. Use 2 at home and have 6 for my business altogether. 

[Lingrah]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

See how the dvr wants to be backed up, really depends on the model.

 

Id probably just setup something like the windows backup for the pc, and backblaze or similar.

 

Ask the pos how it wants to be backed up, but I think the with cloud based ones, there isn't really anything to backup, if it fails you can just sign into a new unit(haven't work with this brand of pos before, but thats kinda like how toast works).

 

What internet speeds do you have?

Will check on the DVR, might have to make some calls to get specifics.

 

Do you have a specific physical server you'd recommend? I've built a couple dozen desktops, but I have zero idea what type of hardware is good in a server, and since it's not my money I'd rather buy a prebuilt, then just deal with the software.

 

We will talk about their backup options soon. They offer a cloud based backup, but the service itself is stored locally. We also want to have our own backup for all important documents from sale logs, inventory, 4473s etc. that right now are taking up the entire second floor.

 

We have already had hour+ long calls with many POS systems, and they are by far our favorite right now, but they certainly aren't perfect.

[Lingrah]

5 minutes ago, DrEagleTalon said:

Synology NAS is 100% the answer. Easy to use. Has all those capabilities baked in and easy to use. Works great, great support. I swear by them. Use 2 at home and have 6 for my business altogether. 

Looking into them after the previous person's comment, I'm liking them so far. Do they have good software to upload to an external cloud?

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 minute ago, TotalLegitREMIX said:

Do you have a specific physical server you'd recommend? I've built a couple dozen desktops, but I have zero idea what type of hardware is good in a server, and since it's not my money I'd rather buy a prebuilt, then just deal with the software.

 

I don't really see the need for a onsite server here, Just use a cloud backup solution for the data, and a external hdd for the desktop for backups. Let the other devices backup as recommended by the manafacture.

2 minutes ago, TotalLegitREMIX said:

We will talk about their backup options soon. They offer a cloud based backup, but the service itself is stored locally. We also want to have our own backup for all important documents from sale logs, inventory, 4473s etc. that right now are taking up the entire second floor.

 

Where are these documents stored? on the windows pc? 

[Lingrah]

7 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

I don't really see the need for a onsite server here, Just use a cloud backup solution for the data, and a external hdd for the desktop for backups. Let the other devices backup as recommended by the manafacture.

Where are these documents stored? on the windows pc? 

Yes windows PC. Uploading to a cloud and an external hard drive would definitely be a cheaper option that tbh would be enough, if not for the security system. From what I was told (I'll investigate myself) there is no way to offload the data from the security system, without a physical device right beside it. If we're gonna get a computer to offload and upload that data, I'd rather spend a few extra bucks for the server, and have that for anything else we may need 

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, TotalLegitREMIX said:

Yes windows PC. Uploading to a cloud and an external hard drive would definitely be a cheaper option that tbh would be enough, if not for the security system. From what I was told (I'll investigate myself) there is no way to offload the data from the security system, without a physical device right beside it. If we're gonna get a computer to offload and upload that data, I'd rather spend a few extra bucks for the server, and have that for anything else we may need 

Really get a IT provider to help you here

 

What are the requirements of the system that you plug into the security system?

 

What internet speeds do you have? What birate are you recording video at? You might not have enought speed to backup the video.

 

 

[DrEagleTalon]

29 minutes ago, TotalLegitREMIX said:

Looking into them after the previous person's comment, I'm liking them so far. Do they have good software to upload to an external cloud?

Yes they do. Cloud Sync. I sync my Onedrive, Google Drive, Dropbox, etc with it and you can do it Bidirectional or One Way. Again, all very intuitive and easy. 

[Lingrah]

10 minutes ago, DrEagleTalon said:

Yes they do. Cloud Sync. I sync my Onedrive, Google Drive, Dropbox, etc with it and you can do it Bidirectional or One Way. Again, all very intuitive and easy. 

Awesome to hear! Thank you

[Lingrah]

2 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Really get a IT provider to help you here

My grandparents are very old school. As much as I agree with you here, this is the best they are gonna get (convincing them to spent $0.05 is hard, let alone hire an IT pro). Anything I can do is a GREAT improvement over their current system.

I have done a couple of small IT jobs through my life, this one is riding the line between what I know, and out of my league (I installed their first computer system half a decade ago, but I was far more inexperienced and they only went from a single old computer, to an actually useable system. This most recent one was installed by Clover themselves, and might be fine if it wasn't dealing with firearms, which clover has 0 support for). Most everything I can take care of myself, but the couple areas I am gray in, I am asking for help here and hoping to learn the rest along the way.

2 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

What are the requirements of the system that you plug into the security system?

Have to take a look at that tomorrow. I didn't realize the time when I said earlier I was about to visit today to figure that out. If I can't figure it out through looking at the system, I can call the guy who set it up. By my understandings I can export to a system through a LAN connection, I hope this is the case.

2 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

What internet speeds do you have? What birate are you recording video at? You might not have enought speed to backup the video.

That is what I am afraid of. I need to look at the current system to see how much storage a single day's video takes. If it is too high to upload, I may look into at least having an on-sight backup that will last longer than their current setup (not nearly long enough). If that means just throwing another couple drives in the current DVR so be it, but I'd rather have it on a system easier to view and playback than the "crappy" DVR (it is actually really good, but convenient playback is not it's strong suit).

 

If I don't have the internet to do a nightly or better twice daily upload, I will try to convince them to upgrade it. If I can't, I will at least set the main couple of angles to upload (the tiny store is loaded to the brim with cameras (3 pointed at the front door alone. You can see the nose hairs of anybody walking in the door). At least I want to have the counter overview, door, parking lot, etc backed up for 3-6 months).

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 minute ago, TotalLegitREMIX said:

Have to take a look at that tomorrow. I didn't realize the time when I said earlier I was about to visit today to figure that out. If I can't figure it out through looking at the system, I can call the guy who set it up. By my understandings I can export to a system through a LAN connection, I hope this is the case.

This might affect your options a good amount, see if it has a smb share or simmilar.

 

2 minutes ago, TotalLegitREMIX said:

If I don't have the internet to do a nightly or better twice daily upload, I will try to convince them to upgrade it. If I can't, I will at least set the main couple of angles to upload (the tiny store is loaded to the brim with cameras (3 pointed at the front door alone. You can see the nose hairs of anybody walking in the door). At least I want to have the counter overview, door, parking lot, etc backed up for 3-6 months).

Probably gonna want like 10mBit upload at least.

 

A synology nas backed up a s3 or simmilar isn't a bad idea here, Then use software veeam to backup the pc to it.

[Lingrah]

15 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

This might affect your options a good amount, see if it has a smb share or simmilar.

 

Probably gonna want like 10mBit upload at least.

 

A synology nas backed up a s3 or simmilar isn't a bad idea here, Then use software veeam to backup the pc to it.

Thanks for the tip about SMB. I was under the impression that was terribly slow, but a quick google search tells otherwise.

 

I am terribly disappointed by the lack of information regarding S3 available without emailing them. I remember a few years back using amazon file hosts to backup my game server daily because I didn't have the space to do it locally, and it was incredible easy. I had to email them here just to get any idea of what is going on. But I shot them an email, hope to hear back soon.

 

Also doesn't amazon's cloud storage system have their own software? Why would I need veeam in this situation?

 

Thank you so much for all your help and support. As I said before, setting up servers for something like this is uncharted territory for me. But hey, what better time to learn than when a small business depends on you not fucking up for their entire POS system to work : D  (mostly joking, I can do almost everything needed of me with confidence, I just have no experience with servers aside from an old desktop I retrofitted to run my game servers and whatever other small server stuff I need/want it to do like a pi-hole not on an raspberry pi)

[Electronics Wizardy]

8 minutes ago, Lingrah said:

Also doesn't amazon's cloud storage system have their own software? Why would I need veeam in this situation?

 

veeam would be for backing up the pc to the nas. you can use many other pieces of software here, but I like veeam. 

 

9 minutes ago, Lingrah said:

am terribly disappointed by the lack of information regarding S3 available without emailing them. I remember a few years back using amazon file hosts to backup my game server daily because I didn't have the space to do it locally, and it was incredible easy. I had to email them here just to get any idea of what is going on. But I shot them an email, hope to hear back soon.

 

Setup a aws account and its pretty easy to add it to your synology or other system. Or use one of the compatible systems like backblaze and wasabi.

 

 

I have worked with many a small buiness/resturant, and there is a lot of messy IT systems.

 

Also PCI compliance, make sure you meet that, it will screw you over if you don't(basically needed if you take credit cards)