Samsung 970 and MSI motherboard compatibility

[watts300]

I’m becoming confused by specs and trying to learn them. I have this:

 

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/Z170A-GAMING-M5/Specification

 

I want to buy this:

 

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07BN4NJ2J/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_jge1FbQQF9P88?psc=1
 

Will the drive work at full speed?  Looking for an upgrade from the SATA 2.5” I have now. 

 

[Jurrunio]

It will run full speed only when other storage like SATA drives are not in use. You're limited by the bandwidth from CPU to chipset here (which is also PCIe 3.0 x4 equivalent).

[Fasauceome]

7 minutes ago, watts300 said:

 Looking for an upgrade from the SATA 2.5” I have now. 

 

an upgrade for what purposes?

7 minutes ago, watts300 said:

Will the drive work at full speed?

The Z170 chipset will supply 4x PCIe 3.0 lanes to the NVMe drive.

[watts300]

4 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

It will run full speed only when other storage like SATA drives are not in use. You're limited by the bandwidth from CPU to chipset here (which is also PCIe 3.0 x4 equivalent).

Okay so any other storage would need to be external to not slow down the 970?

 

[watts300]

4 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

an upgrade for what purposes?

The Z170 chipset will supply 4x PCIe 3.0 lanes to the NVMe drive.

I’m not sure what you mean - an upgrade to improve performance. 

[Jurrunio]

2 minutes ago, watts300 said:

Okay so any other storage would need to be external to not slow down the 970?

 

Nothing else, internal nor external, can be used to completely not slow down the 970. Intel's consumer platform has everything connected through the chipset unless you have an expensive board that can cut the graphics card's PCIe bandwidth and give that to something else.

[Fasauceome]

4 minutes ago, watts300 said:

I’m not sure what you mean - an upgrade to improve performance. 

"performance" can manifest itself in different ways. But when it comes to something like a gaming computer for example, this upgrade is just something you don't notice.

 

lot of hubbub about what features might be implemented in the future due to the current gen consoles and their cool SSD technology, but the fact of the matter is that an NVMe SSD just doesn't bring a large benefit to every user out there in the here and now.

[watts300]

4 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Nothing else, internal nor external, can be used to completely not slow down the 970. Intel's consumer platform has everything connected through the chipset unless you have an expensive board that can cut the graphics card's PCIe bandwidth and give that to something else.

Are you referring to the generation of board I have? Do newer motherboard platforms have features that don’t create a bottleneck like that?  I would be nice to have a fast NVMe boot drive and still use the slower 2.5” sata ssds I have currently. If a new MB purchase would mean that ability, I’d find myself considering a new MB.

[watts300]

6 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

"performance" can manifest itself in different ways. But when it comes to something like a gaming computer for example, this upgrade is just something you don't notice.

 

lot of hubbub about what features might be implemented in the future due to the current gen consoles and their cool SSD technology, but the fact of the matter is that an NVMe SSD just doesn't bring a large benefit to every user out there in the here and now.

Ok I see what you mean. It’s a daily driver computer. Media consumption. And also gaming yes. I’m looking for a path to give it a refresh. Currently has a 980ti, too. I figured an NVMe drive would be a nice-to-have in the meantime until 3070s start to exist in the wild again. 

[Fasauceome]

3 minutes ago, watts300 said:

Ok I see what you mean. It’s a daily driver computer. Media consumption. And also gaming yes. I’m looking for a path to give it a refresh. Currently has a 980ti, too. I figured an NVMe drive would be a nice-to-have in the meantime until 3070s start to exist in the wild again. 

NVMe drives are neat, but when it comes to sprucing up an old media PC, it might be just a new SSD itself that's not worn out to give it a new lease on life. Or even just reformatting and reinstalling on your current SSD could be a nice little pick me up for the computer.

 

The 970 evo is a production professional's SSD anyway, if you did want to pursue the benefits of an NVMe SSD there are more affordable options that cut the mustard. Not to mention, the dram vs dram-less factor is significantly less important, due to the fact that NVMe drives can grab a few MB of system memory as cache instead of using nand cells.

[Jurrunio]

13 minutes ago, watts300 said:

Are you referring to the generation of board I have? Do newer motherboard platforms have features that don’t create a bottleneck like that?  I would be nice to have a fast NVMe boot drive and still use the slower 2.5” sata ssds I have currently. If a new MB purchase would mean that ability, I’d find myself considering a new MB.

I'm talking about Intel's design. Realistically the difference will only be noticed in benchmarks.

[watts300]

4 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

NVMe drives are neat, but when it comes to sprucing up an old media PC, it might be just a new SSD itself that's not worn out to give it a new lease on life. Or even just reformatting and reinstalling on your current SSD could be a nice little pick me up for the computer.

 

The 970 evo is a production professional's SSD anyway, if you did want to pursue the benefits of an NVMe SSD there are more affordable options that cut the mustard. Not to mention, the dram vs dram-less factor is significantly less important, due to the fact that NVMe drives can grab a few MB of system memory as cache instead of using nand cells.

Dare I ask ... do you have a recommendation for another technology that would still be an upgrade?  
 

The sata drive I have now is whatever 6Gbps is in real-life usage. If that can be bumped up with a new drive but still allow me to use other (slower) drives (the ones I have now) then I’d like to do that. 
 

Otherwise, I’ll consider an erase and reinstall. 

[watts300]

Just now, Jurrunio said:

I'm talking about Intel's design. Realistically the difference will only be noticed in benchmarks.

Even in open world 3D gaming?  I would have thought faster storage technology would help with that. 

[TylerDurden!]

10 minutes ago, watts300 said:

I figured an NVMe drive would be a nice-to-have

Yes it would, just buy it.  It will speed up your boot time & programs will open faster.  You could save a few dollars and get something else, but why bother.  Get the 1TB if possible, but the 512 will work great too.

[Fasauceome]

8 minutes ago, watts300 said:

Dare I ask ... do you have a recommendation for another technology that would still be an upgrade?  

honestly, as I keep building computers for clients, I struggle to find any difference in the experience between SATA and NVMe drives in daily usage on a gaming computer. I run an NVMe drive in my personal rig and my brother's SSD is a mega cheapo SATA SSD with no DRAM, and guess what? his desktop actually provides a smoother general experience (not factoring in the radically different gaming performance due to other hardware differences)

 

7 minutes ago, watts300 said:

Even in open world 3D gaming?  I would have thought faster storage technology would help with that. 

to a point, that is true, but when it comes to slow storage being a major factor, it's when you're using a mechanical hard drive for your boot drive and  the game you're running, and it's far from a universal problem.

 

2 minutes ago, TylerDurden! said:

Yes it would, just buy it.  It will speed up your boot time & programs will open faster.  You could save a few dollars and get something else, but why bother.  Get the 1TB if possible, but the 512 will work great too.

the point me and @Jurrunio are making is that the drive is indeed faster, but not in a noticeable way that justifies the added cost. Also the "just buy it" mentality has its own problems...

[watts300]

5 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

honestly, as I keep building computers for clients, I struggle to find any difference in the experience between SATA and NVMe drives in daily usage on a gaming computer. I run an NVMe drive in my personal rig and my brother's SSD is a mega cheapo SATA SSD with no DRAM, and guess what? his desktop actually provides a smoother general experience (not factoring in the radically different gaming performance due to other hardware differences)

 

to a point, that is true, but when it comes to slow storage being a major factor, it's when you're using a mechanical hard drive for your boot drive and  the game you're running, and it's far from a universal problem.

Very interesting. It also sounds like if a difference is noticed (as you said, it probably wouldn’t) it doesn’t come with a good trade-off. I don’t like not being able to use sata drives unless it slows down the rest of it.  
 

I feel like I’ve learned that my current PC status is “It’s still good enough, just upgrade the video card.” Which is fine by me. 

[Jurrunio]

1 hour ago, watts300 said:

Even in open world 3D gaming?  I would have thought faster storage technology would help with that. 

Cities Skylines, yes. Newest assassin's creed or watch dogz games? Not really.

[TylerDurden!]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:52 PM, Fasauceome said:

not in a noticeable way that justifies the added cost

I beg to differ kind sir, ever since going to nvme drives, everything is faster, from just booting to opening programs installed on the nvme drive.  For storage I stick with the ol' spinning drives. and for $60, I would say it is a small price/investment that is worth it, plus it gives you more space for adding other drives if need be.  Y'all are treating nvme drives like they are snake oil products.   I am saying just buy it too, not out of just to make an impulse buy, but because I have already been through the research and using the actual products to justify a purchase.  I have learned from "just buying" stuff too, and the last time that happened, I bought the brand new 8600gt when it came out for $200 back in 2007, thought I was upgrading my 6600gt.  That still irritates me everytime I think about it.

[Fasauceome]

1 hour ago, TylerDurden! said:

I beg to differ kind sir, ever since going to nvme drives, everything is faster, from just booting to opening programs installed on the nvme drive.  For storage I stick with the ol' spinning drives. and for $60, I would say it is a small price/investment that is worth it, plus it gives you more space for adding other drives if need be.  Y'all are treating nvme drives like they are snake oil products.   I am saying just buy it too, not out of just to make an impulse buy, but because I have already been through the research and using the actual products to justify a purchase.  I have learned from "just buying" stuff too, and the last time that happened, I bought the brand new 8600gt when it came out for $200 back in 2007, thought I was upgrading my 6600gt.  That still irritates me everytime I think about it.

I've got tons of experience with both NVMe drives and sata drives as boot devices. I won't say I have more than you because I don't know your background, but in my experience with IT and many years building PCs, I've had my hands on just about every system configuration you can think of.

 

I didn't say they were snake oil, I said they have a purpose. No, there's no difference in boot speeds, not one that you can notice.

 

Though one would naturally assume they were faster if they were refreshing an old system with an SSD filled with bloat, which people tend to do, so they assume the NVMe factor is what improved their experience, when in reality it was just clean software.

 

I also use classic hard drives for mass storage, not sure how that's relevant here. But when it comes to windows on a 970 evo vs an 860 evo, you can't tell the difference. And if you did your "research" properly, you'd know that every content piece that did a blind trial of NVMe vs SATA SSD experiences resulted in an inability to correctly guess which system was using which. Side by side comparisons show mere seconds in difference when loading large games.

 

 

Like I said, you won't be finding any side by side comparisons that show gamers benefiting from NVMe speeds. Even this video's conclusion is that if you get a PCIe drive for a gaming PC, the best you stand to gaming from is a really cheap PCIe 3.0 drive. Although I do disagree with their point regarding that, as they didn't show any data that supports the benefit to general system responsiveness on an NVMe drive and I have yet to see that myself.

 

 

The PCIe bandwidth is in the realm of content creators and professionals only, for now. On paper, the drives are faster, but I am arguing purely from an experience standpoint. For which, all the data suggests that any SATA SSD is fast, and for gamers, that's all that matters.

[TylerDurden!]

10 hours ago, Fasauceome said:

side by side comparisons

How about after 6 months or even a year or more of usage.  In the beginning it is always hard to tell, because even a spinning harddrive would seem fast. I always used to do a fresh install once a year just to bring my own system back to life, but since putting in an nvme drive, it has made me lazy and I keep putting it off (actually going on 2 years since my last install on my main system)   Of course for this extended time comparison of performance, we would have to find very similar systems that get beat on everyday. 

 

As for gamers, once the game loads, as this usually is the slowest part, you would probably not be able to tell what type of drive it was running on.  For the enthusiast, they want something better even if it is only saving them a few seconds or more, here and there.   and the prices are the essentially the same for the 970 and 860evo, so why not get the "better" one, even if it is only on paper. 

 

I have eight drives in my main system too, so I need the space, and by using the slot the MB manufacturer kindly put on the board, it opens up a drive bay to cram another portly drive in there.

 

anyway, as this is teetering on a hijack (sorta) of the thread, so I will rest my case.  Now the OP is more undecided/confused than before he came here

Till next time

[watts300]

On 12/13/2020 at 2:53 PM, TylerDurden! said:

 Now the OP is more undecided/confused than before he came here

 

No not really. The inability to use any other drives (without slow-down) with NVMe is a dealbreaker. In the thread I learned about usage for any future builds, but for the build I have now, SATA 2.5 drives will do.