Advice on a new CPU / cooler.

[Saluth]

Hello, I was hoping for some advice on a new CPU if someone has a spare moment?  My Coolermaster silencio 452 is making an awful rattle so I need to replace it.  Since I'm replacing that I was wondering if I should spend a bit extra and replace my CPU.  I currently have a Intel Core I5 8400 and a 1080ti, along with 16gb of ddr4 ram.  Is this setup going to cause an serious bottlenecking and, if so, should I look at getting a new CPU and if so what cooler should I get to go along side it?  My motherboard is a MSI Z370-A-Pro if that helps?  Thanks for any advice you can give, it's greatly appreciated.

[5x5]

I'd wait for now and sell the i5/board and get Zen 3 in September.

[Saluth]

8 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

I'd wait for now and sell the i5/board and get Zen 3 in September.

I'm awful at building PC's so may not be an option 

[LIGISTX]

9 minutes ago, Saluth said:

I'm awful at building PC's so may not be an option 

What mobo do you have? If you can find a good deal on a used 8700 for instance, that would be a really good upgrade. If the board is a Z series chipset and supports overclocking, an 8700k @ 4.8 GHz for example is about as good as it can get for gaming. A 10900k, 9900k, 10700k etc are faster, but an 8700k at 4.8+ is right up there with them, and even just a normal 8700 non k is a fantastic gaming chip

[5x5]

13 minutes ago, Saluth said:

I'm awful at building PC's so may not be an option 

In that case nothing is an option. Any upgrade will require you to disassemble the PC

 

2 minutes ago, LIGISTX said:

What mobo do you have? If you can find a good deal on a used 8700 for instance, that would be a really good upgrade. If the board is a Z series chipset and supports overclocking, an 8700k @ 4.8 GHz for example is about as good as it can get for gaming. A 10900k, 9900k, 10700k etc are faster, but an 8700k at 4.8+ is right up there with them, and even just a normal 8700 non k is a fantastic gaming chip

The 10000 series will not work on his board and as an i7 8th gen owner i do NOT recommend the 8700K in any way, shape or form. That is, unless he wants the hottest CPU to have been released in the past 20 years (Seriously, that thing runs extremely hot). Considering it's only barely faster than a Ryzen 5 3600X and will be slower than the upcoming 4600(X) - the i7 makes absolutely no sense once you factor in the hefty cooler price.

[LIGISTX]

1 minute ago, 5x5 said:

The 10000 series will not work on his board and as an i7 8th gen owner i do NOT recommend the 8700K in any way, shape or form. That is, unless he wants the hottest CPU to have been released in the past 20 years (Seriously, that thing runs extremely hot). Considering it's only barely faster than a Ryzen 5 3600X and will be slower than the upcoming 4600(X) - the i7 makes absolutely no sense once you factor in the hefty cooler price.

Obviously 10 series won't work, I am just making a point of "in the scheme of all CPU's, the 8700k is a very high performer". I was simply saying, compared to all options, the 8700k is up there with the best of them. 10 series does beat it out, as you would expect, but the 8700k beats out just about everything else, Ryzen doesn't even come close, especially when you overclock it.

 

I had an 8700k @ 5 GHz, 1.300v, it ran at those speeds on a Hyper 212 evo, max temps in the low 90's in AIDA64.... its not hard to cool. Its not "easy" to cool, but its also not hard. On the water loop in my sig, it ran in the 70's at that speed and voltage.... my 9900k@ 5 GHz is in the low 90's. That.... is a hard CPU to keep cool. But I also got an especially bad 9900k from a thermal perspective. It does good on volts, but very poor on heat.

 

The 8700 makes sense though, there is no cost to upgrade besides buying a new CPU. No new mobo required saves ~150 bucks right off the bat. Being a drop in replacement, and also being one of the best gaming chips out there.... hard to argue against it.

 

Bellow are a few charts from gamers nexus. The 8700k trades blows with the 9700k in most situations for gaming, so you can look at 9700k overclock numbers to get a feel for 8700k overclock numbers. Even at stock, its right up there....

 

[5x5]

Nice fairy tales - but the day you run an 8700K @ 5GHz on a 212 EVO is the day pigs fly. It's not humanly possible. Instead of lying about magical i7s - tell the OP the truth.

The 8700K needs a delid if you want thermals under 90*C under load. It also needs liquid metal and sanding of the IHS. It's a lot of hassle for what is, essentially, performance only 3% higher than a stock 3600X - we've tested this. Even the graphs above show the stock 8700K basically neck and neck with a stock 3700X

Sure, if you blast insane voltage and power at Intel, they'll run 5-8% faster but at that point you're cooling a 300W space heater and living next to a miniature sun with triple the power consumption of a Ryzen 5 3600X. TRIPLE. That's insanity. I do not recommend it, I would not buy my i7 again if given the choice and I would NOT recommend the OP invest in a shit CPU just because it runs on his existing board.

@Saluth unless you plan the scalp your CPU, apply conductive metal to it and run it with heavy cooling, an i7 is NOT worth it. If you still want one, you can have mine - have been looking at selling it. It's a nightmare to use and makes me sweat whenever I have to do actual work or play demanding games as it's, once again, a 200-300W CPU.

Your best option is waiting 2 months and buying Zen 3 (Ryzen 4000) - it'll be MUCH cheaper, use 1/3 the power, run SEVERAL TIMES cooler and on top of that it will be faster. THat part is 100% guaranteed. I cannot say more but the Ryzen 5 4600 will shame the i7 and i9 models above.

[Zando_]

36 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Sure, if you blast insane voltage and power at Intel, they'll run 5-8% faster but at that point you're cooling a 300W space heater and living next to a miniature sun with triple the power consumption of a Ryzen 5 3600X. TRIPLE. That's insanity. I do not recommend it, I would not buy my i7 again if given the choice and I would NOT recommend the OP invest in a shit CPU just because it runs on his existing board.

If you push a current 10 core chip and run AVX workloads all day long, yeah. But even my chunky 6950X is docile under normal use, power consumption under gaming for that + 8 sticks of DDR4 + a 2060 Super is around 330-350W from the PSU, about 10% higher from the wall. 

 

But yeah, waiting for Zen 3 if you want value is probs the best bet, the 8400 isn't so slow that it warrants upgrading immediately unless you play specifically high refresh rate Battlefield V or something like that, which will actually choke with less than 8 cores. I had an i5 8400 for a bit and it had 0 issues running with my RVII (same performance as a 1080 Ti, little bit better at high resolutions) even at 1080p. I was using 16GB of basic 2400Mhz DDR4 with that combo too. 

[LIGISTX]

44 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Nice fairy tales - but the day you run an 8700K @ 5GHz on a 212 EVO is the day pigs fly. It's not humanly possible. Instead of lying about magical i7s - tell the OP the truth.

The 8700K needs a delid if you want thermals under 90*C under load. It also needs liquid metal and sanding of the IHS. It's a lot of hassle for what is, essentially, performance only 3% higher than a stock 3600X - we've tested this. Even the graphs above show the stock 8700K basically neck and neck with a stock 3700X

Sure, if you blast insane voltage and power at Intel, they'll run 5-8% faster but at that point you're cooling a 300W space heater and living next to a miniature sun with triple the power consumption of a Ryzen 5 3600X. TRIPLE. That's insanity. I do not recommend it, I would not buy my i7 again if given the choice and I would NOT recommend the OP invest in a shit CPU just because it runs on his existing board.

@Saluth unless you plan the scalp your CPU, apply conductive metal to it and run it with heavy cooling, an i7 is NOT worth it. If you still want one, you can have mine - have been looking at selling it. It's a nightmare to use and makes me sweat whenever I have to do actual work or play demanding games as it's, once again, a 200-300W CPU.

Your best option is waiting 2 months and buying Zen 3 (Ryzen 4000) - it'll be MUCH cheaper, use 1/3 the power, run SEVERAL TIMES cooler and on top of that it will be faster. THat part is 100% guaranteed. I cannot say more but the Ryzen 5 4600 will shame the i7 and i9 models above.

Id love to see your testing, because that isn't supported by the graphs I provided as far as performance goes, nor is it supported by my 8700k... Granted, 1.300v is pretty low voltage for 5 GHz, but it did it, and it did it on a hype 212. No delid, no liquid metal, I use Kryonaut.

 

Also, no 8700k is going to draw 300 watts.... Thats insane. My 8700k @5 ghz, 2080 @ 2025, basically the rig in my sig just with a diff mobo and CPU, drew 475 watts from the wall under full load, some fluctuations up to ~500's. If your pumping 300 watts through an 8700k, besides it requiring LN2 to cool it, your going to fry it. That isn't a daily driver power draw. 

 

Anyways, besides your numbers here being literally insane, yes, an 8700k does about the same as a 3700x/3950, depending on the game. But that those are not cheap parts, they are not abundant on the used market, and they require a new mobo. There is nothing wrong with spending ~200 bucks on a used 8700k and gaining a lot of performance. Its a great CPU, I have no idea why you are saying its not. It performs very, very well.

 

Also, saying its a nightmare to use, this... is nonsensical. Its a CPU, same as any other CPU. Pop it in a mobo, and it works. Why do you say its a nightmare to use? Why does it make you worry about running applications on it? Do you have an inadequate VRM on your mobo and your worried because of that, your going to fry something? That isn't a fault of the CPU, that would be a fault of using a subpar board.

 

Anyways.... Back to reality, my 9900k @ 5 ghz doesn't pull anywhere near 300 watts, it barely breaks 200 watts. 

 

Also, curious how gamers nexus, with a current clamp on the 12v eps lines... sees, oh, wow, NOT 200-300 watts in a blender load. And game load is even more sensible...

 

In blender, its pulling 130 watts, that seems about right. 

 

So, I would love to see your data, because it directly contradicts what Gamers Nexus has, and my own experience. Saying its going to draw 300 watts in literally insane. It would take LN2, and one hell of a VRM to be able to push 300 watts to an 8700k. It is possible, but only in the 6 GHz+ range. I will agree, without a good mobo, I wouldn't try and overclock an 8700k, but that is more a function of mobo manufacturers not building good enough VRM's on lower tier Z boards.

 

Anyways, real data bellow... @Saluth, don't worry, an 8700 won't just... explode, and its itsn't "difficult" to use. My 8700k was actually one of the easiest CPU's I have overclocked in a while. My delid 4770k was pretty easy, my 6700k took a little more time, and my 9900k took FOREVER to dial in.

[Saluth]

On 7/10/2020 at 9:17 PM, LIGISTX said:

Id love to see your testing, because that isn't supported by the graphs I provided as far as performance goes, nor is it supported by my 8700k... Granted, 1.300v is pretty low voltage for 5 GHz, but it did it, and it did it on a hype 212. No delid, no liquid metal, I use Kryonaut.

 

Also, no 8700k is going to draw 300 watts.... Thats insane. My 8700k @5 ghz, 2080 @ 2025, basically the rig in my sig just with a diff mobo and CPU, drew 475 watts from the wall under full load, some fluctuations up to ~500's. If your pumping 300 watts through an 8700k, besides it requiring LN2 to cool it, your going to fry it. That isn't a daily driver power draw. 

 

Anyways, besides your numbers here being literally insane, yes, an 8700k does about the same as a 3700x/3950, depending on the game. But that those are not cheap parts, they are not abundant on the used market, and they require a new mobo. There is nothing wrong with spending ~200 bucks on a used 8700k and gaining a lot of performance. Its a great CPU, I have no idea why you are saying its not. It performs very, very well.

 

Also, saying its a nightmare to use, this... is nonsensical. Its a CPU, same as any other CPU. Pop it in a mobo, and it works. Why do you say its a nightmare to use? Why does it make you worry about running applications on it? Do you have an inadequate VRM on your mobo and your worried because of that, your going to fry something? That isn't a fault of the CPU, that would be a fault of using a subpar board.

 

Anyways.... Back to reality, my 9900k @ 5 ghz doesn't pull anywhere near 300 watts, it barely breaks 200 watts. 

 

Also, curious how gamers nexus, with a current clamp on the 12v eps lines... sees, oh, wow, NOT 200-300 watts in a blender load. And game load is even more sensible...

 

In blender, its pulling 130 watts, that seems about right. 

 

So, I would love to see your data, because it directly contradicts what Gamers Nexus has, and my own experience. Saying its going to draw 300 watts in literally insane. It would take LN2, and one hell of a VRM to be able to push 300 watts to an 8700k. It is possible, but only in the 6 GHz+ range. I will agree, without a good mobo, I wouldn't try and overclock an 8700k, but that is more a function of mobo manufacturers not building good enough VRM's on lower tier Z boards.

 

Anyways, real data bellow... @Saluth, don't worry, an 8700 won't just... explode, and its itsn't "difficult" to use. My 8700k was actually one of the easiest CPU's I have overclocked in a while. My delid 4770k was pretty easy, my 6700k took a little more time, and my 9900k took FOREVER to dial in.

Thank you very much for all your help with this, I really didn't expect people to give so much advice!  It's very much appreciated.  If I was after a fairly simple upgrade would going from my I5 8400 to I5 8600 make much of a difference?  I have a MSI Z370-A PRO DDR4 LGA1151 motherboard if that makes a difference?  My current coolermaster Seidon 240V RL-S24v is buzzing so need to replace that too?  Again, thank you for your time!

[LIGISTX]

6 hours ago, Saluth said:

Thank you very much for all your help with this, I really didn't expect people to give so much advice!  It's very much appreciated.  If I was after a fairly simple upgrade would going from my I5 8400 to I5 8600 make much of a difference?  I have a MSI Z370-A PRO DDR4 LGA1151 motherboard if that makes a difference?  My current coolermaster Seidon 240V RL-S24v is buzzing so need to replace that too?  Again, thank you for your time!

I wouldn’t go to a 8600, it’s just not worth the money. That wouldn’t really give you much of an upgrade.

 

That mobo is meh, I had one and was able to run my 8700k at 5ghz on it, but only because my chip didn’t need much voltage to do it; the VRM on that board is not very good thus overclocking an 8700k is not a great idea on it. It’ll run it just fine stock, and with a minor overclock it would possibly be ok, but if you plan to hit it with real load like rendering or video editing for hours (not just gaming), I would say don’t overclock an 8700k at all on that board. If your very diligent about voltage, and you get a decent 8700k, if you can do an all core OC of 4.7 with something less than 1.275v, it would be fine I would think. But even then, maybe overclocking just isn’t totally worth it on that board. It’s just a risk... and it won’t gain you all that much performance anyways. 

 

An 8700k, even stock, is a pretty solid performer for gaming. Picking up 6 more threads, and a massive turbo clock gain, it would make a noticeable difference, and I bet you can find 8700k’s used for 200 bucks. 
 

Give this a read and check these charts out. They have 8400 FPS numbers to compare to. It’s not a MASSIVE difference from a 8400 to an 8700k, but 15-20% gain seems about what to expect. And as games need more threads, like far cry 5 which is horrible 1% lows on i5 chips, the i7 will just be better and better.

 

Or, you can hold off all together for ~6 more months, sell your mobo and CPU, and pick up someone new from AMD, but that will cost you ~130-150 in a new mobo, and ~280-350 in a new CPU. And that is assuming Ryzen 4000 makes a notable increase in gaming performance as right now, an 8700k, even stock, is better than any Ryzen chip for gaming, even if it’s only by a very small margin.

[LIGISTX]

@Saluth I never linked the link! Lol oops

 

https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3421-intel-i7-9700k-review-benchmark-vs-8700k-and-more