Microsoft experimenting with free version of Windows 8.1

[tacticalpanic]

The thing is there is no need for the start menu anymore for the little that I used the start menu for the start screen does a better job.

 

and thats perfectly fine for you , but the start menu is but one of the UI problems , the charm menu has no place on a desktop interface , and the built in windows 8 apps are full screen apps that force desktop users to find a mail/pdf/video player alternative. Theres no reson that microsoft cant give people the options of a classic interface if thats what people want, its just a GUI. 

[deathjester]

Looks like @deathjester has some more Win8 Hate that he didnt get out in the numerous other threads.

 

Looks like you and Goodbytes are always in the Windows 8 threads, insulting people who don't like the OS and he claimed FPS gains which are literally impossible, to sell a product.

 

He is allowed to post cartoons and insult anyone who doesn't like Win 8 though? That would include peoples wives, kids and family. I have used Windows OS's from as far back as DOS. I don't like Windows 8. So I am a caveman?

 

At least I don't post ridiculous claims of increased performance to sell an OS on a forum. 

 

So if we refute bogus statements we are "haters". If we don't like the product you are selling, we are ignorant cavemen. Awesome. Keep insulting the forum users, while defending people claiming impossible gains in a OS in games that don't take advantage of the new DirectX.

 

I don't need a cartoon to make fun of Win 8. I will just post a picture where it is compared to an older GUI.

 

 

ONLY TECH SAVVY PEOPLE LIKE THIS.

[TheProfosist]

and thats perfectly fine for you , but the start menu is but one of the UI problems , the charm menu has no place on a desktop interface , and the built in windows 8 apps are full screen apps that force desktop users to find a mail/pdf/video player alternative. Theres no reson that microsoft cant give people the options of a classic interface if thats what people want, its just a GUI.

Then disable it in the Navigation settings? Default them to something else and of course that are "Modern" apps as that what Microsoft was trying to push, it is also what is crossplatform. Windows 7 didnt have a mail client not a PDF reader so at least you got those now? As for the video player the standard Windows Media Player is still there as well as the photo viewer and to default it to something else is quite simple. They dont need to as has been proven in the past an even now 3rd party will fill in that gap. This happens anytime they or any massively used product or service changes the interface even in the slightest.

Looks like you and Goodbytes are always in the Windows 8 threads, insulting people who don't like the OS and he claimed FPS gains which are literally impossible, to sell a product.

 

He is allowed to post cartoons and insult anyone who doesn't like Win 8 though? That would include peoples wives, kids and family. I have used Windows OS's from as far back as DOS. I don't like Windows 8. So I am a caveman?

 

At least I don't post ridiculous claims of increased performance to sell an OS on a forum. 

 

So if we refute bogus statements we are "haters". If we don't like the product you are selling, we are ignorant cavemen. Awesome. Keep insulting the forum users, while defending people claiming impossible gains in a OS in games that don't take advantage of the new DirectX.

 

I don't need a cartoon to make fun of Win 8. I will just post a picture where it is compared to an older GUI.

 

 

ONLY TECH SAVVY PEOPLE LIKE THIS.

yes I am because i actually like windows 8. The new Win+X Menu, Task Manager, and File Transfer Queue alone sold it to me. There are still improvements that could be made to the later two and windows alone. One of the ones that I still really dislike is that inorder to properly manage WiFi networks you now have to use command line. In Win7 there was a nice GUI, though it cant do everything the CLI can it handles the basic stuff far quicker which is usually all I need it for.

Umm but im not him and I dont do that...

I dont do that either especially with games since I believe a is way more than something to be used for games.

I use that cause it rhymes and is catchy and yes I really think that new game should use new DirectX. I also think that programs should be multi-threaded and 64bit since i mean we have only had both of those things since the P4 era, Athlon 64 included. but companies continues to program to the lowest common denominator. I really wonder how many games eve use DX11 which is on Win7 to my knowledge its quite few, liely on par with DX10. DX10 did get a jump start though because there were a good number of games that launched shortly after vista and the 8000 series from nvidia that had it.

For that all I have top say is look at any tablet or smart phone out there and it doesnt look much different. Besides that if you dont want that, which the good majority of people would be fine using, go to the store and upgrade to 8.1. Once that is done hit Win+D and right click the taskbar and go to properties and the navigation tab and tweak it how you want. Just live on the desktop as you did before and use the start screen as the start menu.

[deathjester]

Then disable it in the Navigation settings? Default them to something else and of course that are "Modern" apps as that what Microsoft was trying to push, it is also what is crossplatform. Windows 7 didnt have a mail client not a PDF reader so at least you got those now? As for the video player the standard Windows Media Player is still there as well as the photo viewer and to default it to something else is quite simple. They dont need to as has been proven in the past an even now 3rd party will fill in that gap. This happens anytime they or any massively used product or service changes the interface even in the slightest.

yes I am because i actually like windows 8. The new Win+X Menu, Task Manager, and File Transfer Queue alone sold it to me. There are still improvements that could be made to the later two and windows alone. One of the ones that I still really dislike is that inorder to properly manage WiFi networks you now have to use command line. In Win7 there was a nice GUI, though it cant do everything the CLI can it handles the basic stuff far quicker which is usually all I need it for.

Umm but im not him and I dont do that...

I dont do that either especially with games since I believe a is way more than something to be used for games.

I use that cause it rhymes and is catchy and yes I really think that new game should use new DirectX. I also think that programs should be multi-threaded and 64bit since i mean we have only had both of those things since the P4 era, Athlon 64 included. but companies continues to program to the lowest common denominator. I really wonder how many games eve use DX11 which is on Win7 to my knowledge its quite few, liely on par with DX10. DX10 did get a jump start though because there were a good number of games that launched shortly after vista and the 8000 series from nvidia that had it.

For that all I have top say is look at any tablet or smart phone out there and it doesnt look much different. Besides that if you dont want that, which the good majority of people would be fine using, go to the store and upgrade to 8.1. Once that is done hit Win+D and right click the taskbar and go to properties and the navigation tab and tweak it how you want. Just live on the desktop as you did before and use the start screen as the start menu.

 

So let me get this straight. Goodbytes spends most of his time in MS threads defending the company and you do the same. He has resorted to claiming benchmarks that are impossible, reporting me to mods for calling him out on blatant false claims, for being "rude". You have both referred to people who don't like the OS (and they have given valid reasons in this and other threads) as cavemen, which is "rude".

 

You two do this because you are just super fans of Windows 8?

 

I have a question for both of you. 1) do you own stock in MS and stand to lose or gain money with the adoption of Windows 8 2)  Do you work or have you ever worked for Microsoft or a company doing advertising for Windows 8  3) are you a part of the MS evangelist program, which came to light in the Comes VS Microsoft trial.

 

If the answer to any of those is yes, then you are completely biased and are a salesmen on a tech forum. You simply shouldn't be in these threads or you should have a tag saying that you are a MS employee or salesmen. 

 

I have seen the exact same things in every tech forum from the same people. Bogus benchmarks and claims. Referring to people as cavemen. In fact that is exactly what was spelled out as a tactic on page 55 in the court documents.

 

http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03096.pdf

 

"Ideally use of competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency, as in "he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and OS/2. Just keep rubbing it in, via the PRESS, analysts, newsgroups, whatever".

 

Many people came to LTT to escape all the astroturfing. It is pretty sad when the same few people are always using the same old, tired tactics to sell products. So keep on reporting me, insulting people as not tech savvy. while claiming I am insulting you. All it is going to do is drive people from this forum, which I doubt this forum wants. If it was my forum? I would have a legal disclaimer saying if you work or advertise for a company it must be shown on the username/avatar, so that people would know they are getting a sales pitch.

 

IF you just really loved Windows 8? You would not be trying to sell it this hard to people that didn't like it and who have told you repeatedly why they don't like it and it goes far beyond a start bar. Anyone can look at the profile you two have and see that you both have an agenda.

 

I like Mac OS. Do you see me selling Hackintosh here 24/7? I could care less if people don't like Mac OS. I don't even really like Apple as a company. Do you see people here telling people to buy Win 7? No. I have in fact recommended they buy Win 8.1 if they are a gamer if they don't already have 7, simply because I know MS will not allow new DirectX revisions on Win 7. 

 

Anyways have fun selling people on this OS 24/7 and defending MS, and you expecting people to believe that you are doing it for no reason, other then you just really love Windows 8...

[GoodBytes]

No deathjester.

I spend time on forum, to correct your false claims, incomplete information that you gather and make your own conclusions which are wrong because you don't have all the information.

And you have a personal vendetta against Microsoft for some reason. So even if there is something really smart and genuinely really good, you'll bash it with a million and one excuse.

I already mentioned issues and flaws with Windows, and Microsoft. I no point in time I said that Microsoft is perfect. I don't have an XBox, any version, nor have all their products and services. There is a lot of things I disagree with Microsoft decision making. But what I do, is provide balance to thread, because you are so one sided, and provide false information to the community, it needs to be corrected.

So because you are so anti-Microsoft to the extreme, I am appearing pro-Microsoft to the extreme, because you prevent actual conversation and actual discussion on different things.

Also, you have been offensive to me. I contacted the mod, and let the mod judge on the case. I don't know what happened afterwards. So if you got contacted, that means that the mod that looked at the case, agreed. Simple as that. Talk to the mod or admin about it. This is out of my hands.

I don't want to answer any of the other questions you ask, because I already answered them.. looks like you copied and paste this from another of your post by the way, and it will just end up in a loop. I'll answer you no. And even if i show you my finances, you'll say how I am essentially a fake, or what not, by posting some 1995 document crap, which is common for ALL tech companies, on how I am paid to be against your view, and provide false information on forum, none sense.

[deathjester]

No deathjester.

I spend time on forum, to correct your false claims, incomplete information that you gather and make your own conclusions which are wrong because you don't have all the information.

And you have a personal vendetta against Microsoft for some reason. So even if there is something really smart and genuinely really good, you'll bash it with a million and one excuse.

I already mentioned issues and flaws with Windows, and Microsoft. I no point in time I said that Microsoft is perfect. I don't have an XBox, any version, nor have all their products and services. There is a lot of thing I disagree with Microsoft decision making. But what I do, is provide balance to thread, because you are so one sided, and provide false information to the community, which needs to be corrected.

So because you are so anti-Microsoft, I am appearing pro-Microsoft.

 

You claimed a 10 fps improvement in games that aren't BF4, that goes against every synthetic benchmark and every benchmark ever done. That is a false claim or a claim that was a result of user error, while you call people cavemen for not using Windows 8 (rude) and then report people who call you out. I don't have to report you. 1) I don't need to eliminate people that can show I am full of it from the forum 2)  I am not a child. 

 

You also refused to answer the question. Do you work for an advertising company,  or MS or do you have a personal reason like stock in MS, that would make posts you make biased and make you want to lie?

 

I have no vendetta against MS and MS is not the only company that astroturfs tech forums. I have a vendetta against astroturfers and people who lie. You have already been caught in one lie and the lie was to prop up a product, which you seem to be very interested in pushing.

 

If you claim it is not  a lie, then you are admitting you have no idea what you are doing as far as keeping an OS install clean. The benchmarks you claim are simply impossible. 

 

Now you two go back to being rude to people and calling them cavemen, lying and defending each other. 

[TheProfosist]

So let me get this straight. Goodbytes spends most of his time in MS threads defending the company and you do the same. He has resorted to claiming benchmarks that are impossible, reporting me to mods for calling him out on blatant false claims, for being "rude". You have both referred to people who don't like the OS (and they have given valid reasons in this and other threads) as cavemen, which is "rude".

 

You two do this because you are just super fans of Windows 8?

 

I have a question for both of you. 1) do you own stock in MS and stand to lose or gain money with the adoption of Windows 8 2)  Do you work or have you ever worked for Microsoft or a company doing advertising for Windows 8  3) are you a part of the MS evangelist program, which came to light in the Comes VS Microsoft trial.

 

If the answer to any of those is yes, then you are completely biased and are a salesmen on a tech forum. You simply shouldn't be in these threads or you should have a tag saying that you are a MS employee or salesmen. 

 

I have seen the exact same things in every tech forum from the same people. Bogus benchmarks and claims. Referring to people as cavemen. In fact that is exactly what was spelled out as a tactic on page 55 in the court documents.

 

http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03096.pdf

 

"Ideally use of competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency, as in "he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and OS/2. Just keep rubbing it in, via the PRESS, analysts, newsgroups, whatever".

 

Many people came to LTT to escape all the astroturfing. It is pretty sad when the same few people are always using the same old, tired tactics to sell products. So keep on reporting me, insulting people as not tech savvy. while claiming I am insulting you. All it is going to do is drive people from this forum, which I doubt this forum wants. If it was my forum? I would have a legal disclaimer saying if you work or advertise for a company it must be shown on the username/avatar, so that people would know they are getting a sales pitch.

 

IF you just really loved Windows 8? You would not be trying to sell it this hard to people that didn't like it and who have told you repeatedly why they don't like it and it goes far beyond a start bar. Anyone can look at the profile you two have and see that you both have an agenda.

 

I like Mac OS. Do you see me selling Hackintosh here 24/7? I could care less if people don't like Mac OS. I don't even really like Apple as a company. Do you see people here telling people to buy Win 7? No. I have in fact recommended they buy Win 8.1 if they are a gamer if they don't already have 7, simply because I know MS will not allow new DirectX revisions on Win 7. 

 

Anyways have fun selling people on this OS 24/7 and defending MS, and you expecting people to believe that you are doing it for no reason, other then you just really love Windows 8...

I would kind of like to know why your telling me all of this since I have not done that and your not even referring to me. Also I have not referred to anyone as a caveman to my knowledge but i may have said stuck in their ways or something to the effect. In some cases even I am stuck in my ways. It seems human nature to not want to change away from something your used to especially something like the start menu that we have been using for what ~20 years. To tell you the truth I had Win8 on day one and when Start8 came out I bought it and installed it. It was not until I was basically forced to use Win8 without it that I realized how it could work and even found some stuff, like jump lists, that were in Win7 that I never used. This was because I didnt know about them and had no need to because the start menu was still there so I just continued to use it. Many of these things actually made me quicker in navigating windows and actually having a better experience. Oh and jump lists is another thing that could be improved you should have to have something in the list in order to pin it.

I do this because because most people have the wrong idea about windows 8 because of people like you. Hearing this from others makes it much easier for them to spend little or no time on it, or even think about doing that before calling it bad and horrible.

Nope

Then the same should apply to you as your the direct opposite.

Which I have quoted, said, or used any of from what I remember. If I have let me know as what I say is usually based on my personal experiences, if not that from people who's knowledge I trust.

If anything compared to me I would have to say that you seem to be more likely involved with that as I havnt done anything that you have mentioned. You do also seem accuse me and others as being payed off frequently using the same wording every time. Even in this post you used the same nearly exact wording multiple times.

Once someone gives me a legitimate reason as to why they are choosing win7 over Win8 I do back off as truthfully I have my own reasoning to still have it running on a number of PCs. None of it however has anything to do with the Start Screen or Start Menu which I guess may surprise you.

Ok, so looking at my profile what is my agenda?

And I dont like OSX but can navigate it when needed and with a bit of searching around the net get to the things I need but it seems more locked down that I would want. Also there is the whole software support issue but if that was fixed youd probably see me on Linux pertaining the desktop experience improves a bit farther yet. Also I dont go around selling Win8 most of the threads I am in are ones where there is the option to go Win7 or Win8 or say has 7 and can go to 8 for free or dirt cheep.

I believe we have went over the DX stuff in another thread. Also there we showed that your basically anti windows as a whole if I recall.

Well I like having discussion, debate, and improving the community as a whole. A more knowledgeable community is a better community. If someone is choosing win7 over win8 they should have good reasoning for it, not the stuff your average person pouts out that they heard from their friend who probably heard it from another friend who probably heard it from a retail associate at Best Buy. If you go and look I post the same amount if not more about getting a 4820K over a 4770K. This is another topic that's controversial to some degree on the forum.

[mr.squishy]

We're sorry to interrupt your scheduled program, but we have breaking news! Another internet fight has broken out over a completely stupid argument that nobody cares about and has ALREADY BEEN ARGUED ABOUT! Now, back to your regularly scheduled paid programming.

No but seriously, we ALREADY BURIED this issue, why do you have to bring it back up? In my opinion, all this comes down to is personal preference. Why do you (deathjester and goodbytes) care so much? You are both on a TECH forum, not a stupid "complain and argue like a three year old" forum. Now, I think we should have a moderator lock this thread before more useless argument breaks out and ruins the OP's NEWS FORUM.

[GoodBytes]

You claimed a 10 fps improvement in games that aren't BF4, that goes against every synthetic benchmark and every benchmark ever done.

Last I check StarCraft 2 is not BF4, so yes... I guess that is what I claimed.. obviously...

I did mention that it was on old systems. And it goes in together with everyone claim that Windows 8 runs better and smoother, and in addition games runs a better or a bit better on older systems, which my claim, and my observation. I don't want to test anything, because even if I do, meaning wasting a full week-end, installing Windows 7 testing, switch to Windows 8 back, test again, in well defined test environment, you'll find excuses how its wrong, or call user error, like I don't know what I am doing.

So how about contacting your favorite site, and ask they pull out 4-5 year old hardware and test. So that you can see for yourself. I got better things to do.

That is a false claim or a claim that was a result of user error, while you call people cavemen for not using Windows 8 (rude) and then report people who call you out. I don't have to report you. 1) I don't need to eliminate people that can show I am full of it from the forum 2)  I am not a child.

 

I just did a Google search and search the forum search system. At no point I said you are cavemen.

You also refused to answer the question. Do you work for an advertising company,  or MS or do you have a personal reason like stock in MS, that would make posts you make biased and make you want to lie?

I have answered that question already. The answer was No I do not work for Microsoft, or any affiliated company. I get no money from Microsoft or any agent. I don't have any stocks in Microsoft or any tech companies for that mater. I invest in natural resources. Tech companies is too unpredictable, for me. Currently I don't have time to monitor the market daily to jump into action for tech companies, nor have any experience in investors psychology (Company reports that sold things very well, reached expectation, or new product is showed, which people and myself is very excited about, including blog sites... stock plummets), so not for me... at least not in my current situation.

 

I have no vendetta against MS and MS is not the only company that astroturfs tech forums. I have a vendetta against astroturfers and people who lie. You have already been caught in one lie and the lie was to prop up a product, which you seem to be very interested in pushing.

I have not lied. You assume I am lying, because you don't agree with me. But I have proven you wrong, with your OpenGL claim. That Microsoft specifically designed things to reduce OpenGL performance. When at the end of the day, was that it only affected OpenGL programs running in windowed mode (like a normal program, not game), with Aero enabled. The reason for this, is that the OpenGL calls where passing under some sort of emulation mode of sorts, because Aero graphical engine system of Windows was made in DirectX (of course, they'll use DirectX, why use something that you didn't create. That's like going to a restaurant and the employees refuse to eat the food there... well that's a signs to not go there.) you can't mix DirectX with OpenGL. Nor the reverse. Things HAVE improved in future revision of Aero engine in Windows 7 and probably in 8 as well. But games, in full screen, have 0 problem even with Vista.

The affected programs would things like 3D Studio Max in OpenGL mode. Not games. As for gaming performance under Vista. Due to the entire restructure of the driver system (as you know Vista was remade about 80%, give or take, from scratch, hence why it took 6 years to develop and catch up with the increasingly fast moving tech world), graphic drivers could not use XP drivers. They had to restart from scratch. XP is based on a 1993 OS... Windows NT 3. Things have not really changed since. So Nvidia and AMD were able to deeply optimize their drivers. Well now (well than with Vista), everything went out the window, and restart from scratch. Fun no? That is why both Nvidia and AMD drivers at release of Vista, were not great at all, and were link to many stability issues with the OS. AMD pretty much solved all that. Nvidia sadly faced with difficulties, as I am sure you recall reading on that. However, game performance was similar after much improved drivers.

If you claim it is not  a lie, then you are admitting you have no idea what you are doing as far as keeping an OS install clean. The benchmarks you claim are simply impossible.

Well what can I say. See, excuses. So I don't bother.

 

Now you two go back to being rude to people and calling them cavemen, lying and defending each other.

Hey hey hey! Don't project me what you are doing to me.

[deathjester]

I would kind of like to know why your telling me all of this since I have not done that and your not even referring to me. Also I have not referred to anyone as a caveman to my knowledge but i may have said stuck in their ways or something to the effect. In some cases even I am stuck in my ways. It seems human nature to not want to change away from something your used to especially something like the start menu that we have been using for what ~20 years. To tell you the truth I had Win8 on day one and when Start8 came out I bought it and installed it. It was not until I was basically forced to use Win8 without it that I realized how it could work and even found some stuff, like jump lists, that were in Win7 that I never used. This was because I didnt know about them and had no need to because the start menu was still there so I just continued to use it. Many of these things actually made me quicker in navigating windows and actually having a better experience. Oh and jump lists is another thing that could be improved you should have to have something in the list in order to pin it.

I do this because because most people have the wrong idea about windows 8 because of people like you. Hearing this from others makes it much easier for them to spend little or no time on it, or even think about doing that before calling it bad and horrible.

Nope

Then the same should apply to you as your the direct opposite.

Which I have quoted, said, or used any of from what I remember. If I have let me know as what I say is usually based on my personal experiences, if not that from people who's knowledge I trust.

If anything compared to me I would have to say that you seem to be more likely involved with that as I havnt done anything that you have mentioned. You do also seem accuse me and others as being payed off frequently using the same wording every time. Even in this post you used the same nearly exact wording multiple times.

Once someone gives me a legitimate reason as to why they are choosing win7 over Win8 I do back off as truthfully I have my own reasoning to still have it running on a number of PCs. None of it however has anything to do with the Start Screen or Start Menu which I guess may surprise you.

Ok, so looking at my profile what is my agenda?

And I dont like OSX but can navigate it when needed and with a bit of searching around the net get to the things I need but it seems more locked down that I would want. Also there is the whole software support issue but if that was fixed youd probably see me on Linux pertaining the desktop experience improves a bit farther yet. Also I dont go around selling Win8 most of the threads I am in are ones where there is the option to go Win7 or Win8 or say has 7 and can go to 8 for free or dirt cheep.

I believe we have went over the DX stuff in another thread. Also there we showed that your basically anti windows as a whole if I recall.

Well I like having discussion, debate, and improving the community as a whole. A more knowledgeable community is a better community. If someone is choosing win7 over win8 they should have good reasoning for it, not the stuff your average person pouts out that they heard from their friend who probably heard it from another friend who probably heard it from a retail associate at Best Buy. If you go and look I post the same amount if not more about getting a 4820K over a 4770K. This is another topic that's controversial to some degree on the forum.

 

You also did not answer my question. Do you work for MS, or an advertising company selling MS products, and do you own stocks in MS.

 

As far as "anti window"? No. Both Jobs and Gates got the Gui from Xerox PARC, so I could care less about being pro MS/Apple. They were both "pirates of silicon valley" as a movie so eloquently put it.  

 

I have never told one person on this forum to buy Windows 7 on a new build if they don't have an OS. I have said get 8. That said. People have zero reason to upgrade to win 8.1 unless they care about faster boot or BF4 as far as gaming. You are comparing preference. Some people simply don't like it for many reasons stated in this thread. Whether you agree with them or not? It is preference. People should not be LIED to, to convince them they need to go to windows 8. They should also not be harassed and have their opinion railroaded by the same people in every Win 8 thread and you are Goodbytes are always there doing it.

 

There is no 10 fps gains coming in windows 8 in games not BF4 (and I didn't even see that in BF4). In fact performance is slightly lower in all the synthetics.

 

I have a better question. Why should I purchase Windows 8 if I already own 7, which is all people are saying here? Full screen ap's are the dumbest thing I have ever seen on a desktop and even if I don't have to use them, why do I then want Win 8? My game performance is slightly lower in it (not much and it isn't big) and as a new OS it has had several compatibility issues with older games. I get the same performance in everything but BF4 (no longer play it). The metro thing is dumb as hell and takes longer to navigate then if I just put icons on my desktop, which makes it pointless. I can also make folders for icons on my desktop. Again full screen is simply stupid on anything but a touchscreen or a small screen.

 

The MS store. Couldn't give a damn about it, just like I couldn't care about the Apple store in Mac OS. Faster boot on a desktop. Don't care about a couple seconds, and I boot my computer once a day. 

 

This is what you fail to understand. The people aren't saying not to get Win 8.1, they are saying, why should I bother to upgrade. The only thing attractive is DirectX and it was withheld from 7 and only effects 1 game. If Windows is making the same 100 bucks on Win 7 sales then why can't they put the new DirectX .x on Windows 7?

 

When the only thing many people like is something that is withheld? That is silly. Especially when OpenGL can do the same thing and Mantle runs as well on 7 as Windows 8. I don't see anyone saying MANTLE FASTER IN WINDOWS 8!!! 

[beebskadoo]

This discussion was interesting but now that ad hominem attacks have began its starting to get a bit wearing...

[Phillyphries]

What about the people who bought it....

[GoodBytes]

No but seriously, we ALREADY BURIED this issue, why do you have to bring it back up? In my opinion, all this comes down to is personal preference. Why do you (deathjester and goodbytes) care so much? You are both on a TECH forum, not a stupid "complain and argue like a three year old" forum. Now, I think we should have a moderator lock this thread before more useless argument breaks out and ruins the OP's NEWS FORUM.

My problem is deathjester claims of late, which I think degrades the forum quality. Generally deathjester is better than this. I don't know what got over him recently. That is why I am talking the time, but I realize that this was a mistake, and eventually ended up in being part of reducing the quality of the forum as a whole, as I have fallen this.

So, and you are right, I must apologies to all for everything.

I am done with such discussion none sense. You are right, it is pointless.

[TheProfosist]

What about the people who bought it....

it likely not going to have all the functionality that Windows 8/8.1 Pro has or possibly even standard 8.

[deathjester]

Last I check StarCraft 2 is not BF4, so yes... I guess that is what I claimed.. obviously...

I did mention that it was on old systems. And it goes in together with everyone claim that Windows 8 runs better and smoother, and in addition games runs a better or a bit better on older systems, which my claim, and my observation. I don't want to test anything, because even if I do, meaning wasting a full week-end, installing Windows 7 testing, switch to Windows 8 back, test again, in well defined test environment, you'll find excuses how its wrong, or call user error, like I don't know what I am doing.

So how about contacting your favorite site, and ask they pull out 4-5 year old hardware and test. So that you can see for yourself. I got better things to do.

 

I just did a Google search and search the forum search system. At no point I said you are cavemen.

I have answered that question already. The answer was No I do not work for Microsoft, or any affiliated company. I get no money from Microsoft or any agent. I don't have any stocks in Microsoft or any tech companies for that mater. I invest in natural resources. Tech companies is too unpredictable, for me. Currently I don't have time to monitor the market daily to jump into action for tech companies, nor have any experience in investors psychology (Company reports that sold things very well, reached expectation, or new product is showed, which people and myself is very excited about, including blog sites... stock plummets), so not for me... at least not in my current situation.

 

I have not lied. You assume I am lying, because you don't agree with me. But I have proven you wrong, with your OpenGL claim. That Microsoft specifically designed things to reduce OpenGL performance. When at the end of the day, was that it only affected OpenGL programs running in windowed mode (like a normal program, not game), with Aero enabled. The reason for this, is that the OpenGL calls where passing under some sort of emulation mode of sorts, because Aero graphical engine system of Windows was made in DirectX (of course, they'll use DirectX, why use something that you didn't create. That's like going to a restaurant and the employees refuse to eat the food there... well that's a signs to not go there.) you can't mix DirectX with OpenGL. Nor the reverse. Things HAVE improved in future revision of Aero engine in Windows 7 and probably in 8 as well. But games, in full screen, have 0 problem even with Vista.

The affected programs would things like 3D Studio Max in OpenGL mode. Not games. As for gaming performance under Vista. Due to the entire restructure of the driver system (as you know Vista was remade about 80%, give or take, from scratch, hence why it took 6 years to develop and catch up with the increasingly fast moving tech world), graphic drivers could not use XP drivers. They had to restart from scratch. XP is based on a 1993 OS... Windows NT 3. Things have not really changed since. So Nvidia and AMD were able to deeply optimize their drivers. Well now (well than with Vista), everything went out the window, and restart from scratch. Fun no? That is why both Nvidia and AMD drivers at release of Vista, were not great at all, and were link to many stability issues with the OS. AMD pretty much solved all that. Nvidia sadly faced with difficulties, as I am sure you recall reading on that. However, game performance was similar after much improved drivers.

Well what can I say. See, excuses. So I don't bother.

 

Hey hey hey! Don't project me what you are doing to me.

 

everyone claim that Windows 8 runs better and smoother

 

No. they have said that about BF4, not any other game

 

 I don't want to test anything

 

So these claimed 10 fps gains were "felt"? Awesome.

 

 I got better things to do.

 

Like selling Windows 8 with mystical benchmarks that have no basis in reality?

 

pull out 4-5 year old hardware and test

 

So these gains only happen on old hardware. Seems legit. Optimization for older technology only. Awesome.

 

At no point I said you are cavemen.

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/121782-microsoft-experimenting-with-free-version-of-windows-81/page-4#entry1627577

[deathjester]

My problem is deathjester claims of late, which I think degrades the forum quality. Generally deathjester is better than this. I don't know what got over him recently. That is why I am talking the time, but I realize that this was a mistake, and eventually ended up in being part of reducing the quality of the forum as a whole, as I have fallen this.

So, and you are right, I must apologies to all for everything.

I am done with such discussion none sense. You are right, it is pointless.

 

Actually I spend most of my time in the tech part of the forum helping people with hardware.

 

You and Goodbytes spend time in the OS forum and selling MS products. Lately you have stooped to mythical benchmarks...

 

Do you see me in the OS forum saying WINDOWS 8 SUCKS DON'T BUY IT. Nope. Told everyone who doesn't own 7 to buy 8 for DirectX.  I am telling you that people aren't buying it because it does nothing for them. Then they are attacked with dumb pictures of cavemen. 

 

I fail to understand why it is impossible to grasp that the things added in 8 mean nothing to many of the people here, minus DirectX. 

 

If Windows 8 offered a lot? It wouldn't need a defense force on internet forums. It if was a fantastic product that offered a big upgrade from 8? People would have upgraded.

[EricX2]

Windows 3.1 was good enough for me, that stupid start button in Windows 95 makes no sense. How stupid do they think we are? Start to shut down?

Windows 95 was so good, why did they have to integrate Internet Explorer into the whole OS with Windows 98, it's just stupid.

Windows 98 was perfect, Why would anybody use Windows ME (wait, good point).

Windows 98 was awesome, direct X 6 was amazing, Windows XP looks like it was made by Fisher Price for kids!

Windows XP was so fast and supported any piece of software and hardware you want, Windows Vista is slow and nothing works! (Sort of a valid point)

Windows 7 should have been a service pack for Vista not a separate OS.

Windows 8 should be for tablets only, it makes no sense on a desktop.

Windows 8.1 is just Windows 8 so I'm using the same arguments as before!

 

It's getting old!

[NInety]

And I'm just sitting here.... running Linux....

[beebskadoo]

The thing that would make windows 8 more palatable for me is proper touchpad gesture support. My laptops touchpad is just crippled by it. I have not seen any laptop that does it right.

Add proper gesture support for navigating the OS and then you have a product that I would enjoy.

One thing that OSX does right Is gesture support

[deathjester]

Windows 3.1 was good enough for me, that stupid start button in Windows 95 makes no sense. How stupid do they think we are? Start to shut down?

Windows 95 was so good, why did they have to integrate Internet Explorer into the whole OS with Windows 98, it's just stupid.

Windows 98 was perfect, Why would anybody use Windows ME (wait, good point).

Windows 98 was awesome, direct X 6 was amazing, Windows XP looks like it was made by Fisher Price for kids!

Windows XP was so fast and supported any piece of software and hardware you want, Windows Vista is slow and nothing works! (Sort of a valid point)

Windows 7 should have been a service pack for Vista not a separate OS.

Windows 8 should be for tablets only, it makes no sense on a desktop.

Windows 8.1 is just Windows 8 so I'm using the same arguments as before!

 

It's getting old!

 

Again you are not understanding what is being said by people in this thread. They tell people to buy 8 if they don't have 7.

 

Let me make this really easy for you.

 

Johnny has like 350 dollars. Johnny already has Windows 7. Johnny can buy a GTX 770 and keep using Windows 7 or he can buy Windows 8 and a GTX 760.

 

The only game Johnny will get a performance increase with Windows 8 will be Battlefield 4 and it will be less then if he used Windows 7 and the GTX 770.

 

Why should Johnny buy Windows 8 instead of superior hardware. This is a choice people make every day and when people are selling fictitious gains? That is why I am not a fan of them. Add to this API's are up in the air right now. 

 

A 100 dollars is a 100 dollars. It is the difference between a mediocre and a great gaming CPU, or rendering performance or a mediocre and a GOOD GPU.

 

When false information is given to people that would make them consider software (hoping for big gains that don't exist) over hardware? That isn't good to see on a tech forum and that is why it made me so appalled by it. I am here to help people, not see them get suckered into false advertising.

 

Get it now? I tell people to buy Windows 8.1 all the time. If they have 7 and can reuse the key? Not so much.

[GoodBytes]

Actually I spend most of my time in the tech part of the forum helping people with hardware.

Doesn't look like. I see you more, but that is just my observation. I have better things to do than monitor you. I am not a mod.

To bash DirectX, say how OpenGL is awesome, and how WIndows 8 should die

 

You and Goodbytes spend time in the OS forum and selling MS products. Lately you have stooped to mythical benchmarks...

Please read my posts. I think you missed one.

 

Do you see me in the OS forum saying WINDOWS 8 SUCKS DON'T BUY IT. Nope.

Pretty much that is what you are doing.

Told everyone who doesn't own 7 to buy 8 for DirectX.  I am telling you that people aren't buying it because it does nothing for them. Then they are attacked with dumb pictures of cavemen. 

I fail to understand why it is impossible to grasp that the things added in 8 mean nothing to many of the people here, minus DirectX.

No. It does nothing to YOU. And you think that your opinion, is everyone else opinion too.

If someone asks which Windows he should go for a new system, meaning that he or she has no previous version of windows, (usually the question about where to get Win7 is asked as well), in such case I present Windows 8. Why? Because I, like many here, but not all, like Windows 8. and Enjoy using it. That is MY OPINION. Now, you have others with other suggestions. Some says: get Windows 8, but get a Start Menu replacement. I am fine with that. At no point I reply to that, I even marked as liked on many of them, as they explain their view well. Others says: If you have Win7, just use Win7. Here is what is new in Win8, it's up to you to see if it's worth it. But you have to pick a new Windows, get Win8. It's newer, so why not. The price is about the same (varies between region, of course, so doesn't apply everywhere for that last statement)

If Windows 8 offered a lot? It wouldn't need a defense force on internet forums. It if was a fantastic product that offered a big upgrade from 8? People would have upgraded.

 I think that Win8 does offer a lot, and I present those.

 

At no point I said you are cavemen.

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/121782-microsoft-experimenting-with-free-version-of-windows-81/page-4#entry1627577

Nope. Look at the guy holding the well, he is cavemen too. So there is no insults.

You are not understanding the comic strip.

It shows that they are some people that aren't willing to try something new. They are stuck in what they are used to, and not giving new things a chance.

This strip represents something I have noticed with many people tech savvy or not, including my parents (well NOW they learned, but before... yea)

[Phillyphries]

I tend to laugh at people who come up with these ridiculous "bugs" or "errors" or problems in general in Windows 8/8.1, when I do the same thing, and everything works perfectly fine?

 

Do people really just come up with crap to say about something even when they don't use it or?

 

Why is that so

[beebskadoo]

Nope. Look at the guy holding the well, he is cavemen too. So there is no insults.

You are not understanding the comic strip.

It shows that they are some people that aren't willing to try something new. They are stuck in what they are used to, and not giving new things a chance.

This strip represents something I have noticed with many people tech savvy or not, including my parents (well NOW they learned, but before... yea)

the comic implies that windows 8 (the wheel) is superior to windows 7 (dragging it on the ground)

It's really an unfair comparison, it makes it look like windows 8 has every advantage over 7 so much so that using 7 is a bad experience etc and switching to 8 will solve your problems.

This is clearly not the case for a lot of users.

[deathjester]

I tend to laugh at people who come up with these ridiculous "bugs" or "errors" or problems in general in Windows 8/8.1, when I do the same thing, and everything works perfectly fine?

 

Do people really just come up with crap to say about something even when they don't use it or?

 

Why is that so

 

Those people are prob referring to fresh 8 or fresh 8.1. 

 

All new OS's (and so did 7) have driver/compatibility problems. They are fixed pretty quickly. It isn't that they are lying, you just didn't run into the problem with the hardware you have, or you didn't adopt it as early. Those people might have tried it once, and said forget it. 

[Phillyphries]

Those people are prob referring to fresh 8 or fresh 8.1. 

 

All new OS's (and so did 7) have driver/compatibility problems. They are fixed pretty quickly. It isn't that they are lying, you just didn't run into the problem with the hardware you have, or you didn't adopt it as early. Those people might have tried it once, and said forget it. 

No no, I bought the OS the week it came out, so I definitely am an early adopter.