NHD15

[Coopermar]

Background

The computer is for gaming. I have been using my 9900k with a 212 evo since Christmas. It works well, but I didn't really try overclocking with it because everyone told me it wasn't good enough. It ran at 4.7 or 4.8 during boost and never throttled. I saw the NH-D15 chromax black on amazon for $100, it's been out of stock a bunch. I decided to buy it because I had a $100 gift card for Amazon. I just got it in the mail and installed it. 

Results

Since I'm scared of breaking my 9900k, although I know I probably wont, I used Intel XTU. I put it to 5ghz and temp it settled at was 60-70C. So, I made it 5.1 and it crashed. I guess I could try to undervolt to try and get higher temps.

Question

I am considering returning the NHD15 and just putting back in my Hyper 212 EVO. From what I've gathered, even if I get up to 5.1 or 5.2ghz, it's only going to be a 10% gain in fps. Although the money was a gift card, I could use the $100 to get a new chair or something like that. Do you think the 10% increase in fps for $100 is worth it? Am I wrong in thinking 4.7-5.2 = 10% increase? Thanks

 

[Jurrunio]

10 minutes ago, Coopermar said:

Am I wrong in thinking 4.7-5.2 = 10% increase?

Are you CPU bottlenecked that badly?

[Coopermar]

1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

Are you CPU bottlenecked that badly?

Not at all, actually. I still have a 1060 but I'm planning to get one of the new ampere cards for Christmas, something like a 3070-3080. I want to futureproof my cpu as much as I can, part of the reason I wanted to overclock the 9900k.

[Alex Atkin UK]

Depends, what temp were you hitting on 212 EVO?  You have to consider that the lower your temps, the longer the CPU will last.

You also have to consider that if those are gaming temps not stress testing temps, then while it might not run so hot right now, in a year or two if games are hitting the CPU harder you might then start thermal throttling.

As my intake air is a little lacking (case problem) my 9900K hits 60-70C in gaming but can spike to 100C under a stress test (eg Folding at Home) and its only at stock settings on an NH-D15S with two fans.

[Coopermar]

3 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Depends, what temp were you hitting on 212 EVO?  You have to consider that the lower your temps, the longer the CPU will last.

You also have to consider that if those are gaming temps not stress testing temps, then while it might not run so hot right now, in a year or two if games are hitting the CPU harder you might then start thermal throttling.

As my intake air is a little lacking (case problem) my 9900K hits 60-70C in gaming but can spike to 100C under a stress test (eg Folding at Home) and its only at stock settings on an NH-D15S with two fans.

It surprised me how well the 212 did actually, under gaming it was 70ish. I just ran the ETU stress test that does 100% on all core, 5ghz with the D15 and it didn't go above 80 on any core.

[SpookyCitrus]

I'm a 9900k user, I would never run mine with a 212 Evo. I have mine overclocked to 5.0ghz and don't have any problems. I haven't tried to go higher as I don't see a need too. I would keep the NH-D15 as it will keep the CPU cooler than the Evo helping it last longer, we don't really use "futureproof" in this community as there isn't really such a thing. If your CPU will not overclock above 5.1ghz you probably just got unlucky in the silicon lottery. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 minute ago, Coopermar said:

It surprised me how well the 212 did actually, under gaming it was 70ish. I just ran the ETU stress test that does 100% on all core, 5ghz with the D15 and it didn't go above 80 on any core.

I'm so jealous, but to be expected as I only have an ITX case and I don't think my motherboard VRMs are very efficient either so adding some heat.

Personally, I aim for around 80C which requires dropping to 4.5Ghz boost when Folding and I still see spikes into the 90s sometimes.

Did you compare stock to stock temps on both coolers?

[Jurrunio]

21 minutes ago, Coopermar said:

Not at all, actually. I still have a 1060 but I'm planning to get one of the new ampere cards for Christmas, something like a 3070-3080. I want to futureproof my cpu as much as I can, part of the reason I wanted to overclock the 9900k.

Then you will gain zero gaming performance. You can get the cooler, but not for performance benefits

[Coopermar]

10 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I'm so jealous, but to be expected as I only have an ITX case and I don't think my motherboard VRMs are very efficient either so adding some heat.

Personally, I aim for around 80C which requires dropping to 4.5Ghz boost when Folding and I still see spikes into the 90s sometimes.

Did you compare stock to stock temps on both coolers?

From what I can remember, 4.7 boost would give 60-70 MAX with the evo. On 5, with the NHD15, I'm getting like 80 MAX. I haven't tried messing with voltages, would that help me get higher than 5?

 

10 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

Then you will gain zero gaming performance. You can get the cooler, but not for performance benefits

Yea I know it won't right now. But if I get a new card for Christmas then I could become cpu bottlenecked again, right?

 

10 hours ago, SpookyCitrus said:

I'm a 9900k user, I would never run mine with a 212 Evo. I have mine overclocked to 5.0ghz and don't have any problems. I haven't tried to go higher as I don't see a need too. I would keep the NH-D15 as it will keep the CPU cooler than the Evo helping it last longer, we don't really use "futureproof" in this community as there isn't really such a thing. If your CPU will not overclock above 5.1ghz you probably just got unlucky in the silicon lottery. 

I haven't messed with the voltages at all. I suspect I could get higher if I change the voltages. I expect I'll have to upgrade again in 5-7 years, do you think the 9900k would die with the evo before that?

[Jurrunio]

12 minutes ago, Coopermar said:

Yea I know it won't right now. But if I get a new card for Christmas then I could become cpu bottlenecked again, right?

Not necessarily, it depends on the game.

 

No one guaranteed 5.2 either so even if so, gains can still be smaller

[Alex Atkin UK]

4 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Not necessarily, it depends on the game.

 

No one guaranteed 5.2 either so even if so, gains can still be smaller

Let's not forget, its not all about the frame rate, its often about the frame time consistency.

 

Faster CPU = less stutters, although you also want your RAM to be at least 3200Mhz too.

We can't really predict if CPU bottlenecking is going to be a problem with the next GPUs or games, so its better to be safe than sorry IMO.

[Jurrunio]

8 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Let's not forget, its not all about the frame rate, its often about the frame time consistency.

 

Faster CPU = less stutters, although you also want your RAM to be at least 3200Mhz too.

We can't really predict if CPU bottlenecking is going to be a problem with the next GPUs or games, so its better to be safe than sorry IMO.

From my experience (as CPU limited as my system already is), more CPU clock doesnt help with frame rate stability, it just improves it overall. Improving memory speed, uncore and a CPU with more cores are what improves frame rate stability but how much depends on the game

[Coopermar]

16 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

From my experience (as CPU limited as my system already is), more CPU clock doesnt help with frame rate stability, it just improves it overall. Improving memory speed, uncore and a CPU with more cores are what improves frame rate stability but how much depends on the game

Alright so what would you do if you were in my situtation?

My PC:

9900k

1060 6gb

Z390 Aorus Pro Wifi

500gb 970 evo plus

275R Airflow Case

750Rmx Power Supply

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

From my experience (as CPU limited as my system already is), more CPU clock doesnt help with frame rate stability, it just improves it overall. Improving memory speed, uncore and a CPU with more cores are what improves frame rate stability but how much depends on the game

It still doesn't hurt to keep your CPU as cool as possible though, plus going forward we can't really predict how future game engines will perform in different scenarios - better to cover all angles.

[freeagent]

Sounds like you want to overclock just for the sake of overclocking. I suggest you read some guides. High performance usually comes at a price, and that price is usually silence.

 

A 212 is also not better than a D15, trust me, I really hate Hyper 212s, and not a fan of Noctua.. har.

 

I also have a hard time believing your 9900K is bottlenecking your 1060.

[Jurrunio]

2 hours ago, Coopermar said:

Alright so what would you do if you were in my situtation?

My PC:

9900k

1060 6gb

Z390 Aorus Pro Wifi

500gb 970 evo plus

275R Airflow Case

750Rmx Power Supply

 

think about all this after getting the GPU upgrade imo

 

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

It still doesn't hurt to keep your CPU as cool as possible though, plus going forward we can't really predict how future game engines will perform in different scenarios - better to cover all angles.

It wont be an issue with 1060 6GB that I'm certain. If low temperature is desirable @Coopermar should consider dropping clocks, voltages if not disable 2 cores as well. People pair 1060 6GB with 4 core 4 thread i5s back then without much issue. 9900k has double that.

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

think about all this after getting the GPU upgrade imo

 

It wont be an issue with 1060 6GB that I'm certain. If low temperature is desirable @Coopermar should consider dropping clocks, voltages if not disable 2 cores as well. People pair 1060 6GB with 4 core 4 thread i5s back then without much issue. 9900k has double that.

Were not talking about a 1060 though, they specifically referred to being somewhat future proof and as we can't really make any promises there then the only option is to aim for maxing everything out as much as possible.

[Jurrunio]

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Were not talking about a 1060 though, they specifically referred to being somewhat future proof and as we can't really make any promises there then the only option is to aim for maxing everything out as much as possible.

I never said I'm against buying a better cooler, all I've said is the overclock on CPU is pointless for improving gaming performance before upgrading this GPU.

[LogicalDrm]

10 hours ago, Coopermar said:

From what I can remember, 4.7 boost would give 60-70 MAX with the evo. On 5, with the NHD15, I'm getting like 80 MAX. I haven't tried messing with voltages, would that help me get higher than 5?

First of all, please read about overclocking or watch some guide video. Even something for older Intel CPU. Your approach sounds like you have heard this word and want to try it without even knowing what it means. Pretty much saying, don't try drugs without learning what they do first.

 

Voltages are the key thing here. Raising clocks by themselves doesn't raise temps. If you keep voltages auto, they will go up as CPU is trying to keep clockspeed running. So in order to know what 212 is handling and what D15 is handling, we really need to know what the voltages are.

 

Another thing is stress testing. You just putting more multiplier and doing nothing doesn't mean its stable. You need to run stress tests, both to see what voltages actually are and to see if you can run anything with those clocks. Aida64, OCCT, even Prime95. 15-30 mins while you are tweaking settings, 3-24h when you are done with tweaking.