Things just got complicated

[OnionRings]

So I was having some crashes in my games and I thought I narrowed it down to ram... I have 2x8GB of LPX veng at 3600 with XMP on, I took 1 stick out and tested the first one, it passed and my games stopped crashing... however I ran memtest86 overnight on stick 2 and it also passed, so why the frick was 2 sticks making me crash? Bad dimm slot in motherboard? Is that even a thing?

[schwellmo92]

Maybe remove the RAM OC and see if it's stable. You might just need to up the RAM voltage or run at a slightly slower speed.

[OnionRings]

Just now, schwellmo92 said:

Maybe remove the RAM OC and see if it's stable. You might just need to up the RAM voltage or run at a slightly slower speed.

Wait that's a thing? Nobody ever told me that my ram might not run at its rated spec out of the box.

[nick name]

It could just be a voltage issue with the XMP profile.  My kit doesn't run XMP at 1.35V without errors.  Not all boards will set the secondary timings the same so more voltage might be needed if your board is setting things a little lower than what the kit was validated at.  

 

Also, check the manual and verify you've installed the RAM sticks into the correct RAM slots.  

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, OnionRings said:

Wait that's a thing? Nobody ever told me that my ram might not run at its rated spec out of the box.

That ram will do it. Thats not the issue.

 

The processor supports up to 3200mt/s. Anything beyond that is overclock on the memory controller.

 

Increase memory voltage to 1.40v manually and Soc to 1.1v 

Be sure trfc timing is nice and loose.

[OnionRings]

20 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

That ram will do it. Thats not the issue.

 

The processor supports up to 3200mt/s. Anything beyond that is overclock on the memory controller.

 

Increase memory voltage to 1.40v manually and Soc to 1.1v 

Be sure trfc timing is nice and loose.

Wait so why would 1 stick be fine but not 2? 

[schwellmo92]

3 minutes ago, OnionRings said:

Wait so why would 1 stick be fine but not 2? 

The less sticks the easier you can overclock. 1 stick is always more stable than 2. Try up your RAM and SOC voltage a little like the other guy said and see if that helps.

[OnionRings]

8 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

The less sticks the easier you can overclock. 1 stick is always more stable than 2. Try up your RAM and SOC voltage a little like the other guy said and see if that helps.

Will try in a bit.

[OnionRings]

1 hour ago, ShrimpBrime said:

That ram will do it. Thats not the issue.

 

The processor supports up to 3200mt/s. Anything beyond that is overclock on the memory controller.

 

Increase memory voltage to 1.40v manually and Soc to 1.1v 

Be sure trfc timing is nice and loose.

What is SOC? And TRFC? Im pretty new to this stuff.

[OnionRings]

All I could find on TRFC was this. Its at whatever 350.000 ns is

[Guest]

The Cpu/NB SOC is already automatically compensated to 1.1v for you because of the XMP being enabled. So that you can leave as it is then.

 

The Trfc timing is a sub timing not a main timing.

 

Also if you can find the setting "powerdown mode", disable that too if you can. This will prevent the memory from going into a power saving state which you don't want while overclocking.

[OnionRings]

6 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

The Cpu/NB SOC is already automatically compensated to 1.1v for you because of the XMP being enabled. So that you can leave as it is then.

 

The Trfc timing is a sub timing not a main timing.

 

Also if you can find the setting "powerdown mode", disable that too if you can. This will prevent the memory from going into a power saving state which you don't want while overclocking.

Ok. just to note I tried 1.4v and I couldn't get into windows. Login screen came up but after that it restarted my PC. About to game on 2133 speed RQ to see if your theory of my OC being bad is even where I should be looking.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, OnionRings said:

Ok. just to note I tried 1.4v and I couldn't get into windows. Login screen came up but after that it restarted my PC. About to game on 2133 speed RQ to see if your theory of my OC being bad is even where I should be looking.

I've started the same overclock many times on many cpus from many platforms. That's what I call trial and error. 

 

Sometimes you can have an OC so stable and a month later it may give a single issue. Those are the kind of OCs that drive me nuts. lol

[OnionRings]

1 hour ago, ShrimpBrime said:

I've started the same overclock many times on many cpus from many platforms. That's what I call trial and error. 

 

Sometimes you can have an OC so stable and a month later it may give a single issue. Those are the kind of OCs that drive me nuts. lol

So what should I do then? I mean I wanna run my ram at 3600 if I can, as thats why I bought a 3600 kit. But if 1.4v wasn't stable, what do I do? All this stuff is starting to irritate me. Makes me wish I hadn't upgraded to ryzen

[schwellmo92]

3 hours ago, OnionRings said:

So what should I do then? I mean I wanna run my ram at 3600 if I can, as thats why I bought a 3600 kit. But if 1.4v wasn't stable, what do I do? All this stuff is starting to irritate me. Makes me wish I hadn't upgraded to ryzen

Determine if it is that first by just playing with RAM at default settings. Then if you are dead set on running at your 3600 XMP try DRAM voltage 1.45v and SoC at 1.15v and that spread spectrum is enabled.

[OnionRings]

10 hours ago, schwellmo92 said:

Determine if it is that first by just playing with RAM at default settings. Then if you are dead set on running at your 3600 XMP try DRAM voltage 1.45v and SoC at 1.15v and that spread spectrum is enabled.

And 1.45v is safe? I mean I would assume you wouldn't recommend it if it wasn't, but I have to ask lol.

[Guest]

Need a lot of information. Provide more please.

Run Typhoon Burner so we can see the memory specs.

 

I found it rather interesting to see 13.5 Cas Latenecy in your screen shot above. 

 

Need to see CPU-Z screen shots of memory tab at whatever frequency you CAN boot and run windows at.

Then a screen shot of Cpu-z SPD tab as well. Typhoon Burner will tell us SPD and what the IC make is. Is it Hynix? 

 

Trfc is a timing we need to pay attention to. AMD systems tend to respond better with this timing a little bit looser.

We can also Try 1T and 2T command rates. Generally 2T can be better for stability, but 1T would obviously get a tad better performance. Not a lot to measure between the two timings though.

 

 

thphn160 (1).zip

[OnionRings]

1 minute ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Need a lot of information. Provide more please.

Run Typhoon Burner so we can see the memory specs.

 

I found it rather interesting to see 13.5 Cas Latenecy in your screen shot above. 

 

Need to see CPU-Z screen shots of memory tab at whatever frequency you CAN boot and run windows at.

Then a screen shot of Cpu-z SPD tab as well. Typhoon Burner will tell us SPD and what the IC make is. Is it Hynix? 

 

Trfc is a timing we need to pay attention to. AMD systems tend to respond better with this timing a little bit looser.

We can also Try 1T and 2T command rates. Generally 2T can be better for stability, but 1T would obviously get a tad better performance. Not a lot to measure between the two timings though.

 

 

I can try I just don't know alot of the abbreviations and stuff. I have no idea what TRFC is other than what I showed in my SS. here is my CPU-Z, windows boots at 3600 fine, I just have game crashes after 5-15 minutes. https://prnt.sc/sa8nhg its clocked at 2133 in the screenshot right now because of the game crashes, I was waiting to try all of the advice given until I have it all together.

[Guest]

The screen shot above was with stock 2133 frequency.

 

Can you do the screen shot of the timings after the 3600mhz is up and running then?

 

We must include the sub timings, we'll have you make a few adjustments and see if we can get the stability you need.

 

See the thing is, XMP rated profiles where tested on Intel, then sold to your AMD system. However, AMD like some of the timings to be slightly looser than Intel's and helps with stability. This sole issue is why many configurations on AMD platforms won't even post at DOCP enabled. DOCP and XMP are the same thing, runs memory at rated specs.

 

If you have questions about abbreviation, by all means ask please. I'd rather educate you and send you on your merry way. You'll begin tweaking on your own and then eventually helping others! So questions, do ask.

[OnionRings]

15 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

The screen shot above was with stock 2133 frequency.

 

Can you do the screen shot of the timings after the 3600mhz is up and running then?

 

We must include the sub timings, we'll have you make a few adjustments and see if we can get the stability you need.

 

See the thing is, XMP rated profiles where tested on Intel, then sold to your AMD system. However, AMD like some of the timings to be slightly looser than Intel's and helps with stability. This sole issue is why many configurations on AMD platforms won't even post at DOCP enabled. DOCP and XMP are the same thing, runs memory at rated specs.

 

If you have questions about abbreviation, by all means ask please. I'd rather educate you and send you on your merry way. You'll begin tweaking on your own and then eventually helping others! So questions, do ask.

Well whenver you use an abbreviation just include the full phrase if you can, that way I'll learn what it is. I'll go ahead and get you the screenshot with it at 3600, I didn't realize the timings changed when the clock changes, guess it makes sense though. Appreciate the XMP explanation, that makes sense as to why my ram rated for 3600 isn't quite working out of the box with AMD.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, OnionRings said:

Well whenver you use an abbreviation just include the full phrase if you can, that way I'll learn what it is. I'll go ahead and get you the screenshot with it at 3600, I didn't realize the timings changed when the clock changes, guess it makes sense though. Appreciate the XMP explanation, that makes sense as to why my ram rated for 3600 isn't quite working out of the box with AMD.

Yessir, I'll do my best to explain them. 

The timings do change when you enable DOCP. So does the Memory voltage.

 

But there are some things you will need to change for stability for sure. No doubt in my mind. May take some trial and error, but that is what overclocking is all about. And you are overclocking beyond the memory controller's native support speed by the way. So IMC is integrated memory controller. 

[OnionRings]

1 minute ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Yessir, I'll do my best to explain them. 

The timings do change when you enable DOCP. So does the Memory voltage.

 

But there are some things you will need to change for stability for sure. No doubt in my mind. May take some trial and error, but that is what overclocking is all about. And you are overclocking beyond the memory controller's native support speed by the way. So IMC is integrated memory controller. 

So what do you mean by native support? If my ram is rated for 3600, and I want to run it at that, would that not be its native support? Or is native support like what the motherboard can handle or the CPU?

[Guest]

Just now, OnionRings said:

So what do you mean by native support? If my ram is rated for 3600, and I want to run it at that, would that not be its native support? Or is native support like what the motherboard can handle or the CPU?

A Ryzen 5 3600 supports up to 3200mhz natively. Beyond this frequency, is an overclock. 

2133 is the stock cpu, board and memory speed. This is a Jedec profile from the memory. When you see XMP in Cpu-z SPD tab to the far right, that's the memory's rated tested speed. This does not mean the cpu memory controller will just post it and run it straight up. 3200mt/s however should be of no issue for you imo.

[OnionRings]

4 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

A Ryzen 5 3600 supports up to 3200mhz natively. Beyond this frequency, is an overclock. 

2133 is the stock cpu, board and memory speed. This is a Jedec profile from the memory. When you see XMP in Cpu-z SPD tab to the far right, that's the memory's rated tested speed. This does not mean the cpu memory controller will just post it and run it straight up. 3200mt/s however should be of no issue for you imo.

Oh I see. Well what is the difference between 3200 and 3600, like 5%? I mean if it will run out of the box at 3200, I could settle for that. I *might* still mess with the OC though because its free performance.

 

Edit: Lemme go get those 3600 sreenshots.

[Guest]

Just now, OnionRings said:

Oh I see. Well what is the difference between 3200 and 3600, like 5%? I mean if it will run out of the box at 3200, I could settle for that. I *might* still mess with the OC though because its free performance.

Well it's 200mhz difference. Probably cut latency by 5-10ns running 3600 vs 3200, but noticeable in certain tasks more so than others. Gaming, you may see a 2fps average difference maybe. That would be within a margin of error.

 

If you where chasing benchmarking numbers, that's where you may see the performance gains the most.

 

But anything is better than 2133mhz in the end lol..... XD