open back headphones Headphones for gaming advice? comparisons? Help?

[Falenkor]

So as the title suggests I am trying to honestly find the best bang for my buck gaming headphone setup. Been through a whole slew of headphones and headsets labelled "gamer" and it's honestly hard to decide with there just being so many. I wanted to ask others opinions on this. I haven't been able to try them but I have heard that Sennheiser 58x Jubilee, AKG K7xx, some audio technica, and some beyer were good for gaming but I honestly have no clue to tell the truth on which would be the best to go with here. I currently use a Hyperx Cloud, the original none of its sequel designs. I have tried Hyperx's lineup, cloud, revolver s, orbit s great sound just expensive and not very comfortable imo, and alpha s, of which I honestly didn't find all that great. I also tried Sennheiser Game One which was stunningly close to hyperx cloud but just all around better I liked this headset but I felt it could be better which caused me to make this forum post asking about this. The other two I tried were the astro a40s and the steel series arctis pro with its GameDac. Out of all the headsets I have tried I personally liked the sound and comfort from the sennheiser the most with steel series in a good second place. Anyone happen to have any of these headphones or a good setup that could offer some advice on this? Would it be better just to stick to the "gamer" headset lineup or would going to a headphone lineup just be better. FPS competitive and RPG deep immersion are something I am taking into account here so it makes choosing a little more difficult. If it helps someone provide some advice and comparison personally the comfort of the earcup design that the game ones and hyperx cloud both use is what I heavily prefer as I have never been a fan of super deep or circular ear cup.

[merco]

Well I tried to read into it and also find it a bit confusing. There seem to be conflicting opinions on the old headset vs headphones debate, but from what I understand stereosound is still the best option for fps since you can pinpoint footsteps much better that way. At least for csgo as an example that seems to be true since the game does not have 7.1 audio that most gaming headsets promote. However I read that fortnite implemented it so I guess 7.1 headsets work in that game? 

I have no first hand experience and I also don't play fortnite, just thought it was worth noting. 

[Falenkor]

yeah, thats another reason I am looking for some advice on this.. its really confusing and there's a ton of information in this area. Just trying to find the best I can ya know? However, I have heard a lot about the 7.1 surround sound being terrible for gaming as its "virtual" and to be honest I will agree to this statement since when I tested the Hyperx revolver s and alpha s they both had that as selling points and it sounds and performs terribly. 

[merco]

atm I'm still using relatively cheap headphones the Koss Porta Pro which were like 30 bucks, and a creative 2.1 speaker system that is I don't even know how old at this point. I think I bought it when € wasn't a thing yet, or around the time they made the currency, so I guess like 20 years or something. I think right now the audio is the worst thing about my setup. While it is somewhat acceptable I think it could be so much better with good headphones at least. 

I think one reason to go for a headset instead would be if you go wireless, because they have low latency if you want to play fps. 

[Falenkor]

well, wireless have naturally worse sound than a wired headphone setup so I would prefer to stay wired.

[merco]

If I look at this an open headphone seems best  

 

[Falenkor]

Generally speaking both are fine from my knowledge, open back provides better sound and lets you hear your surroundings so if someone rings your phone, dog whining to go outside, someones talking to you, doorbell rings, etc youll hear it just fine, but if your someone who likes more isolation in their sound or has a lot of background noise such as a loud family, trains, dogs, etc closed back is more preferred. Closed back is more immersion and privacy while open is practically the opposite just really great sound

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, Falenkor said:

So as the title suggests I am trying to honestly find the best bang for my buck gaming headphone setup. Been through a whole slew of headphones and headsets labelled "gamer" and it's honestly hard to decide with there just being so many. I wanted to ask others opinions on this. I haven't been able to try them but I have heard that Sennheiser 58x Jubilee, AKG K7xx, some audio technica, and some beyer were good for gaming but I honestly have no clue to tell the truth on which would be the best to go with here. I currently use a Hyperx Cloud, the original none of its sequel designs. I have tried Hyperx's lineup, cloud, revolver s, orbit s great sound just expensive and not very comfortable imo, and alpha s, of which I honestly didn't find all that great. I also tried Sennheiser Game One which was stunningly close to hyperx cloud but just all around better I liked this headset but I felt it could be better which caused me to make this forum post asking about this. The other two I tried were the astro a40s and the steel series arctis pro with its GameDac. Out of all the headsets I have tried I personally liked the sound and comfort from the sennheiser the most with steel series in a good second place. Anyone happen to have any of these headphones or a good setup that could offer some advice on this? Would it be better just to stick to the "gamer" headset lineup or would going to a headphone lineup just be better. FPS competitive and RPG deep immersion are something I am taking into account here so it makes choosing a little more difficult. If it helps someone provide some advice and comparison personally the comfort of the earcup design that the game ones and hyperx cloud both use is what I heavily prefer as I have never been a fan of super deep or circular ear cup.

I'm very partial to the 990 as they are my personal favorites in my collection for gaming. But the 58x is a close second

 And is basically my 

Reccomendation if you only have like $200 and need something for gaming. And since you personally used them and liked them the best why not go with that. Its pretty excellent for gaming

[Falenkor]

18 minutes ago, rice guru said:

I'm very partial to the 990 as they are my personal favorites in my collection for gaming. But the 58x is a close second

 And is basically my 

Reccomendation if you only have like $200 and need something for gaming. And since you personally used them and liked them the best why not go with that. Its pretty excellent for gaming

well to correct an error or miscommunication I was not able to test the 58x it was one of the ones I was looking into as a possible purchase. I just wasn't sure due to things such as sound stage, sound quality, price, lows meds and highs. As some headphones are just really horrible for gaming but fantastic for music. I was considering the 990s in my list as well. My only issue is again I have never tested them but also I wasnt sure about the comparisons or ear cup design as far as comfort goes as I have always used a more faux leather memory foam style cushion for ear pads but also anytime I have tried circular ear pads they either have a heavy clamp or are just uncomfortable for me. If I remember right on reviews for the 990s they are more V shaped sound with a stronger treble and bass response while the 58x is more of a flat sound but I have also heard recommendations for Audio Technica's AD900x. lol bit of a confliction here theres to many dang headphones

[rice guru]

So the 58x sounds intimate compared to most opendbacks but plenty wide compared to any competing closed back, the 58x is very wide.  and sound wise it sounds great and is among the best at this price range imaging is very accurate and excellent. It initially feels too clampy but does get better after a week of use. It's great for both music and gaming the 6xx is another story not as good for gaming but also Excellent for music. The 990 is my favorite and put above the 58x due to it's wider soundstage and  more bass and treble lends it well to my favorite fps right now rainbow six siege as it uses bassy footsteps for upstairs footsteps and a treble for specific sound cues like glass breaking. But is deceptively expensive as to me requires a DAC/amp compared to the 58x where a clean sounding motherboard is basically all you need as they are very efficient headphones

[merco]

22 minutes ago, rice guru said:

990

by that you mean the beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO (250 Ohm)? it is affordable here at around 100-120€ and seems to be comfortable and good sound for gaming, from what I've read about it.

 

 

[Falenkor]

10 minutes ago, merco said:

by that you mean the beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO (250 Ohm)? it is affordable here at around 100-120€ and seems to be comfortable and good sound for gaming, from what I've read about it.

 

 

yea its the beyer 990s pro but they also have premium. Yeah that is true, 990s can be 250 ohm or higher so an Dac/amp would need to be considered. I have heard really great things about the 990s but also theres alot of people who just dont like it due to the treble it provides and similar complaints about the ad900x and k7xx for bass response. It sounds like the 990s have the strongest sound but 58x has the best middle ground. Curious if anyone else with experience on this can chime in. Wondering if I can find a place that has these 990s around so I can test them out since 58x is a massdrop item it makes them harder to test run.

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, merco said:

by that you mean the beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO (250 Ohm)? it is affordable here at around 100-120€ and seems to be comfortable and good sound for gaming, from what I've read about it.

 

 

yes, the 250 ohm and 600 ohm are really the ones that are worth it but it needs a  nice amp to drive them. 

[an actual squirrel]

@merco @Falenkor

I'll just chime in on the stereo vs virtual 7.1 part. Normal stereo only has two directions, left and right. With 7.1 audio, you have front, side, and back pairs of channels, along with a center channel. So those 7 directions are a pretty big step up from 2 directions. So that's the first concept to understand - that 7.1 has more data than regular stereo audio.

 

The other concept is how spatial hearing works. Human beings only have two ears, but they can perceive more than 2 directions. This seems like it shouldn't be possible, but it happens because of things like how the sound physically interacts with people's head and ears, and differences between how one ear hears something compared to the other; these attributes end up encoding the direction the sound comes from, which the brain will decode to get the direction. So you don't need sounds actually physically coming from those directions, as long as you have the encoding.

 

Now put the two concepts together, and you have the basis for virtual 7.1 headphones. You start with the 7.1 audio which contains more information than stereo. That information can't normally exist on headphones, but once you add in the encoding, then it suddenly can.

 

For the practical benefits of this, look at this video that compares stereo to virtual surround in pubg. It was made using the in game hrtf option, but it works pretty much the same way. Note what I said earlier about how stereo only has left and right, and look at the types of problems demonstrated in the video.

 

[Falenkor]

Personally speaking I would rather just have an actual surround sound experience instead of virtual surround sound, less I have just had some really awful virtual 7.1 headsets.. I am all for directional audio but from my experience it causes some strange distancing and even some more underwater based sounds.  I went ahead and ordered the dt 990 pros and the 58x jubilee both. I figure I may as well try both but since I can't return the jubilee I can always just make it into a gift for someone.

[Falenkor]

@an actual squirrel would you say buying a Dac/amp with a 7.1 surround setting would be worth while then? 

[rice guru]

30 minutes ago, Falenkor said:

Personally speaking I would rather just have an actual surround sound experience instead of virtual surround sound, less I have just had some really awful virtual 7.1 headsets.. I am all for directional audio but from my experience it causes some strange distancing and even some more underwater based sounds.  I went ahead and ordered the dt 990 pros and the 58x jubilee both. I figure I may as well try both but since I can't return the jubilee I can always just make it into a gift for someone.

Just contact massdrop if you want to return it they are usually pretty ok with it. I know a few people that have managed to do so. 

[Falenkor]

1 hour ago, rice guru said:

Just contact massdrop if you want to return it they are usually pretty ok with it. I know a few people that have managed to do so. 

worth a shot i suppose. looking into supporting amps at this point trying to wager whether its worth getting a 7.1 amp

[an actual squirrel]

@Falenkor

So yea, actually having multiple pairs of speakers in a room with good acoustics will trump virtual surround sound headphones. This is because the headphone processing is making assumptions about how the sounds would interact with your body and room, while the speakers, since they actually are physically in the locations they are supposed to be, are actually interacting with your body and room. (while with regular stereo on headphones, there aren't any of this type of interactions at all so there is less information)

 

In terms of dac+amps for gaming, I think the sennheiser gsx 1000 looks pretty good. If you are willing to put up with some tinkering, there is free software called hesuvi that can emulate the 7.1 headphone function of the gsx.

[Falenkor]

7 hours ago, an actual squirrel said:

@Falenkor

So yea, actually having multiple pairs of speakers in a room with good acoustics will trump virtual surround sound headphones. This is because the headphone processing is making assumptions about how the sounds would interact with your body and room, while the speakers, since they actually are physically in the locations they are supposed to be, are actually interacting with your body and room. (while with regular stereo on headphones, there aren't any of this type of interactions at all so there is less information)

 

In terms of dac+amps for gaming, I think the sennheiser gsx 1000 looks pretty good. If you are willing to put up with some tinkering, there is free software called hesuvi that can emulate the 7.1 headphone function of the gsx.

edit: I will make a seperate thread for my other questions since this is more for a headphones post.

[rice guru]

7 hours ago, an actual squirrel said:

@Falenkor

So yea, actually having multiple pairs of speakers in a room with good acoustics will trump virtual surround sound headphones. This is because the headphone processing is making assumptions about how the sounds would interact with your body and room, while the speakers, since they actually are physically in the locations they are supposed to be, are actually interacting with your body and room. (while with regular stereo on headphones, there aren't any of this type of interactions at all so there is less information)

 

In terms of dac+amps for gaming, I think the sennheiser gsx 1000 looks pretty good. If you are willing to put up with some tinkering, there is free software called hesuvi that can emulate the 7.1 headphone function of the gsx.

The unfortunate thing with the gsx 1000 is the amp is rather underpowered sounds great though. It should be fine for the 58x but higher impedance beyers or any power hungry cans and planars will probably require more power so if you wish and like the 990. And is not loud enough you can still hook up an amp to it as well 

 

[Falenkor]

Wanted to chime back in on this one and ask my question instead of a direct message. @an actual squirrel @rice guru So, the more research I do the one I am leaning towards the beyerdynamic as a brand. While I don't have the 58x jubille yet, I tested other headphones and it just doesn't sound as good and needless to say the dt 990s 250 ohm is PHENOMENAL in a gaming environment.. its not as explosive of a headphone though so more intensive single player games wont have a good result and I guess I would need a seperate set of cans for that.. needless to say I really like these things. However, Personally speaking my opinion they seem rather docile.. I was wondering the differences between the 250 and the 600 ohm as when I looked it up people have reported that it sounds different. I got to thinking perhaps that will fix the more docile tones I am experiencing and I also was recommended the LIQUID SPARK amp by guru but I was unsure if it could properly power the 600 ohm variation. At the same time I started wondering about the upgrade to the 990s, the 1990s and how it fits into all this. It's definitely a hell of a lot more expensive but I had wondered down the line perhaps on a sale if it was a worthwhile upgrade by a large margin considering the price tag is massively different. In the same price point is the aeon open x which is a strong v signature open back and the only one of its kind too however, what I have learned from testing so many headphones is that I tend to gravitate towards the "bright" sounding headphones. The 400i from hifiman was nice.. however I felt it was incredibly aggressive sounding and it was a bit much for me while the 990s 250 ohm while sounds beautiful in certain areas it seems rather weak and to docile in  few areas for my taste but its minor. So I wanted to chime back in asking for alternative advice, while I don't own the liquid spark I don't think that will completely solve the issue. Any advice on it is appreciated and I am so glad thanks to this I am on the right track so I also wanted to say thanks so far! pretty sure guru just responded to my direct message and if so if your reading this sorry bout a repost thought it would maybe help to also ask squirrel too!

[rice guru]

So I. Terms of explosiveness what are we looking for do we need more from explosions? Where do you think it's lacking?  The 1990s are a much more revealing more unforgiving headphone. It's better than the 990s in the respect of neutrality as it's a more neutral more detailed headphone also better built I wouldn't call it a direct upgrade to the 990 as to me lacks one major characteristic pretty much unique to the 990 which is that midbass hump in the sound signature rather it's a direct upgrade to the 880. Which is a more neutral headphone imagine the 990 with less bass and less treble and you got a 880 basically. The 58x is a more narrow sounding headphone but imaging is great its mids are lush treble isn't super prunounced and is rather laid back with punchy bass. The spark should be able to power the 600 ohms pretty well and to me is the best pairing. But if you want to preserve the treble of the 990 while adding warmth to the low end and mids the magni 3+ is the way to go.

[Falenkor]

5 minutes ago, rice guru said:

So I. Terms of explosiveness what are we looking for do we need more from explosions? Where do you think it's lacking?  The 1990s are a much more revealing more unforgiving headphone. It's better than the 990s in the respect of neutrality as it's a more neutral more detailed headphone also better built I wouldn't call it a direct upgrade to the 990 as to me lacks one major characteristic pretty much unique to the 990 which is that midbass hump in the sound signature rather it's a direct upgrade to the 880. Which is a more neutral headphone imagine the 990 with less bass and less treble and you got a 880 basically. The 58x is a more narrow sounding headphone but imaging is great its mids are lush treble isn't super prunounced and is rather laid back with punchy bass. The spark should be able to power the 600 ohms pretty well and to me is the best pairing. But if you want to preserve the treble of the 990 while adding warmth to the low end and mids the magni 3+ is the way to go.

It's honestly hard to explain as I am not good with the proper terminology yet. To me the recessed mids seem like it's just too much being recessed it needs adjusted not by much but a little to bring it into a better light and needs I guess it would be that it needs a little more body to it. the lows are a bit on the loose end and need to be a little sharper. Bass is definitely heavy but not deep by any means. Personally I like more aggression from my headphones but the 400i was definitely an extreme I would use the 400i if i was listening to heavy metal or playing a VERY intensive explosive game kind of like the witcher 3 or something as it just has that kind of sound you want to immerse you. However when your playing in shooters to much aggression like that and heavy emphases on explosions and the like hinders your gameplay especially in the competitive scene which is why I really like the beyerdynamic line so far. I have all three headphones my hyperx cloud, the 400i, and the 990s and I always just pick up the 990s cause i love the sound but I feel it needs a bit more to it to be the ideal sound to me.

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, Falenkor said:

It's honestly hard to explain as I am not good with the proper terminology yet. To me the recessed mids seem like it's just too much being recessed it needs adjusted not by much but a little to bring it into a better light and needs I guess it would be that it needs a little more body to it. the lows are a bit on the loose end and need to be a little sharper. Bass is definitely heavy but not deep by any means. Personally I like more aggression from my headphones but the 400i was definitely an extreme I would use the 400i if i was listening to heavy metal or playing a VERY intensive explosive game kind of like the witcher 3 or something as it just has that kind of sound you want to immerse you. However when your playing in shooters to much aggression like that and heavy emphases on explosions and the like hinders your gameplay especially in the competitive scene which is why I really like the beyerdynamic line so far. I have all three headphones my hyperx cloud, the 400i, and the 990s and I always just pick up the 990s cause i love the sound but I feel it needs a bit more to it to be the ideal sound to me.

the proiblem with the 990's are they are a very unique headphone and I cant really think of anything that would be an imporovement aside form upping the impedance. the 600 ohm 990 will have your desired tighter bass. the treble region should be calmed down a bit. and the mids may improve with a warmer amp like the magni 3+ or liquid spark. also the amp should also bring a little more control to the mass region of the 990.