Microphone and Interface

[Minithril]

How's it goin' all. I've decided to buy an XLR mic as an improvement to my home setup, but I'm stuck on what kind of setup I should be going for here. There's a bit of either non-clear or contradictory advice around it, but I'm hung up:

For the actual microphone:

1. AT2035 - $149.

2. Rode Procaster - $228

Specifically the first major contradiction I've found is whether to get a dynamic or condenser mic. To me, I've heard sound clips that make one or the other sound better; so, personally, it's probably that I'm not really sure what I'm actually listening for.

For the interface:

1. Steinburg UR22C - $189.

2. Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 - $199.

And the Second, being that I'm not really sure if there's a good sweet spot when it comes to a ratio of how much I'm supposed to spend in relation to interface:microphone. I've heard having a good interface is  technically more important than the mic, but I haven't any hard facts of how that is supposed to be. I know more money=/=better, so the fact that I've never dabbled in this sort of thing isn't helping any.

[The Flying Sloth]

The AT 2020 and 2035 certainly aren't bad microphones if you don't have much background noise (there's a reason they're the low budget go-to), if you do have background noise you may want to use a dynamic microphone. Just remember that Condenser microphones are extremely sensitive (will pick up a tonne of background noise) and Dynamic microphones will often require an inline preamp to get any decent volume out of them (like the Klark Teknic CT1) and using a dynamic mic without one can make it sound very lifeless, just something to keep in mind.

here are a plethora of microphone options available with many microphones rivalling or outright beating the 2020/35 in a very similar price range (Brands like MXL, 3U, ADK and CAD among others) so just take your time finding the microphone that will sound the best in your voice. If you can't try them yourself the Podcastage YouTube channel can be a very useful point of reference.

There is no price ratio for mic vs interface, in truth interface choice will make very little difference to the sound provided you get one with all the hardware (inputs and outputs) you need. Personally I very often recommend Behringer interfaces (Like the UMC202) simply because the price to performance ratio is crazy good and my personal experience with my UMC1820 has been brilliant, on par or better than just about every other interface I've tried (and I've tried a lot).

If you are really stuck and want some direct suggestions on what models to buy feel free to quote me and I'll do the best I can to infer what your voice sounds like, see, that's why giving advice on mics is very hard, different mics respond very differently to differing voices hence why studios have options available whenever they are recording.

In the end there are a few basic factors we will need to know to help suggest a mic,
1, Is the room acoustically treated (IE is there a tonne of reverb)?
2, Is there likely to be a lot of background noise?
3, How would you describe your vocal tone (Nasally, bass heavy, shrill or whatever else you might describe it as)

Sloth

[Minithril]

5 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

-snip-

Yea, I'm not in a sound treated room at all, so I'm going to have the assumption that I have noticeable dead noise. Just a fan that runs constantly;but, nothing like construction or planes. Thanks for the tip, I'll check that channel out. Those two mics I just pulled from popular opinion.

 

If that's the case for interfaces, then I think I'll pick up the UR22C. I'm only going to be using one mic so I don't see the need for more than 2 inputs.

 

Attached a voice clip of me talking if that helps. 

untitled.wav

[kasugatei]

7 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Dynamic microphones will often require an inline preamp to get any decent volume out of them (like the Klark Teknic CT1) and using a dynamic mic without one can make it sound very lifeless, just something to keep in mind.

nope, not true at all. 
Only handful of microphones like SM7 or RE20 might require something like that on interfaces with mediocre preamps, but 99% of dynamic microphones will not have any issues. 
Some makers like Audient use good preamps even in their cheapest interfaces which have no issues with any microphones. Their preamp design for instance is shared in all of their products - from cheap USB interfaces to multi channel consoles. 
 

 

[Bowis]

15 hours ago, Minithril said:

How's it goin' all. I've decided to buy an XLR mic as an improvement to my home setup, but I'm stuck on what kind of setup I should be going for here. There's a bit of either non-clear or contradictory advice around it, but I'm hung up:

For the actual microphone:

1. AT2035 - $149.

2. Rode Procaster - $228

Specifically the first major contradiction I've found is whether to get a dynamic or condenser mic. To me, I've heard sound clips that make one or the other sound better; so, personally, it's probably that I'm not really sure what I'm actually listening for.

For the interface:

1. Steinburg UR22C - $189.

2. Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 - $199.

And the Second, being that I'm not really sure if there's a good sweet spot when it comes to a ratio of how much I'm supposed to spend in relation to interface:microphone. I've heard having a good interface is  technically more important than the mic, but I haven't any hard facts of how that is supposed to be. I know more money=/=better, so the fact that I've never dabbled in this sort of thing isn't helping any.

Hey there!

Been looking for a dedicated mic myself, haven't pull the trigger on one, there's a question of budget and availability in my market (European).
My mic budget is 150€ ish (a bit more/less), but I will go with USB for the convenience.
For me it must be the most plug-and-play experience, I do have curiosity on this topic, the problem is that sound can get really expensive really fast and for that I already have my GPU.

So was this the answer?! No good sir, I can't really help you, but maybe Podcastage can, check him out he has TONS of content, for different types of budget.

I guess my problem is that the audio recorded from the experts always sound good, even with a 20$ mic, of course I can notice the difference but still, very confusing topic for me too. Check him out, I haven't found a more in-depth YouTube regarding mics.
When tou find your answer please let me know!

Hope it helps!  

[The Flying Sloth]

7 hours ago, Niksa said:

nope, not true at all. 
Only handful of microphones like SM7 or RE20 might require something like that on interfaces with mediocre preamps, but 99% of dynamic microphones will not have any issues. 
Some makers like Audient use good preamps even in their cheapest interfaces which have no issues with any microphones. Their preamp design for instance is shared in all of their products - from cheap USB interfaces to multi channel consoles. 
 

 

Frankly I disagree with you out of experience alone, when using a dynamic mic on low-SPL sources like softly spoken words or attempting to capture all nuance of the human voice it is quite possible for the mediocre preamps apparent in pretty much every interface anywhere near this price point to simply not have enough gain. In reality, the $15 purchase of an inline preamp is quite unlikely to negatively impact the experience of someone using a dynamic microphone and the alternative is deciding to not use one and perhaps choosing a microphone that will benefit from one (which to my ear is pretty much all of them). And yes, sure, some interfaces may have great gain but value proposition is what matters to my recommendation, a UM2 and a CT1 is far better value for someone to use on discord than anything audient.

 

Honestly, it's up to the end user but I've had much more usable recording sessions with since using inline preamps on budget audio interfaces when using a wide array of dynamic microphones and I will happily make recommendations based on those experiences. Before buying inline pres I would only use dynamic mics on drums because ribbons sounded better on amps and wind instruments, SDCs were better for spot percussion and my vocal mics (tube and otherwise) blew them out of the water for vocal, since grabbing the pres I've rediscovered my love for the 57 on female vocal.

 

Sloth

[Minithril]

1 hour ago, The Flying Sloth said:

-snip-

If that's the case, then what other than a CT1 would you recommend? I cannot find it sold anywhere that is available to me, sadly.

 

Would it be advantageous to get some kind of dedicated pre-amp, or an in-line pre-amp?

[The Flying Sloth]

1 minute ago, Minithril said:

If that's the case, then what other than a CT1 would you recommend? I cannot find it sold anywhere that is available to me, sadly. 

Apologies, none of that was highly relevant for you, it was just me disagreeing with the other dude. 
If you don't mind, what country are you located in? If the US the CT1 should be in B&H among others and globally I usually buy Music Group hardware from Thomann.
The CT1 really is only required when using a dynamic or ribbon mic.

Now, after listening to your voice it sounds very similar to one I have previously recorded with a Teal CM1 from 3U Audio, though, if you're worried about background noise the SM57 (or the better clone, MB75 by Tbone) is industry standard and is very unlikely to let you down. Honestly, the mic section on Thomann has voice samples from almost all their mics so it can be a good place to get an idea of the tone you should expect from each and Podcastage may aid with that (he has tonnes of reviews on cheap dynamic mics). I usually suggest going to a music store and trying out mics but with corona going around that's not really an option and I'd probably end up making the usual generic recommendations of condenser mics like the MXL V67G, Rode NT1 (not A), 3U Audio CM1, Oktava 219 (or319) or just about anything except the Vienna from ADK (it would be too bright on you).

Sloth

[Minithril]

4 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

-snip-

The US. It's more of an availability issue, however. Even on B&H's website it's back-ordered. Every digital retailer seems sold out right now. Bummer, but it happens. I appreciate the help all the same. 

 

[kasugatei]

3 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

snip

First of all, your answer to the original question  was too generic. Generally speaking you don’t need inline preamp for dynamic microphones period. 
By modern standards even “crap” 50USD mixer preamps are great compared what was available 30ish years ago in affordable equipment. More or less all modern budget interfaces have better preamps than previously mentioned equipment. Some modern interfaces will have better designed preamps than other and that can translate to the preamp gain as well.
 

My motto is “buy nice or buy twice” and when doing recommendation I will use this philosophy as well. 

 

[Bowis]

So can we get some mic and amps recommendations?
I suggest the following format (if possible):

USB Mics:

• Under 100$ (3 examples)
• Between 100$ and 200$ (3 examples)

XLR Mics:

• Under 100$ (3 examples)
• Between 100$ and 200$ (3 examples)

Amp:

• Between 100$ and 200$ (3 examples)

 

(Mind the prices are based on Minithril picks, since he was the original post of this thread).

I think 3 examples of each is a good start, from where we can explore a bit more if we want to.
Obviously different people will recommend different products, the goal is to have a base line from where we can start.

This aims to solve his/her problem as well as mine and possibly future ones too.

Hope it helps!
 

[The Flying Sloth]

On 4/20/2020 at 6:45 PM, Bowis said:

-snip-

Honestly, I would love to be able to respond with a template but there are so many factors at play that the response given here would likely be completely useless to the next person if not already useless to the first. If you really want a templated response I'll do my best though.

Okay so here goes nothing, keep in mind that these mics/interfaces are being recommended based on value for money alone along with my experience as a music producer and performer (stage, studio and otherwise), there are likely many other options that have been left off this list that would be as good if not better that I either have no experience with or personally dislike.

USB Mics:

• I know nothing about these and would strongly recommend not purchasing one unless you really dislike the idea of upgrading in future and like overpaying for mediocre audio. They often break in weird and wonderful ways that just aren't seen in a good XLR microphone due to the added complexity of ADC conversion among other things in USB mics.

XLR Mics:

• Under 100$ (3 examples)
  -MXL V67G (condenser, will pick up background noise, considered a mainstream value for money champion with it earning a spot in many pro studios )
  -Tbone MB75 (Dynamic, strongly suggest inline preamp, clone of the industry standard Shure SM57 and is just as good)
  -Behringer C2 (condenser but very directional, supercardioid, so can miss more keyboard noise and whatnot, this is what I personally use for discord calls)
   
• Between 100$ and 200$ (3 examples)
  -3U Audio CM1 (Condenser, will pick up background noise but beautiful mic for the money, there's a reason for the 6000 replies on this thread)
  -Used ADK Hamburg/Vienna/A6 (Condenser will pick up background noise, have personally used the MK8 Vienna on many vocal applications and given infinite money would buy all the mics from this manufacter or 3U very happily)
  -ElectroVoice RE320 (Dynamic, would strongly recommend inline preamp, can be modified to be like its older brother the RE20)
   
• Bonus Microphones
  -3U Audio Warbler series (Condenser, will pick up background noise, Would be great value mics at double the money, considered a 'neumann killer')
  -Shure SM7B (Dynamic, would recommend inline preamp, industry standard but personally have trouble fitting it in a mix)
  -ElectroVoice RE20 (Dynamic, would recommend inline preamp, the other industry standard large diaphragm dynamic)
  -Groove Tubes GT67 (Tube Condenser, hands down best mic I've ever heard used on Discord, use it for all my vocals, considered by some the best mic ever made though that's quite possibly a slight exaggeration)
  
  There are few (if any) bad microphones between ADK, Advanced Audio and 3U Audio, it is very difficult to go wrong with a mic from these 3 manufacturers.

Interfaces

• Between 00$ and 100$ (4 examples)
  -Behringer UM2 (just about the cheapest usable XLR input out there, used by Linus himself)
  -Behringer UMC202 (just about the cheapest usable audio interface out there with discrete headphone controls)
  -Swissonic UA-2x2 (Prettiest Behringer UMC202 clone)
  And Finally
  -NI Komplete Audio 1 (Biggest volume knob under $100 and yes, this is the only reason it made the list)
   
• Between 100$ and 300$
  -Behringer UMC1820 (Cheapest 8 preamp interface, just also happens to be my current interface, has ADAT which is neat)
  -RME Digiface USB (LIGHTPIPES BABYYYYYYYY, I'm in the middle of convincing myself to upgrade to this one, allows for 32 simultaneous inputs over ADAT, combined with the ADA8200 it's the lowest cost per channel interface available)
  -Any of the Focusrite Scarlett stuff (Never been my favourite but I've had to use them in the past and they're not bad, they certainly don't look bad, just not as good value as the Behringer kit)
  
  BEST INLINE PREAMPS (highly recommended for dynamic microphones)
  -Triton Audio Fethead (does the thing and does it good)
  -Klark Teknik CT1 (does the thing almost as good but for less money)
  -Cloudlifter (does the thing less good than the Fethead for more money)
  
  Hope that was generic enough to help future someone
• Sloth
  
  [Footnote], did a little research, while Audient preamp designs are the same, components (and thereby sound quality) are not, the converters share design elements but are at completely different levels between their cheaper offerings and more expensive as discussed in great length on other forums. Yes, you're absolutely right that some interfaces have enough gain for some dynamic mics, at the price range we were talking they likely do not and even if they did an inline preamp can only improve detail (and at $13 US this really isn't an argument worth having). Silly arguments like this are the reason the SM7B is either loved or hated, the tone can be very lousy if there isn't enough gain and an inline preamp fixes this.
  
  Hope that was enough detail for you

 

[Bowis]

8 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

 

 - snip -

Ok, first of all WOW! 
That's definitely food for days you got right there, a couple of things first.

I know XLR is the way to go, unfortunately if I go down that road I will need an interface (or what I call an amp)., doesn't really matter because it would mean more money to be spent. And if some mics need an inline pre-amp, well more money there too.
As I've said before, getting expensive pretty fast, even with sub-100$ components.

That's why I filtered out the XLR mics, but for anyone who intends to keep upgrading, or that makes money with the audio setup (podcasts, streaming, voice actor and so on), yes an XLR no doubt!

For me, I will stick with USB, it's practical, quick, mostly plug-and-play (with some requiring adicional software) and work directly with any USB certified devices (no amps, dacs, pre-amps or other components that to me mean 0.. I didn't even know what was a pre-amp).

So to conclude, THANK YOU SLOTH, really!! I won't buy any of those but I already have some tabs open to do my research on them.
Meanwhile I've checked some reviews and I hit a wall of decision:

 

• Blue Yeti Nano vs Rode NT-USB Mini  -> both around 120€ where I live.

-> Samson Q2U, AT2020USB+, Rode NT-USB, Blue Yeti X were all mentioned, but I can't really tell the difference!
That's why I'll probably go with one of the smaller ones, and I'll get a boom arm to, I'm too tall for the ridiculous stand they come with (more money there). And for my use case, I think it will be ok, maybe not good, but compared to what? A 400$ audio setup just for the mic/interface?
 I can't afford it...

Thank you very much Sloth once again!

[The Flying Sloth]

2 hours ago, Bowis said:

-snip-

The Q2U is a dynamic mic with both USB and XLR if I recall correctly, that means that it should ignore most background noise and when you eventually want to upgrade to an interface you should be able to. It's pretty much the only USB mic I don't hate purely for that reason. USB mics also tend to break in weird and wonderful ways as seen in countless posts in this section.

 

I understand your point about price, but consider that you can get a Behringer UM2 for about 30 Euro, and then have your pick of just about any studio Style mic, from the cheapest 5 dollar eBay special to the most expensive AKG C12 (not that I would suggest using such a mic with a budget system). In the end it comes down to choice, with an XLR system you have a lot of it.

 

Also, keep in mind that a lot of great mics were left off my list, I had to limit what I could include so things like the NT1-A vs NT1 debate were cut for time as were the advice for navigating the seemingly infinite number of different AKG 414 models. At some point I'll go through and explain what really makes each mic on that list deserving of a spot.

 

Sloth

[Minithril]

On 4/20/2020 at 4:45 AM, Bowis said:

-snip

"(Mind the prices are based on Minithril picks, since he was the original post of this thread)."

-snip
 

Except they're really not. The only thing I posted that was under $150 was the 2035. Which I only added, because it was one of the first condenser mics that was generally recommended. It would've been more appropriate to price it more towards the $200-$250 USD range. I appreciate the formatting, though it makes a lot of sense. I already decided to go with the Procaster and the UR22C. Which, I was kind of jumping the gun a little, honestly. Almost as soon as I got the notification that it shipped, I found out about the CAD e100s. Ah well, I'm just dipping my toe in at the moment.

[The Flying Sloth]

2 minutes ago, Minithril said:

Except they're really not. The only thing I posted that was under $150 was the 2035. Which I only added, because it was one of the first condenser mics that was generally recommended. It would've been more appropriate to price it more towards the $200-$250 USD range. I appreciate the formatting, though it makes a lot of sense. I already decided to go with the Procaster and the UR22C. Which, I was kind of jumping the gun a little, honestly. Almost as soon as I got the notification that it shipped, I found out about the CAD e100s. Ah well, I'm just dipping my toe in at the moment.

One minute you're just dipping your toe and the next thing you know you're drowning, be very careful
Hope you enjoy your choices, let us know how it goes.

Sloth