pay $30 extra for 3600 CL18 or buy 3200 CL16 (Ryzen 3rd gen CPU)

[zua93117]

Hey all,

 

I'm building a new pc that I plan on using  for simple animation and graphics art - so Clip studio pro, blender, w/e open source alternative to After Effects there is, maybe verve painter 

 

Currently, I have chosen the following components:

• Mobo - B450 Tomahawk Max (new)
• CPU - Ryzen 5 3600X (new)
• GPU - Rx 570? It's not the best but I'm on a budget, and my current one is GTX 660
• PSU - EVGA G3 850W  (grabbing from previous build)
• Some SSDs (already have)

I know 3600 CL16 or 3400 CL14 would be way better but that's out of my budget..

32GB Ram would be nice to have..but I think I'll stick with 16GB to stay in budget

 

I have a choice of getting Corsair Vengence LPX 16GB for ~$115 vs G.Skill RipJaws V 16GB for ~$85 (all currencies in CAD)

 

Albeit looser timings on 3600 CL16, the 3600mhz ram seems to be better than 3400 CL14, and I've read that Ryzen likes higher ram speeds.

But I'm not sure whether this improvement is worth the extra $30...

 

* note I've never OC'ed nor tighten ram timings to this day, but I think I'll try tightening ram timings this time, since it seems to help quite a bit.

 

Thank you all in advance!

 

*update*

Just discovered that Corsair Vengence LPX doesn't have a QVL. I never knew about QVL until today, and I read that Ryzen can be picky about rams, so I'll go with RipJaws V which coincidentally has a QVL that includes the Tomahawk Max. The next option for 3600 Cl18 ram would be G.skill Trident Z at ~$125..that's really making me doubt the cost to performance ratio..so I'll go for the cheaper 3200 Cl16 as suggested.

 

Thanks!

Edited November 29, 2019 by zua93117
updated post for clarification

[boggy77]

6 minutes ago, zua93117 said:

Hey all,

 

I'm building a new pc that I plan on using  for simple animation and graphics art - so Clip studio pro, blender, w/e open source alternative to After Effects there is, maybe verve painter 

 

Currently, I have chosen the following components:

• Mobo - B450 Tomahawk Max
• CPU - Ryzen 5 3600X
• GPU - Rx 570? It's not the best but I'm on a budget, and my current one is GTX 660
• PSU - EVGA G3 850W  
• Some SSDs

I know 3600 CL16 or 3400 CL14 would be way better but that's out of my budget..

32GB Ram would be nice to have..but I think I'll stick with 16GB to stay in budget

 

I have a choice of getting Corsair Vengence LPX 16GB for ~$115 vs G.Skill RipJaws V 16GB for ~$85 (all currencies in CAD)

 

Albeit looser timings on 3600 CL16, the 3600mhz ram seems to be better than 3400 CL14, and I've read that Ryzen likes higher ram speeds.

But I'm not sure whether this improvement is worth the extra $30...

 

* note I've never OC'ed nor tighten ram timings to this day, but I think I'll try tightening ram timings this time, since it seems to help quite a bit.

 

Thank you all in advance!

won't make a big difference, might as well go for the cheap one. also, get a different psu, that one has some problems. a 550w corsair txm should be better.

[Bombastinator]

You don’t need that much PSU.  It won’t actually hurt anything to have it though.  There may or may not be money to be saved there.

[zua93117]

Thank you! I'll go for the cheaper ram option then.

 

Ah..that PSU is from my previous build...

but yikes! it was B+ in the previous PSU tier list. Didn't know about the potential dangers.

[mariushm]

You can go with cheaper boards:

 

100$ MSI B450-A Pro : https://pcpartpicker.com/product/pBWfrH/msi-b450-a-pro-atx-am4-motherboard-b450-a-pro

100$ MSI B450 Gaming Plus MAX : https://pcpartpicker.com/product/BHBhP6/msi-b450-gaming-plus-max-atx-am4-motherboard-b450-gaming-plus-max

 

This one also works great with 3600, but you may have to update the BIOS first. The two above come with Ryzen 3xxx compatible bios from the start and also support Bios Flashback.

 

90$ ASRock B450 Pro4: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/PCKcCJ/asrock-b450-pro4-atx-am4-motherboard-b450-pro4

which costs around 100$, saving you 15-30$ (depending where you buy board from)

 

You don't need a 850w PSU, go with a 550w-650w PSU.

The RX 570 consumes up to around 170w, the Ryzen 3600 probably won't go over 100w and the rest won't go over 50-100w, so you're looking at 350w maximum, making a 550w psu more than enough.

 

An RX 590 is $180 and this one doesn't go over 250w... with the savings in motherboard and psu, you would have the budget for it, here's for example Sapphire Pulse model: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/6h66Mp/sapphire-radeon-rx-590-8-gb-pulse-video-card-11289-06-20g

 

[Juular]

Zen 2 CPUs are less picky than previous generations so don't worry about QVL. And there's 3600MHz 16CL kit from G.Skill for 70$ (assuming you're in US).

[zua93117]

23 minutes ago, mariushm said:

You can go with cheaper boards:

 

100$ MSI B450-A Pro : https://pcpartpicker.com/product/pBWfrH/msi-b450-a-pro-atx-am4-motherboard-b450-a-pro

100$ MSI B450 Gaming Plus MAX : https://pcpartpicker.com/product/BHBhP6/msi-b450-gaming-plus-max-atx-am4-motherboard-b450-gaming-plus-max

 

This one also works great with 3600, but you may have to update the BIOS first. The two above come with Ryzen 3xxx compatible bios from the start and also support Bios Flashback.

 

90$ ASRock B450 Pro4: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/PCKcCJ/asrock-b450-pro4-atx-am4-motherboard-b450-pro4

which costs around 100$, saving you 15-30$ (depending where you buy board from)

 

You don't need a 850w PSU, go with a 550w-650w PSU.

The RX 570 consumes up to around 170w, the Ryzen 3600 probably won't go over 100w and the rest won't go over 50-100w, so you're looking at 350w maximum, making a 550w psu more than enough.

 

An RX 590 is $180 and this one doesn't go over 250w... with the savings in motherboard and psu, you would have the budget for it, here's for example Sapphire Pulse model: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/6h66Mp/sapphire-radeon-rx-590-8-gb-pulse-video-card-11289-06-20g

 

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

The PSU was from my previous computer. Though the computer's old, the PSU itself is only about 2 years old at most.

 

I was also trying to decde between MSI b450 motherboards for a long time. I ended up going for Tomahawk Max due to the VRM.

Gaming Pro Carbon AC seemed to have the best VRM out of the B450 boards, but it's kind of expensive compared to the other MSI b450 boards. Tomahawk's not much of a VRM downgrade so I went with it. I don't know much about computers, so I wasn't sure whether further downgrading the VRM would be okay (Gaming Plus has a smaller heat sink if I'm correct?)

 

I thought about saving even more money by getting the non-max versions, but having bigger BIOS chips (nicer BIOS setting menu and more future proof??) and updated ram speed support for Ryzen gen 3 seems nice, though I don't know how important those two factors are. 

 

I can get Rx 570 for $160 but for an extra $20, the Rx 590 seems like a total winner.

Thank you!

[zua93117]

6 minutes ago, Juular said:

Zen 2 CPUs are less picky than previous generations so don't worry about QVL. And there's 3600MHz 16CL kit from G.Skill for 70$ (assuming you're in US).

Oh, that's good to hear.

Thanks for the tip! I'm not in the US, but I could still get that.

[Juular]

Be adviced that while Zen 2 are less picky per se, since XMP profiles on 90% of kits are tested on Intel platforms only (it's Intel standard) it may still not work, but you just need set the same clocks and primary timings manually (in BIOS\UEFI) and it'll work, you can even try to tighten primary timings (CL at least).

[zua93117]

1 minute ago, Juular said:

Be adviced that while Zen 2 are less picky per se, since XMP profiles on 90% of kits are tested on Intel platforms only (it's Intel standard) it may still not work, but you just need set the same clocks and primary timings manually (in BIOS\UEFI) and it'll work, you can even try to tighten primary timings (CL at least).

Thanks for the heads up

[mariushm]

1 minute ago, zua93117 said:

I was also trying to decde between MSI b450 motherboards for a long time. I ended up going for Tomahawk Max due to the VRM.

Gaming Pro Carbon AC seemed to have the best VRM out of the B450 boards, but it's kind of expensive compared to the other MSI b450 boards. Tomahawk's not much of a VRM downgrade so I went with it. I don't know much about computers, so I wasn't sure whether further downgrading the VRM would be okay (Gaming Plus's VRM is a bit of a downgrade from Tomahawk's if I'm correct?)

See https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

They have same mosfets, difference is just heatsink and maybe a bit more refined / tweaked bios settings on tomohawk or gaming carbon pro. carbon also has wireless and better sound (alc1220 vs older alc892)

3600 is not power hungry chip, and all these can handle even 12 core 3900 with small OC

 

 

 

heres a comparison if interested (screenshot from local it store) - click to zoom

 

[zua93117]

1 minute ago, mariushm said:

See https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9_E3h8bLp-TXr-0zTJFqqVxdCR9daIVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

They have same mosfets, difference is just heatsink and maybe a bit more refined / tweaked bios settings on tomohawk or gaming carbon pro. carbon also has wireless and better sound (alc1220 vs older alc892)

3600 is not power hungry chip, and all these can handle even 12 core 3900 with small OC

 

 

 

heres a comparison if interested (screenshot from local it store) - click to zoom

 

That's awesome info, thank you!

I'll happily go with Gaming Plus then.

 

I was considering Gaming Pro Carbon since I'd use the built-in bluetooth. But, I could use that but I could easily get a bluetooth adapter for ~$10. Nicer sound is attractive.  ..but internal sound card's gonna get interference anyway... If I'm going that route, I'd get an external DAC someday - it's kind of a luxury at the moment.

[mariushm]

yeah  gaming plus max vs tomo - 1 usb type c  on tomo , 1 extra pci-e x1 on gaming

b450-a pro same as gaming plus but  also has vga besides hdmi and dvi  if you'll ever need to use 3 monitors with itegrated graphics or vga only monitor

 

non max models have a more text bios, grayscale icons but otherwise same as MAX models (just different bios chip size forcing them to use smaller graphics in bios to sqyeeze everything in the memory chip)

 

[zua93117]

10 minutes ago, mariushm said:

yeah  gaming plus max vs tomo - 1 usb type c  on tomo , 1 extra pci-e x1 on gaming

b450-a pro same as gaming plus but  also has vga besides hdmi and dvi  if you'll ever need to use 3 monitors with itegrated graphics or vga only monitor

 

non max models have a more text bios, grayscale icons but otherwise same as MAX models (just different bios chip size forcing them to use smaller graphics in bios to sqyeeze everything in the memory chip)

 

Just one question - some articles mention the bigger bios chips as being more "future proof" in regards to bios updates or even new cpus.

 

Honestly, I don't know how much this "future-proof" thing will help. I could save another $20 + tax by getting non-max Gaming Plus, but I'm a bit hesistant.

Is there ever a case where the max version could use a new line of cpu, but the non-max version can't just because the bios chip is too small (or the manufacturer just gives up on the non-max version, which is equally bad)

 

[mariushm]

unlikely. There's probably gonna be just one more generation (Ryzen 4xxx ) before moving to socket AM5 or whatever is called.

 

If needed probably they're gonna have option to get bios that drops ryzen 1 and 2 support, leaving only ryzen 3 and 4.

[zua93117]

3 minutes ago, mariushm said:

unlikely. There's probably gonna be just one more generation (Ryzen 4xxx ) before moving to socket AM5 or whatever is called.

 

If needed probably they're gonna have option to get bios that drops ryzen 1 and 2 support, leaving only ryzen 3 and 4.

That's quite a good speculation actually  thank you!

[Mister Woof]

1 hour ago, zua93117 said:

Thank you! I'll go for the cheaper ram option then.

 

Ah..that PSU is from my previous build...

but yikes! it was B+ in the previous PSU tier list. Didn't know about the potential dangers.

 

I feel you

 

Mine were A tier until recently. Magically turned to shit in the blink on an eye. Interestingly enough they work perfectly still, so they must not have got the memo.