Help me choose my first 60% mechanical keyboard

[tony01]

I'm about to buy my first 60% keyboard. I've done some researches and I've chosen these models:

• Ducky One 2 Mini for 90€ (100$)

• KBParadise v60 for 130€ (143$)

• Vortex POK3R for 160€ (177$) (but it's waaaay to expensive for me)

• any other keyboard you know in the 100-120€ price range

Which one do you suggest and why?

 

I will use it for writing (I don't do any gaming). Plus, I don't really need RGB.

 

I've chosen Cherry Brown switches since my use case is writing, but some people suggest the Cherry Clear which are similar to the Brown but have a stronger feedback. Do you agree?

Sorry for all these questions but I'm new in this sector and I hope to learn some from you guys

 

Thank you in advance

[BrinkGG]

8 minutes ago, tony01 said:

I'm about to buy my first 60% keyboard. I've done some researches and I've chosen these models:

• Ducky One 2 Mini for 90€ (100$)

• KBParadise v60 for 130€ (143$)

• Vortex POK3R for 160€ (177$) (but it's waaaay to expensive for me)

• any other keyboard you know in the 100-120€ price range

Which one do you suggest and why?

 

I've chosen Cherry Brown switches since my use case is writing, but some people suggest the Cherry Clear which are similar to the Brown but have a stronger feedback. Do you agree?

Sorry for all these questions but I'm new in this sector and I hope to learn some from you guys

 

Thank you in advance

Personally I like Blues and Clears for switches, but that is TRUELY personal preference. If you're coming from membrane switches, Browns are probably better as the actuation weight will be similar. If you already have mechs and like the feel, buy the same switch type you already have. 

 

Out of those three keyboards, I lean towards the ducky just because of how well they've lased for me and MANY other people I've worked with. But the Pok3r is an industry standard when it comes to small scale keyboards like 75% or smaller. I have no experience with the KBP boards.

[tony01]

3 minutes ago, BrinkGG said:

Personally I like Blues and Clears for switches, but that is TRUELY personal preference. If you're coming from membrane switches, Browns are probably better as the actuation weight will be similar. If you already have mechs and like the feel, buy the same switch type you already have. 

 

Out of those three keyboards, I lean towards the ducky just because of how well they've lased for me and MANY other people I've worked with. But the Pok3r is an industry standard when it comes to small scale keyboards like 75% or smaller. I have no experience with the KBP boards.

Thanks for your reply. I was also checking the AKKO 3068 (without backling which I don't need). What about the quality of this keyboard?

 

Probably I'm gonna buy the Ducky. I'll check if I can find any deal for the Pok3r, otherwise I'll go for the ducky.

In Europe is really difficult to find these keyboards

[ZivZulander]

MX Clears are good if you can train yourself not to bottom them out. Otherwise they are too heavy for a lot of people. I like Clears and can use them without bottoming out most of the time, though I do find them a little more fatiguing than my favorite vintage switches or Topre.

I would look at 60% or 65% hotswap keyboards (I'm assuming you don't want to do custom, but prebuilt hotswaps are dead simple to change switches). You can find them fairly inexpensively these days (e.g. iGK61), and tactiles from Gateron, Kailh, and others are much better than MX Brown in my opinion. And with hotswap if you don't like the included switches, you can always swap them out.

 

[tony01]

4 minutes ago, ZivZulander said:

MX Clears are good if you can train yourself not to bottom them out. Otherwise they are too heavy for a lot of people. I like Clears and can use them without bottoming out most of the time, though I do find them a little more fatiguing than my favorite vintage switches or Topre.

I would look at 60% or 65% hotswap keyboards (I'm assuming you don't want to do custom). You can find them fairly inexpensively these days (e.g. iGK61), and tactiles from Gateron, Kailh, and others are much better than MX Brown in my opinion. And with hotswap if you don't like the included switches, you can always swap them out.

 

I checked the iGK61 and it has the arrow keys, which I don't need. I prefer a 60% keyboard over a 65%.

[ZivZulander]

25 minutes ago, tony01 said:

I checked the iGK61 and it has the arrow keys, which I don't need. I prefer a 60% keyboard over a 65%.

Well, if the arrow keys really bother you, by all means get one of the keyboards you linked to. But I don't know many (any?) people who like Cherry MX Brown over other switches once they've experienced modern MX alternatives or older, non-Cherry switch types. At best, Cherry MX Brown is average. It's scratchy and not very tactile; paying $100 or more to be locked in to Browns is a waste of money these days, even on good boards like you listed, given how inexpensive mechanical keyboards have gotten.

 

I would just buy a cheap Redragon if you want Cherry MX.

[tony01]

1 minute ago, ZivZulander said:

Well, if the arrow keys really bother you, by all means get one of the keyboards you linked to. But I don't know many (any?) people who like Cherry MX Brown over other switches once they've experienced modern MX alternatives or older, non-Cherry switch types. At best, Cherry MX Brown is average. It's scratchy and not very tactile; paying $100 or more to be locked in to Browns is a waste of money these days, even on good boards like you listed, given how inexpensive mechanical keyboards have gotten.

 

I would just buy a cheap Reddragon if you want Cherry MX.

This is my first mechanical keyboard, so I can't compare it to anything.

Is the iGK64 fully programmable? What is the difference between this and the ducky? But I don't think I'll ever change switches

[ZivZulander]

30 minutes ago, tony01 said:

This is my first mechanical keyboard, so I can't compare it to anything.

Is the iGK64 fully programmable? What is the difference between this and the ducky? But I don't think I'll ever change switches

Yes, it's fully programmable.

Also, there's the GMMK 60% (no arrow keys), if it's available where you are.
Even if you don't want to swap out the switches, they come with Gateron Browns, which are smoother than Cherry MX Browns.

There's nothing wrong with Ducky, and it's good build quality and highly reviewed, but personally having started on MX Brown for my first mechanical, I find it hard to recommend it anymore. There are just so many better options. That said, it's kind of an inoffensive switch, even if mediocre - you probably won't hate it, but you'll likely prefer other switches if you try them out. I would say Cherry MX Brown is like the Toyota Corolla of the keyboard switch world.

 

For other non-hot swap options, the Anne Pro 2 ($100 on Amazon US) also comes with Kailh BOX (I like Kailh BOX switches) and Gateron options.
You can get some idea of what I am talking about by checking out reviews and typing tests on various switch types on Youtube, particularly videos from Chyrosran22 or Taeha Types.

Also, whatever you get, good keycaps make a world of difference. Even ~$30 PBT keycaps  (or failing that, thick doubleshot ABS) can greatly improve typing feel and sound. Not something you need to do right away, but something to keep in mind for later on if you find your keycaps shining up (which ABS will do if you type a lot) or you just want to upgrade the experience.

[tony01]

1 hour ago, ZivZulander said:

Yes, it's fully programmable.

Also, there's the GMMK 60% (no arrow keys), if it's available where you are.
Even if you don't want to swap out the switches, they come with Gateron Browns, which are smoother than Cherry MX Browns.

There's nothing wrong with Ducky, and it's good build quality and highly reviewed, but personally having started on MX Brown for my first mechanical, I find it hard to recommend it anymore. There are just so many better options. That said, it's kind of an inoffensive switch, even if mediocre - you probably won't hate it, but you'll likely prefer other switches if you try them out. I would say Cherry MX Brown is like the Toyota Corolla of the keyboard switch world.

 

For other non-hot swap options, the Anne Pro 2 ($100 on Amazon US) also comes with Kailh BOX (I like Kailh BOX switches) and Gateron options.
You can get some idea of what I am talking about by checking out reviews and typing tests on various switch types on Youtube, particularly videos from Chyrosran22 or Taeha Types.

Also, whatever you get, good keycaps make a world of difference. Even ~$30 PBT keycaps  (or failing that, thick doubleshot ABS) can greatly improve typing feel and sound. Not something you need to do right away, but something to keep in mind for later on if you find your keycaps shining up (which ABS will do if you type a lot) or you just want to upgrade the experience.

The GMMK would be 80€ for the base + 35€ for switches from aliexpress + 30€ for keycaps. So the total is 145-150€.

Im trying to stay under 100€.

The Anne Pro 2 quality is meh compared to the ducky.

I don’t know at this point what to get

The only Keyboard accessible for my budget is the Ducky.

 

[Tonberry]

5 hours ago, tony01 said:

• Ducky One 2 Mini for 90€ (100$)

• KBParadise v60 for 130€ (143$)

• Vortex POK3R for 160€ (177$)

Between these 3, I vote for KBP V60 with Gateron/Kailh switches. You can swap its ABS caps with PBT set, it's nice. I have the V60 Dolch with Kailh box pale blue switch.

 

The Ducky is nice in RGB and PBT caps. But the RGB LED is not durable as expected. I have one, and now my "Fn" key light fades away.

[seon123]

5 hours ago, tony01 said:

I checked the iGK61 and it has the arrow keys, which I don't need. I prefer a 60% keyboard over a 65%.

You have likely confused the iGK61 with the iGK64. The 61 is a standard 60%, the 64 is a 65%.

 

You can also get a custom for about your budget. $137,84 + €8,80. You can change the case for a cheaper one if you want.

 

Box Brown

https://kbdfans.com/collections/kailh-switches/products/switch-68-cherry-gateron-zealio?variant=43337705165

 

DZ60

https://kbdfans.com/collections/60/products/dz60-60-pcb?variant=28607000641584

 

Random wooden case

https://kbdfans.com/collections/60-layout-case/products/60-keyboard-wood-case

 

Aluminium plate

https://kbdfans.com/collections/plate/products/dz60-cnc-aluminum-plate

 

Cherry screw in stabilisers

https://kbdfans.com/collections/keyboard-stabilizer/products/cherry-screw-in-stabilizer

 

Cheap double shot PBT keycaps

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32912268286.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5139793fj2K8zs&algo_pvid=73d24ae5-4b9c-4669-9886-3337671be9c4&algo_expid=73d24ae5-4b9c-4669-9886-3337671be9c4-0&btsid=76917428-57dd-404a-9c6e-5848afb357f7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_52

[tony01]

28 minutes ago, seon123 said:

You have likely confused the iGK61 with the iGK64. The 61 is a standard 60%, the 64 is a 65%.

 

You can also get a custom for about your budget. $137,84 + €8,80. You can change the case for a cheaper one if you want.

 

Box Brown

https://kbdfans.com/collections/kailh-switches/products/switch-68-cherry-gateron-zealio?variant=43337705165

 

DZ60

https://kbdfans.com/collections/60/products/dz60-60-pcb?variant=28607000641584

 

Random wooden case

https://kbdfans.com/collections/60-layout-case/products/60-keyboard-wood-case

 

Aluminium plate

https://kbdfans.com/collections/plate/products/dz60-cnc-aluminum-plate

 

Cherry screw in stabilisers

https://kbdfans.com/collections/keyboard-stabilizer/products/cherry-screw-in-stabilizer

 

Cheap double shot PBT keycaps

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32912268286.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5139793fj2K8zs&algo_pvid=73d24ae5-4b9c-4669-9886-3337671be9c4&algo_expid=73d24ae5-4b9c-4669-9886-3337671be9c4-0&btsid=76917428-57dd-404a-9c6e-5848afb357f7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_52

Thanks. I’ve checked a YouTube video about assembling a keyboard and.... do I have to lube every single switch?

[seon123]

22 minutes ago, tony01 said:

Thanks. I’ve checked a YouTube video about assembling a keyboard and.... do I have to lube every single switch?

No, lubing is not necessary. The Box switches also have some lube pre applied. You can lube the stabilisers, that shouldn't take too much time. 

[tony01]

24 minutes ago, seon123 said:

No, lubing is not necessary. The Box switches also have some lube pre applied. You can lube the stabilisers, that shouldn't take too much time. 

Is this necessary?

 

 

So, buying everything from aliexpress will cost 120€. Is a better value than the ducky?

[seon123]

2 hours ago, tony01 said:

Is this necessary?

 

 

So, buying everything from aliexpress will cost 120€. Is a better value than the ducky?

Saying you can do something means that it's not necessary.

Depending on which exact parts you choose, it can be a better deal. You get more customisable software, and much better switches. You can also choose your own switches, depending on your exact preference. You may want to get a switch tester to see what you like the feel of. Do keep in mind that you'll have to solder in the switches with the standard DZ60. It's super easy, but requires you to have access to a soldering iron.

[tony01]

6 hours ago, seon123 said:

Saying you can do something means that it's not necessary.

Depending on which exact parts you choose, it can be a better deal. You get more customisable software, and much better switches. You can also choose your own switches, depending on your exact preference. You may want to get a switch tester to see what you like the feel of. Do keep in mind that you'll have to solder in the switches with the standard DZ60. It's super easy, but requires you to have access to a soldering iron.

There is a version which doesn’t require soldering. It’s dz60 hot swappable. Is this good?

The total without an aluminum case is about 120€.

So, Should I prefer a custom built instead of a premade  keyboard?

thanks

[tony01]

Hello! I've made this build from yours:

• DZ60 CNC (ALUMINUM/STEEL/BRASS) PLATE https://kbdfans.com/products/dz60-cnc-aluminum-plate?variant=2208864436237
  do I have to choose left shift 2U or 2.25U? I dont want the arrow keys

• Cherry Screw in Stabilizer https://kbdfans.com/products/cherry-screw-in-stabilizer?variant=30249043132555

• 60% PLASTIC CASE https://kbdfans.com/products/60-plastic-case?variant=36020991757

• box brown switches

• DZ60RGB-ANSI Mechanical keyboard PCB hot swap https://kbdfans.com/products/dz60rgb-ansi-mechanical-keyboard-pcb?variant=22887658782768

 

The total is 132$ and I have to choose some keycaps. Can you suggest a good set of keycaps from the same site? Maybe some cheap ones.

Or is it better to buy from another site?

 

[seon123]

4 hours ago, tony01 said:

There is a version which doesn’t require soldering. It’s dz60 hot swappable. Is this good?

The total without an aluminum case is about 120€.

So, Should I prefer a custom built instead of a premade  keyboard?

thanks

The hot swap version is fine. I think @sowon has a DZ60? Getting a custom will allow you to choose the exact parts you want for everything. You can also upgrade the case and keycaps easily, since you know it's a standard.

[tony01]

Just now, seon123 said:

The hot swap version is fine. I think @sowon has a DZ60? Getting a custom will allow you to choose the exact parts you want for everything. You can also upgrade the case and keycaps easily, since you know it's a standard.

Combining offers from aliexpress and kbdfans I can manage to get everything for 104€ (115$). So I can spend 20€ (about 22$) on keycaps. What do you suggest?

[seon123]

Just now, tony01 said:

Combining offers from aliexpress and kbdfans I can manage to get everything for 104€ (115$). So I can spend 20€ (about 22$) on keycaps. What do you suggest?

Go to Aliexpress, and look for double shot PBT or dye sub PBT keycaps. Most should be OEM profile or Cherry profile.

Spoiler

https://flashquark.com/product/mix-profile-keycaps-pbt-black-keys-with-blue-legends-110-keys/

If you don't like the look of any of them, you can check out double shot ABS keycaps. If you are more patient, you might find something on Drop.com for a decent price.

[tony01]

30 minutes ago, seon123 said:

Go to Aliexpress, and look for double shot PBT or dye sub PBT keycaps. Most should be OEM profile or Cherry profile.

  Hide contents

https://flashquark.com/product/mix-profile-keycaps-pbt-black-keys-with-blue-legends-110-keys/

If you don't like the look of any of them, you can check out double shot ABS keycaps. If you are more patient, you might find something on Drop.com for a decent price.

Thanks. The plate should have left shift 2u or 2.5u?

[seon123]

5 minutes ago, tony01 said:

Thanks. The plate should have left shift 2u or 2.5u?

The normal size for the left shift is 2,25u...

[jiyeon]

56 minutes ago, seon123 said:

I think @sowon has a DZ60?

I've got both the DZ60-ANSI which is a regular 61-key 60% of an ANSI keyboard, and the DZ60 which is a 64-key 60% PCB which includes arrow keys and 2 1u keys to the right of the spacebar.

 

@tony01 If you commit to a DZ60, I will be able to teach you how to flash custom firmware on it. Don't do my mistake and flash the wrong firmware due to the names of the PCBs being so similar.

[tony01]

1 hour ago, sowon said:

I've got both the DZ60-ANSI which is a regular 61-key 60% of an ANSI keyboard, and the DZ60 which is a 64-key 60% PCB which includes arrow keys and 2 1u keys to the right of the spacebar.

 

@tony01 If you commit to a DZ60, I will be able to teach you how to flash custom firmware on it. Don't do my mistake and flash the wrong firmware due to the names of the PCBs being so similar.

I would be really pleased if you could dedicate five minutes of your time to check this build. I'll buy everything from aliexpress on 11/11 to get a discount.

 

• https://aliexpress.com/item/32955832280.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1da93c00s86DSf&mp=1
• https://aliexpress.com/item/32863000252.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1da93c00s86DSf&mp=1 (plate a 2u left shift, correct?)
• https://aliexpress.com/item/32838779716.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1da93c00s86DSf&mp=1 (x60 or x61 ?)
• https://aliexpress.com/item/32804361864.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1da93c00s86DSf&mp=1
• https://aliexpress.com/item/4000203292620.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1da93c00s86DSf&mp=1
• https://aliexpress.com/item/33018580662.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1da93c00s86DSf&mp=1

 

(I put some questions in bracket)

Thanks in advance for your patience! Sorry for my ignorance, but this is my first mechanical keyboard. In the future I'll buy an aluminum case 

[jiyeon]

26 minutes ago, tony01 said:

https://aliexpress.com/item/32863000252.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1da93c00s86DSf&mp=1 (plate a 2u left shift, correct?)

You'd want the 2.25u left shift, aka plate-B.

 

27 minutes ago, tony01 said:

https://aliexpress.com/item/32838779716.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1da93c00s86DSf&mp=1 (x60 or x61 ?)

It's safer to get 70 switches just in case you mess something up or some are DOA.

 

Your build is looking good, they're all compatible.

 

30 minutes ago, tony01 said:

In the future I'll buy an aluminum case

What's stopping you from buying the aluminum case right now?