phone cameras

TheBean · September 27, 2019

why is it so hard to get good quality images from phones? im talking specifically about the software on phones. like the pixel is FAR superior in pictures in most cases. but all high end phones used the same sony sensor. why is there so much variance?

I love the mate 30 pro pictures but that uses a RYYB (or something like that) sensor so lets ignore that.

LyondellBasell · September 27, 2019

3 hours ago, Saksham said:

why is it so hard to get good quality images from phones? im talking specifically about the software on phones. like the pixel is FAR superior in pictures in most cases. but all high end phones used the same sony sensor. why is there so much variance?

I love the mate 30 pro pictures but that uses a RYYB (or something like that) sensor so lets ignore that.

The inherent challenge for all phone camera designers boils down to the requisite size of the device. They don't have alot of space to work with, so they can't use a large sensor. Without a large sensor and lens, they are physically limited in the amount of light/photons they can capture in a specific window of time.

There is A LOT that great software can do to work towards overcoming this limitation, but it IS a limitation.

TheBean · September 27, 2019

13 hours ago, LyondellBasell said:

The inherent challenge for all phone camera designers boils down to the requisite size of the device. They don't have alot of space to work with, so they can't use a large sensor. Without a large sensor and lens, they are physically limited in the amount of light/photons they can capture in a specific window of time.

There is A LOT that great software can do to work towards overcoming this limitation, but it IS a limitation.

thats not my question. obviously a dslr can get a mssive sensor to get more light/data. I want to know why is te consistency so bad between phones with even the same sensor? Everyone complains that samsung makes their pictures too saturated but they never change that. oneplus complaints include bad dynamic range. but they often have the same sensor. why?

brandishwar · September 27, 2019

22 minutes ago, Saksham said:

thats not my question. obviously a dslr can get a mssive sensor to get more light/data. I want to know why is te consistency so bad between phones with even the same sensor? Everyone complains that samsung makes their pictures too saturated but they never change that. oneplus complaints include bad dynamic range. but they often have the same sensor. why?

With the same sensor, there are obviously other variables at play. One is the lens. Which is going to play a BIG role in the picture quality. How the software interprets the signal coming from the camera is also important. Now same OS with the same sensor should mean the lens is the only variable, unless there are issues with the electronics.

And given how tiny the lenses are in smartphones, that doesn't leave a lot of room to get everything right. It's why with interchangeable lens cameras, the best lenses are also the most expensive for the focal range (and whether zoom or prime). Zeiss lenses, for example, have some of the best glass you can find in interchangeable lens cameras, and so can produce the sharpest images, but they come with a massive price tag as well. Lesser glass means lesser image quality but a lower price tag.

That's the case with smartphone cameras in a nutshell. Better smartphones are (hopefully) going to have better glass for their camera lens.

Ankerson · September 30, 2019

On 9/27/2019 at 6:01 PM, brandishwar said:

With the same sensor, there are obviously other variables at play. One is the lens. Which is going to play a BIG role in the picture quality. How the software interprets the signal coming from the camera is also important. Now same OS with the same sensor should mean the lens is the only variable, unless there are issues with the electronics.

And given how tiny the lenses are in smartphones, that doesn't leave a lot of room to get everything right. It's why with interchangeable lens cameras, the best lenses are also the most expensive for the focal range (and whether zoom or prime). Zeiss lenses, for example, have some of the best glass you can find in interchangeable lens cameras, and so can produce the sharpest images, but they come with a massive price tag as well. Lesser glass means lesser image quality but a lower price tag.

That's the case with smartphone cameras in a nutshell. Better smartphones are (hopefully) going to have better glass for their camera lens.

They have VERY small sensors and very small lenses, so for the most part that equals crap images.

Even the cheap kit lenses for DSLR's are far better than any cell phone lens could ever be.

In a nutshell even an entry level DSLR with a kit lens and set to AUTO will take much better photos than any cell phone.

I doubt that will ever change.

If they actually put a good sized senor in a cell phone the cost would skyrocket and then there is the glass to worry about. If people wanted to pay $5,000 for a smart phone and have to attach a lens to it then maybe....

However we keep seeing crap photos from people using cell phones that think they are doing something when in fact they are not. Other than wasting space on the internet and those crap photos showing on my feeds. Calling anything from a cell phone a photo is a large stretch in the 1st place.

If they want to take photos buy a real camera and learn how to use it.

Any photographer knows the most important thing is glass (Lenses). Good glass is expensive, the better it is the more expensive it becomes.

People thinking they will ever be able to even come close to a DSLR image quality out of a crap cell phone camera are delusional at best.

harryk · October 2, 2019

In regards to smartphone cameras, we are now it the era of computational photography. Since every smartphone is limited to roughly the same size and lens, the innovation and competition is currently focused on the software side. This is why you see such variety in performance across different smartphones.

The CMOS sensor in the camera simply returns an integer number corresponding to how much light hit the pixel. How you interpret that number is entirely up to software. Additionally many smartphones are also doing some form of post-proccessing automatically in an attempt to make the image look more visually appealing; things like contrast, saturation, sharpening, noise reduction etc. In the right scenarios and with a photographer who understands what the smartphone is actually doing, this can produce some fantastic images. However, this software does not work well in all shooting scenarios, some of which may result in some awful looking photos.

Ankerson · October 2, 2019

12 hours ago, harryk said:

In regards to smartphone cameras, we are now it the era of computational photography. Since every smartphone is limited to roughly the same size and lens, the innovation and competition is currently focused on the software side. This is why you see such variety in performance across different smartphones.

The CMOS sensor in the camera simply returns an integer number corresponding to how much light hit the pixel. How you interpret that number is entirely up to software. Additionally many smartphones are also doing some form of post-proccessing automatically in an attempt to make the image look more visually appealing; things like contrast, saturation, sharpening, noise reduction etc. In the right scenarios and with a photographer who understands what the smartphone is actually doing, this can produce some fantastic images. However, this software does not work well in all shooting scenarios, some of which may result in some awful looking photos.

Ah, that's not all of it..... Not even close.

Software will never be able to resolve an image when the data just isn't there in the 1st place.

The reason why cell phones will never come even remotely close to a DSLR.

The glass isn't there and never will be to actually give the resolution and the sensors are WAAAAAAAY to small.....

Looking good is subjective to who is actually looking at the so called photo. Given the quality of the so called cell phone photos that are the norm people must be blind or looking at them on very small screens if they believe they are good or even worthy of being called a photo. That or they don't know what a good photo really is to start with.

They are trying to do something with software that just isn't possible on that small scale... The glass will never be there and without that it will never happen.....

DSLR's and Medium Format CAMERAS... That's right, real freaking cameras will continue to get better as will the lenses because they can due to the format and mechanics of the CAMERAS lenses.

Even the entry level DSLRS are 24mp and above now with 36mp starting to become the norm for more advanced DSLRS and 45mp to 100mp and beyond already on the market for Medium format. And that's not even getting into the lenses that are needed that can actually resolve the data needed.

Those kiddie toys will never come close to a DSLR in reality.