Upgrading laptops with CNVio WiFi adapters (eg Intel AC 9560) to newer Intel WiFi 6 (AX200) WiFi 6e (AX210) WiFi 7 (BE200) cards

[Alex Atkin UK]

6 hours ago, LeDoc said:

Hey, so my addition to this hardware lab of doom:

• I tried to install an AX200 into an Acer Swift 1 SF114-32, that comes with an AC 9560. Result: Bluetooth works, WLAN doesn't show. Same goes for a salvaged (but working) 8265NGW. There is no indication of whitelisting with Acer, higher tier models seem to accept other WLAN cards. But their BIOS is really awefull (InsydeH2O), so no way to fiddle with settings. My guess is, that it is wired for CNVIO and that's it. I am reluctant to throw it the AX201 bone. Also because the upgrade is not really necessary.
• Second try was to insert the AX200 card into my work laptop DELL Latitude 7490 (that had said 8265NGW installed before) aaaaaand it's dead. Well, at first it was dead. But pulling the main battery (and interestingly not the CMOS Battery) for a minute or so did the trick. System boots, both Bluetooth and Wifi show in device manager. It also connects to my Wifi6 capable router as expected and shows WIFI6 as connection type. But I didn't buy the card for my employer
• Third experiment (maybe something for firesyde424): a similar m.2 to miniPCIE adapter as you linked is in the mail. I will try it in an old Lenovo X220, which will be interesting on its own. I will add the results.

So, if anyone has experience in adding Wifi6 to the Swift 1, let me know.

Edit: Has anyone experience with vPro vs non-vPro versions of these cards?

I think its pretty much confirmed that AX201 only works with 10th gen Intel CPUs at this point.

M.2 to miniPCIe should work, the only catch is I believe the antenna connection also changed due to needing something smaller for to fit on an M.2.

[Alex Atkin UK]

On 5/21/2020 at 1:19 PM, firesyde424 said:

I'm curious if something like this might be a workaround or if I'll need to give up a full PCIe slot.

If your motherboard has that slot, it should theoretically work as the only change was in dimensions to squeeze cards more easily into smaller laptops.

[Gtcrz]

AX 200 worked fine for me. I made a video on this.

 

https://youtu.be/c4G7mfKVcp4

[RICHJR]

LOL! some mfr use motherboards that have specific requirements and design for WiFi cards they intend to use. And yes! the mfr through their BIOS will and can prohibit you from upgrading. The Killer AX 201 is suppose to be a replacement for the Intel AC 9560.  Before you consider purchasing a new WiFi card, contact the mfr. technical support. However, most times they may not reply or will tell you it is not upgradable. Often following company policy or just the fact your laptop is specified only to work with that WiFi card.

If you had your laptop custom built by a company like Origin or Falcon Northwest, good chance you are able to upgrade most components / hardware, except the CPU. Sometimes you can level up one or two on the GPU and also get the screen replaced depending upon motherboard, CPU and GPU compatibility. If possible always go for the highest battery output Wh. or one notch down. Example a 80Wh is the biggest and baddest that will fit but cost way too much then see if a 74.5 Wh will suffice as only applies in getting a custom built.Everything screams for more power. So if you are not wealthy chances are you will not afford to get a nice custom built PC (desktop or laptop).

Before giving up. Stay content with what you do have and be patience. Good chance in another year to 18 months saved enough money to buy that better computer which will also have that WiFi 6,  Blue Tooth 5 and Dual Band ability. My daughter's 2019 ACER Predator Helios 300 has the Killer AX 1650 and has no issues.  So not all stuff made by Killer is crap. "If it ain't broken then don't try to fix it".  Just remember for every dollar you spend, 50 cents goes supporting those on welfare and 20 cents to Federal government. Hard to save money when there are so many systems taking. Tax Payer dollars don't go far, then you have Charity asking all the time for donations. Solution: ALWAYS PAY YOURSELF FIRST.

[PacoS]

I brought both AX200 and AX201 to upgrade my laptop Dell 7390 with 8265NGW and my desktop which is i5-9400F on a Gigabyte B360N WIFI with 9560NGW....and the AX200 worked on both but the AX201 didn't work on the desktop. So yes....I guess "AX201 only works with 10th gen Intel CPUs"

[ArunMKumar]

found this on the product page for the Intel Wifi 6 kit.

https://www.newegg.com/global/in-en/intel-wi-fi-6-ax200/p/N82E16833106102

for AX200:   Your PC will need an open M.2 slot (key E for Wi-Fi) on your motherboard. This product is supported by Intel® Core™ 8th, 9th and 10th gen processors.

 

if only key 'E' is needed, then it makes the connector having only the 'E' key compatible with

9560

9260

AX200

AX201

and so on...

 

what it boils down to is the CNVI support, AX201 with CNVI2 is not backward compatible with CNVI (strange).

and CNVI and CNVI2 support is based on the chipset.

 

had a look at the data-sheets of C200 and C400 and their CNVI implementation. It gives an overall description of the signals and Pins to use. It does not discuss stuff in detail but here is what I have for observations:

 

400 chipset has 1 additional signal than the C300 chipsets and renames 3 non-CNVi to CNVi pins and adds one more, this usually should mean that the functionality is changing.

These pins do not have any CNVi functionality in the 300 series chipset, and control bluetooth through a I2S bus. but now are included as part of CNVi Pins.

my guess is the newer CNVio2 devices (AX201) are expecting a different signal/protocol on these pins with the same layout on the connector and hence resulting in no-POST.

 

instead of adding pins with versions as we see in PCI-E, here we see a repurpose of the existing signals, its a revamp of the protocol rather than a upgrade. of course it is going to break things. like the moving from DVD to Blu-ray, you would need to buy a blu-ray player to use that.

 

is this fixable with a BIOS update?

depends on what has changed into CNVio2, if the changes depend on the facilities provided by the newer CPU and the chipset then it might not be possible. Like the blu-ray.

 

 

[plcdude]

Hello All,

 

I have successfully upgraded a Dell Precision 3530 from the Intel 9560 to an Intel AX200. WiFi and Bluetooth are fully functional.

 

I initially purchased and installed an AX201. With the AX201 installed the 3530 would not even power-on. After finding this forum and reading through the posts I decided to try the AX200 instead. 

 

I can now confirm that the Intel AX200 will work correctly in the Dell Precision 3530 as a replacement/upgrade for the Intel 9560.

[Jasemvs]

I have a lenovo yoga s740 that has an intel i7 1065g7 cpu and originally had a 9560ngw network card (https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/laptops/yoga/yoga-s-series/Lenovo-Yoga-S740-14IIL/p/88YGS701250). I bought an ax200 to replace the card and it worked perfectly with WiFi and Bluetooth. Its strange because I didnt realise at the time that the laptop used a cnvio2 port which requires an ax201 but it still worked so I'm not complaing but I wonder why it still worked if anyone has an explanation. Am I losing any functionality that I'm not aware of by this?

[silverwing102]

After reading the whole discussion I feel I should go ahead and try the upgrade. 

I have a Dell Inspiron 5590 running Intel i5 10210. I purchased it earlier this year and one of the things I was annoyed with about this laptop was that Dell decided to cut costs and ship this with the Intel AC 9462 (not even 9560 lol). After a bit of research I found that the 9462 card is CNVi only so I would have to upgrade to the ax 201 (didn't know that standard m.2 E-key cards would work pror to reading this).

 

The only problem is that where I live (India), you can't just simply buy this card in particular. The only website that was selling this was a wholeseller and their shipping costs are more than the card itself. I don't like the ac 9462 because it only has a single TX/RX stream whereas literally any other card in the 9000 series has 2/2 TX/Rx streams. Will let you guys know if I decide on buying it but in the meantime, some help would be appreciated on how to purchase this card. 

 

Link to the wholeseller: https://www.mouser.in/ProductDetail/?qs=rkhjVJ6%2F3EJ6fIb3EjIiig%3D%3D

[Alex Atkin UK]

On 8/8/2020 at 4:34 PM, Jasemvs said:

I have a lenovo yoga s740 that has an intel i7 1065g7 cpu and originally had a 9560ngw network card (https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/laptops/yoga/yoga-s-series/Lenovo-Yoga-S740-14IIL/p/88YGS701250). I bought an ax200 to replace the card and it worked perfectly with WiFi and Bluetooth. Its strange because I didnt realise at the time that the laptop used a cnvio2 port which requires an ax201 but it still worked so I'm not complaing but I wonder why it still worked if anyone has an explanation. Am I losing any functionality that I'm not aware of by this?

While Intel didn't make it clear themselves I think its obvious that CNVio must use different pins so sockets can be PCIe, USB and CNVio.  Exactly why a manufacturer would wire both PCIe and CNVio is anyones guess, presumably they just figure its cheaper in the long run as they get to pick whichever card is the best value for money at the time.  I'm just glad they did or we would be stuck with outdated WiFi.

[KeetsScrimalittle]

I tried upgrading from 9560nwg.nv (957715) to ax201ngw.nv(985855) on my asus rog strict scar iii an laptop would not power on.  I searched and it looks like these cards only support i10 processors and my laptop is i9.  

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 minute ago, KeetsScrimalittle said:

I tried upgrading from 9560nwg.nv (957715) to ax201ngw.nv(985855) on my asus rog strict scar iii an laptop would not power on.  I searched and it looks like these cards only support i10 processors and my laptop is i9.  

That's the conclusion we came to yes, but often an AX200 will work in a CNVi port as some are still compatible with PCIe as well.  Unfortunately this is not documented, so if it works or not is entirely trial and error.

[KeetsScrimalittle]

10 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

That's the conclusion we came to yes, but often an AX200 will work in a CNVi port as some are still compatible with PCIe as well.  Unfortunately this is not documented, so if it works or not is entirely trial and error.

Ok I figured I couldn't use that one since the ports are different and Intel says the ax201ngw is a crf module and ax200ngw is not so thought my Bluetooth wouldn't work. Will try it out.  See people make adapters too.

[Jooooooooris]

For me, on my MSI GL75 9SFK, AX200 is working perfectly (BT and Wi-Fi), it has an Intel Wireless-AC 9560 CRF Module before the replacement. I'll try the AX201 later, but i think it will not work because CVNio2 (my laptop is CNVio 1st version)

[Sajuuk]

Sorry for necroposting, but this seems to be the most useful thread in the net on the 9560-vs-AX200/AX201 topic.

 

My personal experience:

MSI GL65-9SEK - chipset HM370 - i7-9750h

This laptop comes with AC-9560-160MHz.

Driver installed 22.10.0.7, Windows ver 10.0.18363.1256

I got AX200 card and put it in replacing 9560.

Everything worked right out of the box with existing drivers. Wifi works - connected to my Asus RT-AX86U on AX without issues. BT works - paired with NV Shield and Samsung S20.

Just in case updated drivers anyway (forced removed and re-installed)

 

Btw, you may ignore everything until the word "but".

 

BUT, my tests are showing that 9560 WiFi works better in all modes!

Even though the AX200 wifi sync at 1.2Gbps, however, the moment data transfer starts (file transfer from/to NAS) - the sync rate drops significantly!

AX200 in the same room (launge) 4m away from router - below 649-721Mbps (file transfer speed about 45-50MB/s; 10m away behind 3 walls (bedroom) - to 325Mbps (actual transfer speed fluctuate 10-30MB/s).

The old AC9560 shows solid 866Mbps sync rate and 4m from the router file transfer 80-85MB/s; 10m away behind 3 walls - sync rate 525-585Mbps and transfer speed stable 55-60MB/s.

 

I have tried forcing AC on AX200 - the results even worse: 30-40MB/s and 10-20MB/s respectively.

 

So, I guess, I am keeping 9560.

Will test this AX200 with my older laptops.

 

 

 

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

15 hours ago, Sajuuk said:

Sorry for necroposting, but this seems to be the most useful thread in the net on the 9560-vs-AX200/AX201 topic.

 

My personal experience:

MSI GL65-9SEK - chipset HM370 - i7-9750h

This laptop comes with AC-9560-160MHz.

Driver installed 22.10.0.7, Windows ver 10.0.18363.1256

I got AX200 card and put it in replacing 9560.

Everything worked right out of the box with existing drivers. Wifi works - connected to my Asus RT-AX86U on AX without issues. BT works - paired with NV Shield and Samsung S20.

Just in case updated drivers anyway (forced removed and re-installed)

 

Btw, you may ignore everything until the word "but".

 

BUT, my tests are showing that 9560 WiFi works better in all modes!

Even though the AX200 wifi sync at 1.2Gbps, however, the moment data transfer starts (file transfer from/to NAS) - the sync rate drops significantly!

AX200 in the same room (launge) 4m away from router - below 649-721Mbps (file transfer speed about 45-50MB/s; 10m away behind 3 walls (bedroom) - to 325Mbps (actual transfer speed fluctuate 10-30MB/s).

The old AC9560 shows solid 866Mbps sync rate and 4m from the router file transfer 80-85MB/s; 10m away behind 3 walls - sync rate 525-585Mbps and transfer speed stable 55-60MB/s.

 

I have tried forcing AC on AX200 - the results even worse: 30-40MB/s and 10-20MB/s respectively.

 

So, I guess, I am keeping 9560.

Will test this AX200 with my older laptops.

 

Very interesting, I haven't had the chance to test AX yet but it works fine for me on AC.  Or at least I "used to" get 80-85MB/s, it has slowed down but I think that's interference or a firmware update on my Access Point, as my phone slowed down too.

[Sajuuk]

I have tested the same AX200 card in Acer VN7-593G (equipped with i7-7700hq on HM175 chipset).

This 2017 laptop came with Qualcomm Atheros QCA61x4A.

I have tested it in exactly the same environment.

The old QCA61x4A scored 866Mbps sync rate and 80-85MB/s real file transfer in the same room with the router within 4m distance. And 10m distance with 3 walls produced the same result as 9560. Nothing new here.

 

BUT, when I installed AX200 into this laptop I was surprized with rock solid 1.2Gbps sync rate and impressive stable 100-110 MB/s transfer speed! (the same room)

The 10m + 3 walls tests gave me 866Mbps and 70-75MB/s.

The same driver version (22.10.0.7)

 

I was puzzled to the point re-running these tests on MSI GL65-9SEK... And I have just finished with the same results as before.

 

This is weird, why AX200 is struggling on the newer laptop?

Is this really something to do with CVNio and regular WiFi cards cannot run properly on this platform?

[Alex Atkin UK]

Seems unlikely as my laptop was CNVio too and I managed to get a decent speed, but I've seen Windows speed throttle for unknown reasons before even on ethernet.

 

The easiest way to test that is to make a Linux Live USB stick and boot from that, do some tests there to see if the speeds are the same.

[Sajuuk]

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Linux Live USB stick

Good point!!! I should have thought of that... but now I am gonna need a new AX200 as I am not getting another chance to pull apart that Acer... not until the end of the school holidays  

[Alex Atkin UK]

In case anyone hasn't noticed, the AX210 is out now and would be advised over the AX200 as it includes the new 6Ghz support.

 

It likely wont have the best reception on existing antennas designed only for 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz, but in the same room I expect it will still work well on a WiFi 6E network.

[Sajuuk]

The first AXE router was supposed to be ASUS GT-AXE11000 with its release date mentioned as "December 2020".

30^th December is gone (down here in NZ), however, no AXE routers available so far.

ASUS got 24 hours to keep their promise.

[Sajuuk]

Still no AXE routers available on the market.

Amazon and Newegg are already running "pre-order" lots:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RWBPBBR/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_wk.7FbVJM11Y6

https://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9B-33-320-478

 

Rumour has it that Amazon promises to start shipping pre-ordered routers early Feb 2020

[Alex Atkin UK]

I upgraded to the AX210 and my speed is back to where it used to be on the AX200 when I first fitted it.  Maybe a coincidence, but its promising.

 

Now to wait for the WiFi 6e Access Points to come out.

[Sajuuk]

I have got a new AX200 and ordered one AX210.

For some reason I cannot acheive decent Wifi speed in linux (Ubuntu) on either 9560 or AX200 cards.

 

[lowrck]

i know this thread is probably necro'd but for the people asking why cnvi and cnvi2 are not intercompatible its because the physical card's only part of what a standard card would be. the actual logic for the card is all embedded in the cpu so you need the cpu to have wifi 6 logic to function with the wifi 6 front end on that card. whereas the ax200 and ax210 are both fully featured pcie devices containing all the hardware needed for wifi functionality onboard.