8700k Cooling Issues

[ThreePeenSoup]

I had this computer built with an 8700k and it came with all cores synced @ 4.4ghz, 1.25 volts.  It's being cooled by a Thermaltake Floe Riing 240mm AIO.  I've replaced the thermal paste with no result. The airflow in the case wasn't great so I took the glass side panel off which helped dropped the idle temps down but under load it still hits 80c or so, idles around 36-40.  Ambient room temp is 27c/82f.  I use hwinfo64 and coretemp to monitor temps.  Not sure what other information is relevant.

80c seems kind of high considering the speed and voltage.  I just can't figure out what it is.  I really want to just hit 4.7 - 4.8 if I can keep it low.  Just afraid I'll up the speed and hit the mid 90s.

[Norwegiantweaker]

9 minutes ago, TheNoid said:

I had this computer built with an 8700k and it came with all cores synced @ 4.4ghz, 1.25 volts.  It's being cooled by a Thermaltake Floe Riing 240mm AIO.  I've replaced the thermal paste with no result. The airflow in the case wasn't great so I took the glass side panel off which helped dropped the idle temps down but under load it still hits 80c or so, idles around 36-40.  Ambient room temp is 27c/82f.  I use hwinfo64 and coretemp to monitor temps.  Not sure what other information is relevant.

80c seems kind of high considering the speed and voltage.  I just can't figure out what it is.  I really want to just hit 4.7 - 4.8 if I can keep it low.  Just afraid I'll up the speed and hit the mid 90s.

27C ambient ?!? 80c is not bad with that ambient 

[KEIN NEIN]

Well the 8700K is known to run hot. Have you doublechecked if you mounted the AIO properly?

[Brooksie359]

36 minutes ago, Norwegiantweaker said:

27C ambient ?!? 80c is not bad with that ambient 

Not really. My apartment is at 85f and my CPU gets about that hot maybe less and my clocks and voltage are significantly higher. Something is definitely odd here. 

[Mick Naughty]

What is full load? What’s being done? 80c isn’t bad for an aio. Asking a lot for a 240. 

[Fr4nt1s3k]

It's OK temps. Not ideal, but nothing to worry about.
I run my i7-9700K at 4.6 GHz in AC: Odyssey (the most unoptimized CPU demanding game) at 68-75 °C at 22 °C ambient temperature.
Now in summer I think I'd have about 75-85 degrees peak temperatures under full load.

 

Are you looking at all core temperatures? The program might be showing only the hottest core while other are 5-10 degrees cooler etc...
 

Also, how fast do your fans spin?
I had to buy extra Noctua fan and replace CM Hyper 212 Evo cooler's fan as it was getting loud at 900+ RPM.

[ThreePeenSoup]

20 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

What is full load? What’s being done? 80c isn’t bad for an aio. Asking a lot for a 240. 

With realbench it's higher. 84c and that's with just the benchmark.  Otherwise, 'full load' for me means gaming.  Currently borderlands 2 it hits 80c with everything on ultra except view distance is on high.  View distance is CPU intensive.  I know this is not the program/game to be testing shit like this.  I'm afraid to run a stress test using realbench or aida.  Everything is mounted properly.  

[ThreePeenSoup]

10 minutes ago, Fr4nt1s3k said:

It's OK temps. Not ideal, but nothing to worry about.
I run my i7-9700K at 4.6 GHz in AC: Odyssey (the most unoptimized CPU demanding game) at 68-75 °C at 22 °C ambient temperature.
Now in summer I think I'd have about 75-85 degrees peak temperatures under full load.

 

Are you looking at all core temperatures? The program might be showing only the hottest core while other are 5-10 degrees cooler etc...
 

Also, how fast do your fans spin?
I had to buy extra Noctua fan and replace CM Hyper 212 Evo cooler's fan as it was getting loud at 900+ RPM.

The core temps vary obviously, but I look at the core max in hwinfo64 and it hits 78 - 80.  My AIO fans sit around 1600 rpm, they can't go any faster.  The AIO pump is rated 3000 rpm but sits at like 2880 according to the bios.  The only other things I can think of are the fact that the top of the case is only vented on the side and the fact that the pump is working against gravity.  Unless the fans on the AIO are mounted incorrectly.  There's dust up in the radiator so I'm assuming air is being pulled from the case through it which seems correct.

 

I have a maximus x formula which has a QLED on the front that displays the CPU Temp.  It always fluctuates by a huge amount and it's always different when compared to hwinfo and core temp.  Could these sensors be conflicting somehow?  I never run hwinfo and coretemp at the same time.

[Mick Naughty]

Not sure what else you could be looking for then. Seems like that’s all you can get out of it. Aside from maximizing airflow and getting better fans. 

 

Or just let it be. Or even a delid. 

[ThreePeenSoup]

1 minute ago, Mick Naughty said:

Not sure what else you could be looking for then. Seems like that’s all you can get out of it. Aside from maximizing airflow and getting better fans. 

 

Or just let it be. Or even a delid. 

Yea that's what I figured

[Fr4nt1s3k]

Wow, maybe you should try a normal air cooler. Something is not right with the water cooling you have.

EDIT:
How big is your PC case?
Maybe there's little room to exchange heat... my PC has a fan at the back and one fan at the front + holes at the top.
The CPU's air cooler is in between and quickly gets fresh air from the front and hot air is sent to the rear fan...

 

[ThreePeenSoup]

2 hours ago, Fr4nt1s3k said:

Wow, maybe you should try a normal air cooler. Something is not right with the water cooling you have.

EDIT:
How big is your PC case?
Maybe there's little room to exchange heat... my PC has a fan at the back and one fan at the front + holes at the top.
The CPU's air cooler is in between and quickly gets fresh air from the front and hot air is sent to the rear fan...

 

Yea I don't know. So far I all I did was add another ~2c by reapplying thermal paste.  Super stoked about that.  The case is a mid tower but the side panel is off because with it on there is seemingly no air flow even though all the fans are pointed in the right directions.  The 1080 FTW2 runs fairly cool regardless of load.  I haven't seen it go over 67c, but all that air was being dumped into the case and not removed.  Honestly this is my fault for having this built instead of doing it myself.  Should've bought the full size case, 360mm AIO, more case fans, etc.  Even if the AIO is borked I'd have to send the comp to California and wait like two weeks or try and take this whole thing apart myself just to get this old one out.  I really don't see why I gained heat with a good spread of less thermal paste. I guess I can't see for sure but I did it 10 times yesterday and twice this morning.  Every time I lift the AIO from the cpu the spread and amount is fine. I'm just afraid the more I do this the more of this shit builds up along the sides of the cpu and insulates it further. 

I just read a post of some guy with the same cpu/aio combo.  He's running 4.9ghz 21c idle 71c gaming load.  According to him.  That's a huge discrepancy between our two experiences from what I'm seeing, even if he's exaggerating.

[Fr4nt1s3k]

It seems like a lot of heat gets trapped in your case. Which ones do you have?

Anyway, 80 °C peak temperatures are not too bad.

[ThreePeenSoup]

3 hours ago, Fr4nt1s3k said:

It seems like a lot of heat gets trapped in your case. Which ones do you have?

Anyway, 80 °C peak temperatures are not too bad.

Versa C23 TG https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Tempered-Certified-Computer-CA-1H7-00M1WN-00/dp/B073SGFN9G
 

I put 3 Raidmax 1200rpm fans in.  2 in the front sucking air in, 1 in the back blowing air out, but they aren't enough to push out the heat from the video card when I'm gaming so that heat gets sucked up by the AIO fans and pushed through the radiator which was heating up the CPU, that was the initial problem so I took the glass side panel off and that dropped the temps down, no joke, ~10c on the CPU/GPU combined.  The AIO placement isn't ideal, and even with the side panel off I still think it's getting some hot air. 

However, yesterday I was looking at my bios, ASUS board, and I noticed under the monitor section that the cpu fan rpms were in the low 2200s and that also I don't have a CPU fan.  The AIO is obviously plugged into the CPU fan header and this was the reading from the pump.  I went back to Qfan control and turned the CPU Fan setting to full speed which turned the pump up to its full ~3000rpm which actually quieted my system down significantly but didn't cool it down at first.  I had reapplied thermal paste yesterday morning and read that some of them need 'curing time' and also read that that is BS.  I read that some need a few heat cycles or something, 40 - 50 hours of on/off to reach their full potential?  Anyways, I turned my comp off last night for the first time in a while with the new thermal paste and so far the temps are lower.  I ran a realbench benchmark and it only hit 82c whereas yesterday it was hitting 85c.  Right now it is idling at 37c.

Guess I'll just have to see.  Thanks for all your replies.
 

[mobilewall]

the 8000 series uses cheap tim not solder under the IHS, if you delid, scrape the black adhesive off and use liquid metal you can gain around 15c.

1.25v does seem like a lot to me for only 4.4ghz all cores. I would try to undervolt and see if you can maintain stability before messing around with a delid first.

Another thing is that case has a closed front design, The only air inlet I see is that small gap on the bottom of the front panel. Try removing the front panel, that should drop all your temps considerably.

 

 

[ThreePeenSoup]

4 hours ago, mobilewall said:

the 8000 series uses cheap tim not solder under the IHS, if you delid, scrape the black adhesive off and use liquid metal you can gain around 15c.

1.25v does seem like a lot to me for only 4.4ghz all cores. I would try to undervolt and see if you can maintain stability before messing around with a delid first.

Another thing is that case has a closed front design, The only air inlet I see is that small gap on the bottom of the front panel. Try removing the front panel, that should drop all your temps considerably.

 

 

There is a foot long by inch wide gap on the side of the front panel that lets air in.These raidmax fans are not powerful enough to push the hot air out with the panel on and the AIO fans still get some of the exhaust from the gpu when it's off anyways, but I keep it off %100 of the time.  I was thinking about just flipping the AIO fans over so they're intake to see if it would help, but I have a bulky maximus x formula, so there is one screw I can't get to.  I'd have to take the whole thing apart and I just do not have the time for that.

Lesson learned I guess.

[MaratM]

Delid the cpu!!! That will bring it down by 15 - 25 C. A delid tool from aliexpress or ebay costs around $5 and liquid metal is another $10-15. Takes around 20 minutes the first time and 5 minutes if you know that you doing. I delided 2 8700k and both times it was around -20c under load

[WoodenMarker]

On 7/17/2019 at 2:04 PM, TheNoid said:

 I'm just afraid the more I do this the more of this shit builds up along the sides of the cpu and insulates it further. 
I just read a post of some guy with the same cpu/aio combo.  He's running 4.9ghz 21c idle 71c gaming load.  According to him.  That's a huge discrepancy between our two experiences from what I'm seeing, even if he's exaggerating.

The paste helps cool the socket area rather than insulate it; it's much better than just air.

Idle temps will generally be at least 10c higher than ambient. If your ambient temps are really 27c, it's no surprise the temps are so different. 

Better case fans can help but not as much as delidding if your goal is a higher oc. 

[ThreePeenSoup]

On 7/19/2019 at 3:34 PM, WoodenMarker said:

The paste helps cool the socket area rather than insulate it; it's much better than just air.

Idle temps will generally be at least 10c higher than ambient. If your ambient temps are really 27c, it's no surprise the temps are so different. 

Better case fans can help but not as much as delidding if your goal is a higher oc. 

Should I have to delid just to reach the very basic OC 4.7ghz all core speed?  I just set up two desk fans to blow air directly at the back of the case like two more big intake fans and dropped my AC to 77f/25c and the temps still do not drop.  The AIO fans are getting fresh air and no change.  My 1080 ftw2 drops 4c but my CPU stays idle 34-40c 74-83c under load at 4.4ghz.  I'm honestly stumped.  Only other thing I can think of is that the top of the case is only vented on the side so the air doesn't really escape fully, maybe?  There's just no real solid information about this AIO paired with this CPU running at this speed in this orientation (top mounted) and what the little information that is out there are just good reviews.  Thermaltake forums are USELESS 

 

It may just be my AC can't keep up with this 8700k.  If I turn off my PC the room temp drops from 81f to 79f.

 

[hello_there_123]

I don't believe that the 8700k can only hit 4.4ghz under 1.25V. 

[WoodenMarker]

2 hours ago, TheNoid said:

Should I have to delid just to reach the very basic OC 4.7ghz all core speed?

dropped my AC to 77f/25c

My 1080 ftw2 drops 4c but my CPU stays idle 34-40c 74-83c under load at 4.4ghz.  

It may just be my AC can't keep up with this 8700k.  If I turn off my PC the room temp drops from 81f to 79f.

Only other thing I can think of is that the top of the case is only vented on the side so the air doesn't really escape fully, maybe? 

You'll probably have to delid if you really want to raise core voltage. 

Your ambient temps only dropped 2c and you can expect the same near one-to-one drop from your system temps. 

The problem is the high ambient temps and the case having a very restrictive front. The cooler being mounted at the top in particular probably doesn't make a big difference. 

The cooler might also not be fully tightened or evenly seated. You mentioned replacing the paste but it wouldn't hurt to try reseating and making sure to tighten in an X-pattern as opposed to one side before the other. 

1 hour ago, hello_there_123 said:

I don't believe that the 8700k can only hit 4.4ghz under 1.25V. 

Yeah, it seems unlikely although it may be due to less stability at higher temps.

 

@TheNoid

Have you tried raising the clock speed? Temps should stay about the same as long as you don't raise the core voltage. 

[ThreePeenSoup]

2 hours ago, WoodenMarker said:

You'll probably have to delid if you really want to raise core voltage. 

Your ambient temps only dropped 2c and you can expect the same near one-to-one drop from your system temps. 

The problem is the high ambient temps and the case having a very restrictive front. The cooler being mounted at the top in particular probably doesn't make a big difference. 

The cooler might also not be fully tightened or evenly seated. You mentioned replacing the paste but it wouldn't hurt to try reseating and making sure to tighten in an X-pattern as opposed to one side before the other. 

Yeah, it seems unlikely although it may be due to less stability at higher temps.

 

@TheNoid

Have you tried raising the clock speed? Temps should stay about the same as long as you don't raise the core voltage. 

The pump is seated properly and always tightened in an X pattern, just like putting on a tire.  I wanted to raise the multiplier to x47 but every setting is still set to auto in the bios except the voltage is manually set to 1.25 and I manually set dram speed/timing to 3000mhz 16-16-16-38 (not an OC, advertised) Cache frequency is 4400mhz.  If it's safe to up it to x47 and leave everything else to see what happens I'll try it.  4400mhz cache is still within acceptable range, right?  Every overclocking vid i've watched for the 8700k and this board the tech always goes through a few different settings to make sure everything stay stable and I have no problem going through that stuff on my own but it never hurts to get some reassurances.  I really appreciate you guys being so patient.

 

Edit:  This Nuvoton sensor chip reports drastically lower temps in hwinfo64 than the per core temps and core max temp reported in the same program.

Core max: 79c
Nuvoton CPU Max: 65c

[Cypher-Jackson]

I would bet that thing will drop to 60C MAX after a delid.

Maybe that 80C is just under synthetic load, though. its probably fine under real loads

[ThreePeenSoup]

Well, so far I've done all the necessary tweaking and having running at

 

4.7ghz 1.28v

LLC set to 5 ASUS board

All restraints removed 4095, 255.50, other settings.

Pet my cat

 

Just not sure if I should set an AVX offset, but so far under synthetic load, like Jackson said, the temps went up in cinebench and realbench but they're negligible.  I also have some MX-4 arriving tomorrow for some thermal and reseating.  This has been a great learning experience, gonna test with prime95 now and hope it is stable.

 

Thanks all again.