Laws on pirating outdated software?

[lexidobe]

I do not have any intention or desire to do so, but what are the laws on pirating outdated OSes and software that is no longer sold? In my opinion there is no reason for it to be illegal if it is no longer for sale because downloading it wouldn't exactly be cutting into its creator's profits if they do not sell it anyways, but laws rarely make that much sense. Thank you in advance!

[Mira Yurizaki]

As long as the copyright exists for the work, it's illegal to pirate it. I believe copyrights are good for at least 50 years by default in most countries.

 

However whether or not the original author cares is another story. Laws only exist (at least in many countries) for someone to have an excuse to charge you with a crime.

[lexidobe]

Just now, Mira Yurizaki said:

As long as the copyright exists for the work, it's illegal to pirate it. I believe copyrights are good for at least 50 years by default in most countries.

 

However whether or not the original author cares is another story. Laws only exist (at least in many countries) for someone to have an excuse to charge you with a crime.

Thank you. So if for some reason I wanted to download, say, Windows 3.1, I'd be breaking the law even though I couldn't buy it anywhere? I am pretty sure no one would care, but would it technically be illegal to download it free of charge?

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 minutes ago, lexidobe said:

Thank you. So if for some reason I wanted to download, say, Windows 3.1, I'd be breaking the law even though I couldn't buy it anywhere? I am pretty sure no one would care, but would it technically be illegal to download it free of charge?

More or less yes. Though to nitpick, it has to also come from an unauthorized source. If Microsoft was giving it away or allowed someone else to and you get it from them, obviously "downloading it for free" doesn't constitute piracy.

[Mira Yurizaki]

4 minutes ago, lexidobe said:

Thank you. So if for some reason I wanted to download, say, Windows 3.1, I'd be breaking the law even though I couldn't buy it anywhere? I am pretty sure no one would care, but would it technically be illegal to download it free of charge?

Since I have a feeling you probably read the reply before I can get a chance to edit it sufficiently.

 

The "unauthorized source" thing got someone in hot water for selling OEM recovery discs on eBay even though the guy was charging for just the materials and shipping (i.e., zero profit) and you could argue that there's no charge to obtaining an OEM disc. He wasn't authorized to make copies and give them away.

[lexidobe]

1 minute ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

More or less yes. Though to nitpick, it has to also come from an unauthorized source. If Microsoft was giving it away or allowed someone else to and you get it from them, obviously "downloading it for free" doesn't constitute piracy.

Thanks. So what would be the "legitimate" way to obtain a copy of an outdated software for, say, a very old PC that needs an OS?

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, lexidobe said:

Thanks. So what would be the "legitimate" way to obtain a copy of an outdated software for, say, a very old PC that needs an OS?

Probably someone selling new-old stock.

[lexidobe]

9 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Probably someone selling new-old stock.

Thanks. But would some random guy on eBay that is selling the CD be an "authorized source"? 

[goto10]

if for example you have a windows 95 license key but you need the installation disk only you might find people selling it

 

but as mentioned before there are laws on some countries agaibst selling such disks, even if it is just the installer

 

perhaps ask if someone you know has such disk, also on some pc recycle centers you could find what you need

 

at the moment, for example, is basically free to download and install DOS 4.0, but is not legal to download and install for example windows 3.1

 

i think it is abandonware or free to use after 25 or 30 years, not 50

[Mira Yurizaki]

Just now, lexidobe said:

Thanks. But would some random guy on eBay that is selling the CD be an "authorized source"? 

If the copy was produced by one, it's fine. 

[lexidobe]

1 minute ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

If the copy was produced by one, it's fine. 

That makes sense, thank you

[LogicalDrm]

6 hours ago, goto10 said:

i think it is abandonware or free to use after 25 or 30 years, not 50

Abandonware doesn't have actual date when it steps in. Which is reason why older Nintendo games are still under copyright while MS games, among others, are abandonware. The term just means that copyright holder has dropped any interest for the software. By either not enforcing copyright laws or even giving it out for free.

 

The 50-70 since publication still stands. Meaning that something released in the 80s will come free in next 10-15 years.

[goto10]

well, now that you mention copyrights, iirc, is not 50 years, isnt 75 or 100 years?

 

like some disney movies that went free to download, some old mickey mouse movies made  in1928 iirc

 

in general yes, abandonware is not a legal term, it is what you say, if the owner does something, otherwise it is left abandoned so people just use it

[xreaperx22]

not sure about the laws but i wouldnt recommend pirating anything,most of those programs are iffy whether it has a virus or not,its a chance you take and could lead to broken windows.

[Tristerin]

Me: What exactly are you worried about in purchasing an item.  It is not illegal for you to purchase anything legal for you to obtain and have in your possession.  If a seller is selling something THEY aren't allowed to sell, does not mean YOU aren't allowed to buy an item that isn't illegal to obtain, have, keep.  Use may be different, but then again at that point I don't care either.  Its mine, its up to them to prove its not.  And there isn't anything you are required to give in that regard.

[lexidobe]

3 minutes ago, xreaperx22 said:

not sure about the laws but i wouldnt recommend pirating anything,most of those programs are iffy whether it has a virus or not,its a chance you take and could lead to broken windows.

Great advice. I have heard of problems with pirated Windows, but I haven't personally had problems since I don't download Windows (or anything else) from sketchy places. Out of curiosity, I looked on The Pirate Bay for Windows 7 ISO files years ago even though I had no intentions of (and didn't) download anything, and I found that the listed size of the ISO file actually varied by several hundred megabytes for the same version of the same OS depending on who uploaded it. 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't the same version of the same OS be identical in file size? I think it probably varies because some of them may have been modified, and some of them have different malware embedded that is of different sizes. 

[Tristerin]

Just now, lexidobe said:

Great advice. I have heard of problems with pirated Windows, but I haven't personally had problems since I don't download Windows (or anything else) from sketchy places. Out of curiosity, I looked on The Pirate Bay for Windows 7 ISO files years ago even though I had no intentions of (and didn't) download anything, and I found that the listed size of the ISO file actually varied by several hundred megabytes for the same version of the same OS depending on who uploaded it. 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't the same version of the same OS be identical in file size? I think it probably varies because some of them may have been modified, and some of them have different malware embedded that is of different sizes. 

Key generators inbedded in the file so you don't have to download the key genner separately.  There is potential for malicious code.  Ive had copies like that before (I sail the Seven Seas). 

[lexidobe]

Just now, Tristerin said:

Key generators inbedded in the file so you don't have to download the key genner separately.  There is potential for malicious code.  Ive had copies like that before (I sail the Seven Seas). 

I would say that there's more than a potential for malicious code, more like almost a guarantee. LOL

[Tristerin]

19 minutes ago, lexidobe said:

I would say that there's more than a potential for malicious code, more like almost a guarantee. LOL

Says those who have never (as you have mentioned) sailed in the Pirate Bay.  When I was unaware of what to look for, who to "trust", what hacker/cracker groups to follow I downloaded a lot of gay pr0n, just saying. 

 

You are only espousing that because that's what you have been told, btw.  But I am more determined to not pay the Microsoft Tax than others so have done my research, and have my ISO's so Im good to go   I do not distribute, and I deny the EULA on every install.  Did you know Windows 10, for example, will proceed on download and use even if you say I DO NOT ACCEPT on the EULA prompt upon install?

[lexidobe]

1 minute ago, Tristerin said:

Says those who have never (as you have mentioned) sailed in the Pirate Bay.  When I was unaware of what to look for, who to "trust", what hacker/cracker groups to follow I downloaded a lot of gay pr0n, just saying. 

 

You are only espousing that because that's what you have been told, btw.  But I am more determined to not pay the Microsoft Tax than others so have done my research, and have my ISO's so Im good to go   I do not distribute, and I deny the EULA on every install.  Did you know Windows 10, for example, will proceed on download and use even if you say I DO NOT ACCEPT on the EULA prompt upon install?

I imagine you CAN get software without malware on The Pirate Bay, but as you said, finding out who you can trust often results in a lot of problems that could be easily avoided by simply downloading Windows 7 from the Microsoft site, or another reputable site. Also, I don't know that we are allowed to discuss software piracy here.

 

Oh and I had no idea that Windows 10 will still install if you decline the EULA, but I will have to try that if I ever install that POS operating system again. Am I correct in presuming that Microsoft can not (legally) steal your data and spy on you if you decline the EULA since you didn't agree to it?

[Tristerin]

1 hour ago, lexidobe said:

I imagine you CAN get software without malware on The Pirate Bay, but as you said, finding out who you can trust often results in a lot of problems that could be easily avoided by simply downloading Windows 7 from the Microsoft site, or another reputable site. Also, I don't know that we are allowed to discuss software piracy here.

 

Oh and I had no idea that Windows 10 will still install if you decline the EULA, but I will have to try that if I ever install that POS operating system again. Am I correct in presuming that Microsoft can not (legally) steal your data and spy on you if you decline the EULA since you didn't agree to it?

We can talk about Piracy here.  Ive talked with Linus himself on this same topic with my same stance on this very forum.  He only asks that we keep it civil because people think they know what they don't actually know.  The rule is that I cant tell you where/when/how etc.

 

You are not correct on the data.  You still are made aware, even if you don't agree.  Saying you don't agree and continuing to use a service is up to you.  The only thing that will happen is that in 30 days you will get the Watermark.  You can just disable that through the root changes.  Or you can use a key you can purchase legally (however illegal for the SELLER to sell) over selling sites like Ebay etc for a couple bucks.  Or use an illegal Key Genner. 

 

[lexidobe]

15 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

We can talk about Piracy here.  Ive talked with Linus himself on this same topic with my same stance on this very forum.  He only asks that we keep it civil because people think they know what they don't actually know.  The rule is that I cant tell you where/when/how etc.

 

You are not correct on the data.  You still are made aware, even if you don't agree.  Saying you don't agree and continuing to use a service is up to you.  The only thing that will happen is that in 30 days you will get the Watermark.  You can just disable that through the root changes.  Or you can use a key you can purchase legally (however illegal for the SELLER to sell) over selling sites like Ebay etc for a couple bucks.  Or use an illegal Key Genner. 

 

Cool, thank you for clarifying. I just didn't want either one of us to get in trouble for talking about something that may have been prohibited. 

 

As for installing Windows 10 without a product key, what do you mean that you get a watermark after 30 days? You mean that you get the thing in the bottom right corner of the desktop that says Windows is not genuine even if you activate it?

[Tristerin]

23 minutes ago, lexidobe said:

Cool, thank you for clarifying. I just didn't want either one of us to get in trouble for talking about something that may have been prohibited. 

 

As for installing Windows 10 without a product key, what do you mean that you get a watermark after 30 days? You mean that you get the thing in the bottom right corner of the desktop that says Windows is not genuine even if you activate it?

Correct, and you can either get a key (off Ebay for $3-5 bucks, its one time use, the same Keys OEM - HP, Dell, etc - use) and while it isn't "lawful" depending on the country for them to have them in a sense of the way they got them in their possession, it is NOT illegal for them to sell them.  Or Ebay wouldn't have them.

 

Or you can use a Key Genner

 

Or you can disable the watermark (and a host of other Windows 10 spytools, and CPU eating up software bloated in Win 10) through a simple root change

 

Or you can leave the watermark and it will only not allow you to personalize the desktop (after the 30 day thing you are stuck with that background...oh noes)

[Tristerin]

Hell you can disable the watermark by just doing a SHIFT+Restart lol..if you do that each time you reset the PC no watermark for that session lol.

[homeap5]

On 7/16/2019 at 2:21 AM, lexidobe said:

I do not have any intention or desire to do so, but what are the laws on pirating outdated OSes and software that is no longer sold? In my opinion there is no reason for it to be illegal if it is no longer for sale because downloading it wouldn't exactly be cutting into its creator's profits if they do not sell it anyways, but laws rarely make that much sense. Thank you in advance!

I want to back to original question for a moment.

 

I thought about that and I think there may be some reason for keeping rights to software that is no longer sell. For example - Microsoft don't want to sell Windows 98 anymore, because it's old, outdated operating system and people should update their software (and hardware). And that is right. So what about people who wants to use very old computers for fun? Well, still Microsoft can't allow using their software for free or release it as free version - imagine how many people will try to use it only because it's free. I was thinking about advertisements like "old computer prepared for old games with original operating system - vintage - everything works perfec like in 1998 including internet - all drivers installed!". And it starts to be good business for people who wants to sell old crap. And number of infected zombie computers will grow. Ok, win98 may be not a good example, but XP or Vista? Microsoft no longer supports these OSes but they still can be useful (and potentially dangerous because lack of updates).