Maximum Performance and Minimum Heat: Underclocking and -Volting?

[imcaspar]

Hey fellow forum member,

I am right now planning a new pc build.

One of the main things that are important to me is to have an option to reduce the heat output in the summer. When it's near 40C (100F) outside,

my mobile AC can't handle the additional load from the PC and it's getting way too hot. 

 

My main plan to fight this is to invest in better parts and underclock, maybe undervolt, them,

so that I get performance as good as with cheaper parts while using less power. 

 

I am currently looking at a 9900k and RTX 2080, which should go down in price after the super and zen 2 launches.

 

Can you spot an error in my thinking?

Please give me some feedback.

 

Best Regards,

Caspar

 

PS: What would I look for in a motherboard for it to be good for undervolting? Currently having an eye on the EVGA Z390 ones.

[GoldenLag]

15 minutes ago, caspar! said:

 

I am currently looking at a 9900k

Why on earth are ypu grabbing the oven known as the 9900k over waiting for the r7 3700x?

 

Your goal is minimal heat output no?

[imcaspar]

2 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Why on earth are ypu grabbing the pven known as the 9900k over waiting for the r7 3700x?

 

Your goal is minimal heat output no?

You are probably going to hate me for saying I don't like Team Red that much? Had a lot of Instability and Driver Issues in the past. 

 

Also most productivity tasks - excluding rendering of course - benefit from intel cpus, like CAD work for example.

[GoldenLag]

15 minutes ago, caspar! said:

 Can you spot an error in my thinking?

Yes. You are grabbing a very potent heat generating CPU instead of grabbing a low heat generating CPU. 

 

You should be looking at Zen 3rd gen 8 core. Something like the r7 3700x.

 

Get a good board and done. 

 

2080 sounds like a good idea. 

[imcaspar]

1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

Yes. You are grabbing a very potent heat generating CPU instead of grabbing a low heat generating CPU. 

 

You should be looking at Zen 3rd gen 8 core. Something like the r7 3700x.

 

Get a good board and done. 

 

2080 sounds like a good idea. 

Ok ok, I'll wait for the launch anyways and do my final decision then. Any tips when it comes to gpu and board manufacturers? evga seems like a good option

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, caspar! said:

Also most productivity tasks - excluding rendering of course - benefit from intel cpus, like CAD work for example.

Do these workloads use quicksync? I cant remember any workloads that use quicksync in CAD. In other words. The 3700x will do the same job with significantly less heat output (if numbers we are given are to be believed)

 

2 minutes ago, caspar! said:

You are probably going to hate me for saying I don't like Team Red that much? Had a lot of Instability and Driver Issues in the past. 

Yeah AMD CPUs of the past were pretty crap. But it has to be said that it changed 2 years ago with the release of Zen.

 

Both companies have had their bad share of drivers when it comes to GPUs. 

 

7nm TSMC AMD CPUs (yes a lot of capitals) will be the way to go to keep heat output to a minimum. 14nm +++ of the 9900k doesnt do it any favors. 

[GoldenLag]

2 minutes ago, caspar! said:

Any tips when it comes to gpu and board manufacturers? evga seems like a good option

EVGA is the best GPU manufacturer for Nvidia cards. Not in terms of card quality per say. But the warranty they provide.

 

When it comes to mobos. Gigabyte or MSI are turning out to be great choices for X570. 

[fluxdeity]

7 minutes ago, caspar! said:

You are probably going to hate me for saying I don't like Team Red that much? Had a lot of Instability and Driver Issues in the past. 

 

Also most productivity tasks - excluding rendering of course - benefit from intel cpus, like CAD work for example.

Can't really beat a 65w Ryzen chip when it comes to heat. Intel's the new AMD basically back when AMD had Bulldozer and Piledriver. Most Intel chips run super hot due to shitty paste.

[imcaspar]

4 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

7nm TSMC AMD CPUs (yes a lot of capitals) will be the way to go to keep heat output to a minimum. 14nm +++ of the 9900k doesnt do it any favors. 

You are true, that's definitely an option. Also, when it comes to stability, even Oak Ridge uses Epyc now, and I know much has changed since Ryzen. Just can't

let go of Intel without being sad

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, fluxdeity said:

Most Intel chips run super hot due to shitty paste.

They stopped using paste on 9th gen. They are still really hot due to the fact they are hot chips

[imcaspar]

Just now, GoldenLag said:

They stopped using paste on 9th gen. They are still really hot due to the fact they are hot chips

There is probably a reason nobody feels the need to delid AMD Ryzen, if I think about it

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, caspar! said:

let go of Intel without being sad 

The best value CPU from intel was the 2600k.

 

A CPU from 2011. Why is it the best value CPU? Because it keeps up with a 7700k when overclocked. 

 

They have been stagnant for 8 years. And the lack of 10nm  just makes them make very hot CPUs in 2019 just to keep up with AMD.

 

Keep in mind the 9900k is very much 2700x like when they both run according to spec. 

[imcaspar]

1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

The best value CPU from intel was the 2600k.

 

A CPU from 2011. Why is it the best value CPU? Because it keeps up with a 7700k when overclocked. 

 

They have been stagnant for 8 years. And the lack of 10nm  just makes them make very hot CPUs in 2019 just to keep up with AMD.

 

Keep in mind the 9900k is very much 2700x like when they both run according to spec. 

My mom had an old i5 2500. Surprisingly it's still up to most modern tasks, gonna use it for a htpc

[GoldenLag]

Just now, caspar! said:

There is probably a reason nobody feels the need to delid AMD Ryzen, if I think about it

Well its that they use solder between the IHS and die. It makes it very hard to delidd. Not that you need.

 

Intel started with solder again on 9th gen after ending it with 3rd gen. Sadly their implementation isnt great. The solder is fine in terms of application (a little thick). They just made the die twice as thick as the 8700k. Meaning heat needs to travel through a lot of badly conducting silicon before hitting the IHS. 

 

While its better than paste, its still not great. 

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, caspar! said:

My mom had an old i5 2500. Surprisingly it's still up to most modern tasks, gonna use it for a htpc

2500 was good up untill a year or two ago when zen launched. Games started using more than 4 threads and the i5 is not all that great today. 

 

For regular tasks its fine, though its decoder might not be great for HTPC use. Id look at greating a small storage Server or similar with it. 

[GoldenLag]

In the end. When you are trying to get a low heatoutput system. You want CPU with the best node possible with performance to back it up.

 

And in half a month that will be the Zen 2 CPUs. 

[imcaspar]

Just now, GoldenLag said:

In the end. When you are trying to get a low heatoutput system. You want CPU with the best node possible with performance to back it up.

 

And in half a month that will be the Zen 2 CPUs. 

Only then I can't get a nice EVGA or Supermicro Mobo

[GoldenLag]

Just now, caspar! said:

Only then I can't get a nice EVGA or Supermicro Mobo

Dont think you have seen what MSI, ASrock and Gigabyte has put out.

 

Gigabyte has put out a ITX board that puts the best Z390 boards to shame. (The VRM is better than some x299 and x399 boards, and its ITX)

 

There are a lot of good X570 boards with Tons of IO. ASrock even put out an ITX board with thunderbolt 3 on the rear IO

[Firewrath9]

24 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Yeah AMD CPUs of the past were pretty crap. But it has to be said that it changed 2 years ago with the release of Zen.

sniff sniff 1999-2008 R.I.P. AMD. I loved my good old athlon XP.

2 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Gigabyte has put out a ITX board that puts the best Z390 boards to shame. (The VRM is better than some x299 and x399 boards, and its ITX)

The X570-I is actually imo not extremely good in terms of VRM. 6 70A powerphases squished next to each other with minimal cooling is much worse than say, 8 50A powerstages spread out with a decent heatsink. oh and don't get me started on X299, X299M Taichi has a better VRM Solution due to better cooling. The only board i think has a worse VRM is the x299-itx, but thats b/c thats on a daughterboard.

5 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

There are a lot of good X570 boards with Tons of IO. ASrock even put out an ITX board with thunderbolt 3 on the rear IO

ASRock had TB3 from Z370

 

oh and if you want to see a list of X570 boards w/ some specs, I have a list in my sig. comments and suggestions welcome (shameless plug)

[GoldenLag]

9 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

The X570-I is actually imo not extremely good in terms of VRM. 6 70A powerphases squished next to each other with minimal cooling is much worse than say, 8 50A powerstages spread out with a decent heatsink

And you can kill a 2700x with current throughput before needing a heatsink on them., You could get away with killing a theoretical 16 core on it with active airflow.  Those are 70a smart powerstages.

 

You seen the buildzoid teardown, no? It puts high end board to shame for what it is. Doesnt mean there arent better boards than it. 

 

9 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

ASRock had TB3 from Z370

Oh neat. But its interesting considering its the first board with TB3 on an AMD plattform that i am aware of. Also X570 has a lot of lanes to share when it comes to stuff like thunderbolt. 

 

9 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

oh and if you want to see a list of X570 boards w/ some specs, I have a list in my sig. comments and suggestions welcome (shameless plug)

Mobotier group is allready putting together VRM lists on the mobos. Allready gotten a lot of specs from Buildzoid. 

 

(Edit: for now i think we actually have the most complete elist we are aware of)

[GoldenLag]

7 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

8 50A powerstages spread out with a decent heatsink

Just saying. You dont want to be running 50 Amp powrstages at 50 Amps. While they can on a testbed. You dont want to be doing it on any mobos with stuff on it. 

 

Same with the 70a powerstages. Spec sheets top out at 60a as anything above that is impractical and mostly theoretical specs. 

[Firewrath9]

Just now, GoldenLag said:

And you can kill a 2700x with current throughput before needing a heatsink on them., You could get away with killing a theoretical 16 core on it with active airflow.  Those are 70a smart powerstages.

 

Mobotier group is allready putting together VRM lists on the mobos. Allready gotten a lot of specs from Buildzoid. 

I hold the mobo tier list in contempt,

as mobo A is not necessarily better than Mobo B, even if mobo a has a 64 phase VRM with god tier. for example, let me bring up the list.

They have B360 boards in the 

Tier B Mainstream gaming (i5oc, i7oc)

tier

evidently, you can OC on B360, and they must've gotten the secret sauce from intel.

Oh and they're missing a lot of really important and extreme overclocking boards.

X299 OC Formula? prob one of the most used LN2 boards?

They put the X470 Gaming Plus, below the Gaming Pro? BZ has repeatedly said the X470 Gaming Plus is much better than most 130$ boards including the X470 Gaming Pro (which buildzoid thinks is shit), and he did thermal testing on it as well.

wait why is there X470 Designare in, thats not a thing

and He put the X470 Gaming 5/Ultra as the same tier as the C7H and taichi????

BZ says those boards are shit and rightfully so. Also wtf is C6E above C7H? it has a worse vrm, and worse everything else, and its fatter to boot

Aorus elite and B450 GPC on same tier, I like Gigabyte but not that much

 

He said the 2700X would be killed by the 70A power stages on the X570 exteme IIRC, which has more than 2x the phases and they are much more spread out.

I've seen literally all of AHOC's videos...

 

[Firewrath9]

10 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Just saying. You dont want to be running 50 Amp powrstages at 50 Amps. While they can on a testbed. You dont want to be doing it on any mobos with stuff on it. 

 

Same with the 70a powerstages. Spec sheets top out at 60a as anything above that is impractical and mostly theoretical specs. 

yeah no shit. if your running 400A through a board, thats at least 500-600 watts, you'll need LN2 and a incredibly lucky piece of silicon (aka no modern AMD Chip, except mabye bulldozer). Also, if you have that you prob have a really good LN2 board

most people even with custom water and stuff like that will pull at most 250 watts from mainstream boards.

 

[GoldenLag]

6 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

He said the 2700X would be killed by the 70A power stages on the X570 exteme IIRC, which has more than 2x the phases and they are much more spread out.

And he said the same regarding the 6 phase on the itx board iirc.

 

8 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

evidently, you can OC on B360, and they must've gotten the secret sauce from intel.

It only takes into account VRMs. In ither words. If it could OC, then uut would perform similarly to what that tier entails. 

 

9 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

They put the X470 Gaming Plus, below the Gaming Pro? BZ has repeatedly said the X470 Gaming Plus is much better than most 130$ boards including the X470 Gaming Pro (which buildzoid thinks is shit), and he did thermal testing on it as well.

wait why is there X470 Designare in, thats not a thing

and He put the X470 Gaming 5/Ultra as the same tier as the C7H and taichi????

BZ says those boards are shit and rightfully so. Also wtf is C6E above C7H? it has a worse vrm, and worse everything else, and its fatter to boot

Aorus elite and B450 GPC on same tier, I like Gigabyte but not that much

I mean if youve got the VRM info and all that jazz. I cak get you into the VRM team if you are interested in helping. 

[Firewrath9]

5 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

And he said the same regarding the 6 phase on the itx board iirc.

 

It only takes into account VRMs. In ither words. If it could OC, then uut would perform similarly to what that tier entails. 

 

I mean if youve got the VRM info and all that jazz. I cak get you into the VRM team if you are interested in helping. 

Let me rewatch the video and get back to you on that. (edit: I stand corrected, He did say it was better than majority of X370/Z370/X470/Z390

 

still don't really understand the point of having that B360 board there, it isn't going to help anybody, as VRM's don't really matter on locked boards, I'll just agree to disagree.

 

yeah sure

 

oh yeah another issue I have with the mobo tier list, is that it never actually specifies the VRMs, and doesn't include other stuff.

oh and BZ has a X570 godlike vrm analysis up now