Spot my Bottle Neck

[That Mason Guy]

Hi All,

 

Below you can see my rig Specs, I just wanted further opinion as to how much of a bottle neck my CPU is

 

CPU: Ryzen 1400 Non-OC (Because my PSU can't handle it and my GPU without crashing, was up to 4.0GHz from 3.2GHz)

GPU: Asus Strix RX580 OC 

PSU: Cougar 600w ATX

RAM: 16Gb X2 Ripjaws 3000Mhz (Only runs at 2133MHz Ram for some reason, although CPU-Z says its only running at 1064.5MHz)

Mobo: Asus Prime B350-Plus

Boot Drive: Samsung 970 Pro 512Gb M.2 Drive

Storage: 1 Tb WD Blue

Case: Corsair Carbide SPEC-ALPHA Black and Grey

 

There's a few issue like my Ram, Mobo and CPU. i'm just asking for your opinion on what to upgrade first when I get around to it (For Gaming obviously) I run all this on a MSI Optix MPG27CQ a 1440p 144Hz Monitor

[LukeSavenije]

your motherboard and psu, because at least one of them limit the oc

what cougar model is it?

[That Mason Guy]

2 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

-snip-

Sorry that was the Cougar VTX 600w PSU

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

2 minutes ago, That Mason Guy said:

RAM: 16Gb X2 Ripjaws 3000Mhz (Only runs at 2133MHz Ram for some reason, although CPU-Z says its only running at 1064.5MHz)

Mobo: Asus Prime B350-Plus

you need to fix these issue first.

updated bios yet? (Version 4602 on 4/4/19)

how did you tune ram? you should just turn DOCP on & pick rated ram speed.

 

as for PSU, 600w is more than enough for cpu overclock

[Spotty]

2 minutes ago, That Mason Guy said:

CPU: Ryzen 1400 Non-OC (Because my PSU can't handle it and my GPU without crashing, was up to 4.0GHz from 3.2GHz)

Bullshit. If it was crashing it was because you didn't increase the voltage to the CPU and it wasn't stable - not because your PSU "can't handle it".
 

5 minutes ago, That Mason Guy said:

RAM: 16Gb X2 Ripjaws 3000Mhz (Only runs at 2133MHz Ram for some reason, although CPU-Z says its only running at 1064.5MHz)

DDR stands for Double Data Rate. Keyword: Double. So if CPU-Z is showing 1066.5MHz then that's 2333MHz.
You need to set your memory in the BIOS to run at 3000MHz. Either manually set it or use XMP/DOCP to set it.

[LukeSavenije]

hm... ram runs at 2333 (cpu is and should report half the speed)

 

and that psu isn't the best, but shouldn't be the biggest problem in this.

 

I'm thinking motherboard powertrottle personally

[Constantin]

No real "bottleneck" here!!!

This word should e erased from  all form of computer discussion.

It is the stupidest terminology imported the last few years.......

[That Mason Guy]

1 minute ago, Spotty said:

Bullshit. If it was crashing it was because you didn't increase the voltage to the CPU and it wasn't stable - not because your PSU "can't handle it".
 

DDR stands for Double Data Rate. Keyword: Double. So if CPU-Z is showing 1066.5MHz then that's 2333MHz.
You need to set your memory in the BIOS to run at 3000MHz. Either manually set it or use XMP/DOCP to set it.

Okay buddy had this PC for over a year if you thought that I haven't tried changing the settings in the Bios to run the ram properly, ya might have a wee problem. it won't even boot, at anything above 2333MHz and that because that is what it sets for itself on Auto Settings. Secondly CPU is at a stable OC at 3.8GHz because the temps were very sporadic at 4.0 so I dialled it back, completely stable until I upgraded my GPU to which I encountered Crashing Issues, I have consulted multiple professionals on that issue and they all agree the only issue it could be would be a power delivery problem, to which I removed my OC and voilà no more crashing. seems like a failed OC but was completely Stable, and certainly not a heat issue either as it would crash at 34C.

[That Mason Guy]

2 hours ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

-snip-

I mean try and take shots all you like, but I was just asking what is the most lacking piece of hardware I have, so I can focus on it for upgrade next, I know the CPU needs an upgrade. just generally asking for an opinion

 

2 hours ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

-snip-

In the end, its a terminology used commonly enough to where you all knew exactly what I was asking

 

Wow this community can be toxic sometimes, I asked what should I upgrade next and if you spot any Components that I should focus on, and was called stupid and had the pissed pulled out of me for using a word.

[LukeSavenije]

i mean, i didn't do anything

 

thanks, I'm going to help people that do want help

 

i mean, you attacked @Spotty for no aperient reason

[That Mason Guy]

1 minute ago, LukeSavenije said:

i mean, i didn't do anything

 

thanks, I'm going to help people that do want help

 

i mean, you attacked @Spotty for no aperient reason

I didn't attack Spotty, I stated what has been happening with my PC and he said Bullshit, its not, it is what has been happening, regardless of what he believes, I just stated that yes it is what has been happening.

 

and I never said it was you, but Cheers.

[Quadriplegic]

9 minutes ago, That Mason Guy said:

In the end, its a terminology used commonly enough to where you all knew exactly what I was asking, Welcome to the English Language. Are you Dumb.

The problem is with the meaning of word. Do whatever you want, you won't prevent bottlenecking. Upgrading everything all the time is just waste of the money. 

Instead of calling other people stupid, you should look at the mirror.


Regarding the RAM, it is bit weird. You said it uses auto settings, did you try to input the clocks, timings and voltage by hand? Are you using the latest BIOS?

[That Mason Guy]

1 minute ago, Quadriplegic said:

The problem is with the meaning of word. Do whatever you want, you won't prevent bottlenecking. Upgrading everything all the time is just waste of the money. 

Instead of calling other people stupid, you should look at the mirror

No the problem is, I asked a question on the Forum and instead of people actually reply with an answer, just attacking my use of the word, which benefits nobody.

 

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying everybody has to answer all of my questions, I'm just saying don't respond if you have nothing useful to add to the conversation.

[LukeSavenije]

12 minutes ago, That Mason Guy said:

I didn't attack Spotty, I stated what has been happening with my PC and he said Bullshit, its not, it is what has been happening, regardless of what he believes, I just stated that yes it is what has been happening.

 

and I never said it was you, but Cheers.

except for much ripple or something your psu isn't a problem

 

stability needs voltage, not less, not more

 

prime has crap vrms, probably overheat on a good oc

 

things like that

[Spotty]

5 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

i mean, you attacked @Spotty for no aperient reason 

Nah, not really. Takes a lot to offend me. Don't forget I come from a country where we call our friends "Cunt" as a term of endearment.

 

19 minutes ago, That Mason Guy said:

Okay buddy had this PC for over a year if you thought that I haven't tried changing the settings in the Bios to run the ram properly, ya might have a wee problem. it won't even boot, at anything above 2333MHz and that because that is what it sets for itself on Auto Settings. Secondly CPU is at a stable OC at 3.8GHz because the temps were very sporadic at 4.0 so I dialled it back, completely stable until I upgraded my GPU to which I encountered Crashing Issues, I have consulted multiple professionals on that issue and they all agree the only issue it could be would be a power delivery problem, to which I removed my OC and voilà no more crashing. seems like a failed OC but was completely Stable, and certainly not a heat issue either as it would crash at 34C.

What was your old graphics card?
First Gen Ryzen can be pretty picky when it comes to RAM & RAM speed. As already mentioned, try updating your BIOS to the latest version - Since release quite a few motherboards have received BIOS updates to improve memory support. You may find that what didn't work on an old BIOS revision does work on a new one. Also try setting it manually to 3000MHz instead of using auto tools. If 3000MHz still doesn't work, try 2666MHz.
If you can run at 3.8GHz without issue then I would try and set that OC back again - it should help somewhat with performance in games. Just make sure you run a stress test like Prime95 to ensure that the OC is stable. If it's not stable, try adjusting the voltage.

While your PSU isn't the greatest, it's still not your PSU causing your issues. If you go out and spend money on a new 750W+ PSU thinking that you need higher wattage, then you're just going to be wasting your money. Your Asus Strix RX580 is only going to be consuming around 200-240W under heavy load. So total system consumption should be under 350W.
"power delivery problem" can mean more than just a PSU. It could also mean the motherboard which delivers the power to the CPU and the VRMs used. Low quality motherboards aren't going to be able to handle the same voltage and OC that higher quality boards will. While not the best motherboard out there, realistically as long as you're not doing anything crazy your Prime B350 Plus should be able to handle a 4 core Ryzen 1400.


And most importantly, which no-one has bothered to ask yet...
What games are you playing? What resolution? What performance (FPS) are you seeing?

[.Apex.]

59 minutes ago, That Mason Guy said:

Okay buddy had this PC for over a year if you thought that I haven't tried changing the settings in the Bios to run the ram properly, ya might have a wee problem. it won't even boot, at anything above 2333MHz and that because that is what it sets for itself on Auto Settings. Secondly CPU is at a stable OC at 3.8GHz because the temps were very sporadic at 4.0 so I dialled it back, completely stable until I upgraded my GPU to which I encountered Crashing Issues, I have consulted multiple professionals on that issue and they all agree the only issue it could be would be a power delivery problem, to which I removed my OC and voilà no more crashing. seems like a failed OC but was completely Stable, and certainly not a heat issue either as it would crash at 34C. 

If it crashes at 34C then you weren't putting any load on that CPU meaning it wasn't taking much power, so the problem is not the PSU (unless you have a crazy AIO on it), but anyway.. since it's first gen Ryzen, it's very picky with memory, so try enabling XMP/D.O.C.P and then manually lowering the frequency from 3000Mhz down to 2933Mhz, but I don't see a bottleneck here, it's a pretty good system.

[That Mason Guy]

1 hour ago, Spotty said:

-snip-

Awesome Thanks for all that, pretty much what I was looking for, also I'm guessing you're from Australia? same here.

 

So, my old Graphic card was a GTX 1050, not the greatest but got me by. I have updated my Bios, but not for a while, as my Mobo does not like updating, it will often crash or just not update, sometimes I can push an update through but its difficult, that is will using both the updater and using a USB with the Update installed and going through BIOS also just trying to Update direct from BIOS.

 

I have tried setting my Ram to 3000MHz it will cycle about 4 times then post saying the it could not hold the changes, I have both manually and Auto had the Voltage scale with the Ram but it doesn't seem to work at all, I then did exactly as you said and dialled it back to 2666MHz but it still would not hold, regardless of what I did with the voltage slider. XMP Profiles adjusting the Latency, Adjusting the Clocks and Voltage, none of it seems to work, and after about a year of trying I've just drawn the conclusion its the Motherboard and or CPU that will not allow it to reach its specified settings.

 

My PSU was also confusing to me, because even though I am well aware that it is not using enough power for it to be maxing it out, therefore it should never be an issue, it show s symptoms as if that is exactly what it is, and looking around other forums apparently, it is a very common issue. I have seen many posts with people having exactly te same issue as me but once they replaced their PSU it was fixed. so for now I am holding off on OCing my CPU, even though I want to because, why would you not.

 

Finally Games, Currently the game I play most is The Forest at 1440p, and I see an average of about 50FPS which is disappointing, because I have a 144Hz Monitor, Therefore upgrading is the next step. I also play Ark Survival Evolved but at Max Setting 1440P I see only about 20FPS. Finally Minecraft, which is why I was looking at a CPU upgrade, unsure of FPS for that one.

 

1 hour ago, _Syn_ said:

If it crashes at 34C then you weren't putting any load on that CPU meaning it wasn't taking much power, so the problem is not the PSU (unless you have a crazy AIO on it), but anyway.. since it's first gen Ryzen, it's very picky with memory, so try enabling XMP/D.O.C.P and then manually lowering the frequency from 3000Mhz down to 2933Mhz, but I don't see a bottleneck here, it's a pretty good system. 

Cheers

 

Been trying to get the Ramm issue solved since the day I built the system, I've watched like every tutorial on YouTube, scoured multiple Forums and found that basically 1st Gen Ryzen sucks with Memory and that Board isn't the best for it either. So for my next upgrade I was looking at replacing my CPU and Mobo, but I just wanna make sure that there wasn't something I should focus on first.

[Spotty]

Which slots do you have the memory installed to? Are they spaced apart or are they next to each other?

 

4 minutes ago, That Mason Guy said:

Finally Games, Currently the game I play most is The Forest at 1440p, and I see an average of about 50FPS which is disappointing, because I have a 144Hz Monitor,

1440p 144hz is hard to drive. I have an i7 6700K & GTX1080 Ti with a 1440p 144hz monitor and I struggle to hit 144FPS in most games. RX 580 is more for 1080p. Getting 50FPS at 1440p is probably to be expected with that GPU.

 

Quick google for RX 580 benchmarks and it seems you're looking at 45-75 FPS at 1440p with the RX 580.

 

Which model is your card? Is it the RX 580 4GB or RX 580 8GB? If it's the 4GB then you're also going to run in to VRAM issues at 1440p.

 

6 minutes ago, That Mason Guy said:

I also play Ark Survival Evolved but at Max Setting 1440P I see only about 20FPS.

Haven't played it, but from what I have seen/heard ARK can be a pretty messy game, lots of glitches and bugs, not a lot of optimisation, doesn't run the smoothest... 20FPS is pretty low though, but at 1440p with max settings?... Try going with medium settings at 1440p, or high 1080p and see how you perform there. You need to accept that you're not going to run 1440p 144hz Ultra settings with an RX580.

Lastly, the best way to figure out what is bottlenecking your system when you play games is to run MSI Afterburner with the on screen display showing while you play and see what your GPU and CPU usage are in game. You'll be able to tell what is limiting your system.

[That Mason Guy]

1 minute ago, Spotty said:

Which slots do you have the memory installed to? Are they spaced apart or are they next to each other?

 

Which model is your card? Is it the RX 580 4GB or RX 580 8GB? If it's the 4GB then you're also going to run in to VRAM issues at 1440p.

 

Haven't played it, but from what I have seen/heard ARK can be a pretty messy game, lots of glitches and bugs, not a lot of optimisation, doesn't run the smoothest... 20FPS is pretty low though, but at 1440p with max settings?... Try going with medium settings at 1440p, or high 1080p and see how you perform there. You need to accept that you're not going to run 1440p 144hz Ultra settings with an RX580.

Lastly, the best way to figure out what is bottlenecking your system when you play games is to run MSI Afterburner with the on screen display showing while you play and see what your GPU and CPU usage are in game. You'll be able to tell what is limiting your system.

Cheers for all that, The Memory is spaced apart obviously running in dual channel.

 

The Card Is the 8GB Version, and yeah I know the FPS is to be expected, just didn't want to dump a heap of money into a GPU should I not be able to utilise all that power, hence the CPU and Mobo Upgrade.

 

Ark is shit when it comes to Optimisation it does not run as well as it should. but yes I dial it back to max settings 1080p as that pushes it up to about 40FPS which is "Playable" depending on who you ask.

 

and thanks for the tip about MSI Afterburner.

[Spotty]

At least RX 580 8GB version is going to handle 1440p a bit better [than the 4GB version would].

My recommendation would be to run competitive games at 1080p to give you the FPS boost, and run single player/"pretty" games at 1440p and take the FPS hit and accept 50-60FPS.

If you're going for 144hz, then a CPU upgrade could help. I'd hang on to what you have now and see what Zen 2 Ryzen 3000 Series brings in a few months time.
For graphics cards if you want proper 1440p 144hz experience then stuff like Vega, Radeon VII, GTX 1080Ti, RTX 2080, RTX 2080Ti. But obviously those cards aren't cheap, so it's going to cost you.

[That Mason Guy]

1 minute ago, Spotty said:

At least RX 580 8GB version is going to handle 1440p a bit better [than the 4GB version would].

My recommendation would be to run competitive games at 1080p to give you the FPS boost, and run single player/"pretty" games at 1440p and take the FPS hit and accept 50-60FPS.

If you're going for 144hz, then a CPU upgrade could help. I'd hang on to what you have now and see what Zen 2 Ryzen 3000 Series brings in a few months time.
For graphics cards if you want proper 1440p 144hz experience then stuff like Vega, Radeon VII, GTX 1080Ti, RTX 2080, RTX 2080Ti. But obviously those cards aren't cheap, so it's going to cost you.

Yeah, Cheers for the help.