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Zen 2 Speculation

Redrooster
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Okay, I was wondering about something regarding zen 2. so I am aware that there's very little information known about zen 2 and this is all educated guesses. Will single-core performance increase, or are we just looking at twice as many cores at around the same power? I guess a good way to compare it from the 1000 series to the 2000 series (I know it's not a perfect comparison because zen to zen+ and zen+ to zen 2). The real question that I'm trying to ask is if this new zen 2 will only really benefit the workstation users, will gamers see any real benefit from waiting until summer? (I only use my computer for gaming + general computer use and I was thinking about picking up an R5 2600 for my 2060)

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Judging off of what was shown at CES IPC has improves a fair bit so yeah it would be worth it to wait. Also games are starting to scale across more cores as the norm is now 6+ cores

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted

Its going to be a Performance bump for sure for both workloads, but not by that much. 

 

On the lesser chips like the 3600,3700(x) if they get around 4.4-4.7 ghz for sure thats a nice bonus, but for the 10-16 core variants? No there is no tangible benefit for every day gamers. For content creators yes there is a nice benefit, as long as apps optimize for it

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we dont know. Early synthetic benchmarks are impressive, but then so is 1st gen Ryzen. Just not equal to gaming performance.

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We don't know for sure but it's almost certainly going to see some increase over Zen+ as where getting IPC, IF Latency, and frequency bumps. All of which should work in AMD's favour. The IF latency in particular is quite a big issue with en1 and Zen+ CPU's. Intel's ring bus has huge edges there. But Zen2 is unquestionably bringing enormous uptick in things there for numerous reasons. How much that will close the gap is unknown however.

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1 hour ago, Shimejii said:

Its going to be a Performance bump for sure for both workloads, but not by that much. 

Based on what was said so far on Rome, I'd suspect a low single digit % increase on average IPC for non-AVX workloads. For AVX workloads, the increase could be much bigger, as much as a factor of 2 in best case.

1 hour ago, 2SidedPolygon said:

CES was extremely exciting for single-core performance imo, AMD's 8-core matching Intel's 8-core is a big deal.

We don't know anything about clocks so it was of limited info, other than improved performance per watt at that specific unspecified condition.

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1 hour ago, 2SidedPolygon said:

CES was extremely exciting for single-core performance imo, AMD's 8-core matching Intel's 8-core is a big deal.

Especially with the lower speed RAM. Which either means that Zen 2 is not as bound by memory latency and speed or that it is faster.

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1 minute ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Especially with the lower speed RAM. Which either means that Zen 2 is not as bound by memory latency and speed or that it is faster.

 

Memory latency was only an issue on Zen1 and Zen+ because of how IF speed was tied to memory speed. We've known since before christmas that IF speed was increasing and that it would no longer be tied to memory.

 

Really CES whilst it was nice to see and still positive overall isn't the big deal people are making it out to be. look up people doing 2700x LN2 OC'ig with R15 benchmark. At similar clocks Zen+ in workloads that fully utilize all cores runs virtually as well as on intel at the same frequency. Given they had a slight uptick in frequency and IPC it would be surprising if they weren't very close to a 9900k. The fact they matched it on such apparently low clocks is a bit of an eyebrow raiser, but thats pretty much it, and it's an eyebrow raiser, not an OMGL33THAKZ0R'S.

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I just revisited that CES demo. Based on the score they gave, and past testing I did on other similar Intel CPUs, I estimate the 9900k used in the demo was running effectively an average between 4.4 to 4.6 GHz. The all core turbo when not power constrained is supposed to be 4.7. Cinebench R15 is not very ram sensitive so it is almost entirely about the cores.

 

In an unconstrained state, Zen+ has up to 4% IPC advantage in Cinebench R15 multi-thread over Skylake. I haven't proved that scales up to 16 threads and other limits may narrow that gap. Zen 2 could be slightly lower clock to match performance. This could also factor into the lower power consumption, on top of the process node advantage.

 

Did they specify if the displayed power was for CPU only, or for system?

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37 minutes ago, porina said:

I just revisited that CES demo. Based on the score they gave, and past testing I did on other similar Intel CPUs, I estimate the 9900k used in the demo was running effectively an average between 4.4 to 4.6 GHz. The all core turbo when not power constrained is supposed to be 4.7. Cinebench R15 is not very ram sensitive so it is almost entirely about the cores.

 

In an unconstrained state, Zen+ has up to 4% IPC advantage in Cinebench R15 multi-thread over Skylake. I haven't proved that scales up to 16 threads and other limits may narrow that gap. Zen 2 could be slightly lower clock to match performance. This could also factor into the lower power consumption, on top of the process node advantage.

 

Did they specify if the displayed power was for CPU only, or for system?

 

Listen to lisa Su. it's system power. Note that Adored.tv has the same setup on AMD side with a 2700x instead of the Zen2 part and he got higher frame rates in Forza than AMD did, i suspect both systems had some kind of monitoring software running that are probably knocking a little off the scores.

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8 hours ago, CarlBar said:

Listen to lisa Su. it's system power. 

I couldn't find the video again so was basing it off re-reports from various web sites.

 

Running something like hwinfo64 costs a small amount, like 1% or so (haven't actually calculated it). 

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11 hours ago, 2SidedPolygon said:

CES was extremely exciting for single-core performance imo, AMD's 8-core matching Intel's 8-core is a big deal.

And also to think it’s rumoured that 8 core is the 5 series from the ryzen line up 

 

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I personally want to see a 16 core with 9900k SC performance however that may be wishful thinking.

 

I believe honestly they should be able to match the 9900k SC with the 8 core version, atleast if they don't i'd be a little dissapointed but that's from self hype more than evidential cases.

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