Need a DAC / AMP (combo or separated) for my new beyerdynamic headphone

[SwimmingG]

Hey there,

 

I'm about to get me a beyerdynamic headphone, I'm currently deciding between the DT 880 and DT 990 Manufaktur.

 

I was planning to get the 600 Ohm version so I need (and want because my onboard sound is horrible and I only had bad experiences with internal soundscards) a external DAC and amp, all-in-one or separated.

 

First, can someone who knows both the 880 and 990 tell me which one he liked more? I know everyone has a different taste but I could only test the 990 and I really liked it, I don't know if I should stick with it or give the 880 a try now.

They are both the same price in the Manufaktur version on beyerdynamic's website (199€).

 

Second, what DAC / AMP can you recommend for that? I already looked at a lot of devices but most of them do not come into question. I looked at:

 

- Schiit FULLA 2 

Looks good, unfortunately not available in the Schiit Europe Store or on Amazon and I don't want to pay $60 for shipping (I'm from germany) if I'm not 100% sure about a device 

 

- Schiit Magni 3 with Schiit Modi 2

Saw a lot of people praising this combo, only the Modi is available to buy though, Magni 3 is out of stock and only the DAC won't get me far also not that cheap for 125€ each (w/o shipping)

 

- FiiO E10K

Would be the best and easiest for me since it's available on Amazon, also fairly cheap. But comparing the power the beyerdynamics 600 Ohm need this device probably cant power them enough?? I'm really not a loud listener but I dont want the quality to suffer because of not enough power (if thats possible)

 

- Audioengine D1 24 Bit Premium USB DAC

Couldn't find out much about it, has anyone expierence with it? Available on Amazon so would be easy to get and send back etc.

 

- ODAC + Objective2 Combo

Honestly a bit too expensive imo, also hard to get for a good price in Germany, only heard good things about this combo though

 

- Monoprice Desktop amp

Saw someone recommending it in the forums, only heard good things about it too. Sadly not available on Amazon atm

 

As you can see from the products I've looked at, I don't want a super expensive device for the best experience ever, I mean these are $200 headphones.

I want a decent combo that has enough power to drive the 600 Ohm beyerdynamics and provides a good, unadulterated sound (I dont' want tube amps or smth like that).

I would say my Budget for the DAC + AMP is about 200€. Again, I am not someone who listens to FLAC files all day long, I will use the headphones primarily for PC gaming and listening to music (high-quality but not FLAC-quality).

 

The combo doesn't have to be portable or anything, it will only be used at home. I also don't have a space problem.

 

If someone could recommend me something that is available in Europe (Germany) and inside my budget range that would be great. If you made experiences with the listed devices feel free to share them!

[Max_Settings]

Best of these is the Magni 3 Modi 2 by far. Ohms doesn't mean headphones are hard to drive, but 600ohm headphones can be demanding just because of the low output of Amps at the rating, the Magni 3 can actually put out a lot of power at 600ohm.

[SwimmingG]

34 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

Best of these is the Magni 3 Modi 2 by far. Ohms doesn't mean headphones are hard to drive, but 600ohm headphones can be demanding just because of the low output of Amps at the rating, the Magni 3 can actually put out a lot of power at 600ohm.

Well no doubt it's a good combo, I would love to get it actually event though it would surpass my budget. But as I said, the Magni 3 isn't available and won't be anytime soon according to the Schiit Europe Store...  Also I can't wait weeks for it to be available, thats why I need a different solution as fast as possible.

 

I heard that the beyerdynamics in general are not hard to drive, but I guess something like the Fiio E10K still isn't powerful enough for them?

What alternatives do I have for the Magni 3 that has a similar high output power so I can drive 600 Ohm headphones well?

[Votivee]

5 minutes ago, SwimmingG said:

Well no doubt it's a good combo, I would love to get it actually event though it would surpass my budget. But as I said, the Magni 3 isn't available and won't be anytime soon according to the Schiit Europe Store...  Also I can't wait weeks for it to be available, thats why I need a different solution as fast as possible.

Could you get them off of Ebay possibly?

[SwimmingG]

19 minutes ago, Votivee said:

Could you get them off of Ebay possibly?

I could but the shipping is also expensive (couldn't find a German offer, only 2 international ones) and I can't send them back easily if something isn't right, I don't like them etc.

 

Does anyone know how well the Fiio E10K does with a 600 Ohm beyerdynamic? Will it reduce quality?

[xtroria]

IMO you should just go ahead and get the 250 ohm DT880 instead of the 600 ohm. They sound exactly the same. Fiio E10K should be more than enough for the 250 ohm headphone.

[SwimmingG]

6 hours ago, xtroria said:

IMO you should just go ahead and get the 250 ohm DT880 instead of the 600 ohm. They sound exactly the same. Fiio E10K should be more than enough for the 250 ohm headphone.

Did you hear both of them or how can you tell? When I asked in another forum which version to get everyone said 600 Ohm is the best. I mean it's not a problem for me to get the 250 ohm, I just want to get the most out of it.

Also, do you prefer the 880 over the 990 and why?

[xtroria]

6 hours ago, SwimmingG said:

Did you hear both of them or how can you tell? When I asked in another forum which version to get everyone said 600 Ohm is the best. I mean it's not a problem for me to get the 250 ohm, I just want to get the most out of it.

Also, do you prefer the 880 over the 990 and why?

DT880 in general is just a more balanced sounding headphone. Works for almost all genre. DT990 is has boosted bass and treble while the vocal goes back a step.

 

You can easily tell whether 250 and 600 ohm is really that different by looking at the frequency response chart. Most people who buy the beyer headphones also typically get the 250 ohm version

[SwimmingG]

4 hours ago, xtroria said:

DT880 in general is just a more balanced sounding headphone. Works for almost all genre. DT990 is has boosted bass and treble while the vocal goes back a step.

 

You can easily tell whether 250 and 600 ohm is really that different by looking at the frequency response chart. Most people who buy the beyer headphones also typically get the 250 ohm version

Which one is better for hearing steps in-game, shouldn't that be the one with more bass?

 

Well I guess I'm getting the DT 880 250 Ohm with the FiiO E10K then.

[NinjaQuick]

I love my Da2. There are better Dacs, yes, but this is fully portable (powered by the phone), nice and small and light and is DSD ready if that's your thing. Low enough cost, just loses the battery others might have, what you gain is tiny size, low cost and ESS SABRE.

[SwimmingG]

8 hours ago, NinjaQuick said:

I love my Da2. There are better Dacs, yes, but this is fully portable (powered by the phone), nice and small and light and is DSD ready if that's your thing. Low enough cost, just loses the battery others might have, what you gain is tiny size, low cost and ESS SABRE.

Are you talking about the SABAJ Da2?

I mean it surely isn't bad (ESS SABRE is nice) but it's not really what I'm looking for, I'm looking for a device to use only at home.

I don't know much about DSD and it's far from a priority of me.

 

Also I doubt a portable DAC that can be powered by a phone will have enough output to decently power a 600 ohm headphone, couldn't find any technical details on the amazon page though.

 

Thanks for the advice but it's not what I'm looking for.

[NinjaQuick]

So, going by impedance is silly, there's sensitivity and all sorts of other things, too. Believe it or not, the power needed to drive any headphones that are not very power hungry electrostatic is very low. The Da2 is more than enough for your needs, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.

 

You can feel free to spend more, your prerogative, after all.

[SwimmingG]

1 hour ago, NinjaQuick said:

So, going by impedance is silly, there's sensitivity and all sorts of other things, too. Believe it or not, the power needed to drive any headphones that are not very power hungry electrostatic is very low. The Da2 is more than enough for your needs, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.

 

You can feel free to spend more, your prerogative, after all.

I know that's silly, that's why I was looking for numbers. I couldn't find any because I just did a quick search but now I found them.

It has a output power of ~36mW at 32 Ohm. I know I said I'm not a loud listener but I doubt that will get a 600 Ohm headphone loud enough, even if it's a really easy to drive one. According to the digizoid calculator my max volume would be between moderate and fairly loud then, which may be enough but I don't want to take this risk.

 

Getting the FiiO E10K will only cost me $5 more and I will at least have a guaranteed output power of 200mW at 32 Ohm. I heard a lot of people saying that even that is not loud enough for them.

 

My only question that remains is, will the quality of the headphones somehow suffer from a low power source? Sorry if that's a silly question.

Also, which one is better for hearing and locating in-game steps, DT 880 or 990?

[NinjaQuick]

The answer may suck to you, but the best for hearing positional sound in games is actually AKGs K702/7XX/712. As for amp needs, the reality is 600Ohm makes less of a difference than the actual sensitivity and responsiveness of the units. A 32Ohm very low sensitivity headphone will move less air than a very high sensitivity 600Ohm unit. 

 

I've used the 880s, and I do think they are good headphones, but honestly? Don't spend lots of money on headphones with cables that can't be swapped or replaced. AS in, get something with detachable cables.

[SwimmingG]

52 minutes ago, NinjaQuick said:

The answer may suck to you, but the best for hearing positional sound in games is actually AKGs K702/7XX/712. As for amp needs, the reality is 600Ohm makes less of a difference than the actual sensitivity and responsiveness of the units. A 32Ohm very low sensitivity headphone will move less air than a very high sensitivity 600Ohm unit. 

 

I've used the 880s, and I do think they are good headphones, but honestly? Don't spend lots of money on headphones with cables that can't be swapped or replaced. AS in, get something with detachable cables.

Can you tell me why they are better for hearing positional sound, did you test them or do some technical details suggest that?

 

I actually thought about getting the AKG K712 PRO in the past but a friend told me it was difficult to get the ModMic attached to it, so I forgot about them. Also I don't really like the headband, but I'll reconsider them.

You're surely right about the cables, however I gotta say I never had problems with cables in the past so this wasnt a priority for me when looking for new headphones. I don't understand why beyerdynamic doesn't have detachable cables in the low DT series (770 etc.). If I want detachable cables with beyer I gotta move up to e.g. DT 1770 and that would be +$400  

 

Still, DT 880 or 990 for hearing positional sound in games?

[NinjaQuick]

They have a response curve with peaks that are coincidental with what the brain uses to determine direction on familiar sounds. This makes any HRTF effects on that range very very effective.

[SwimmingG]

Okay, let's say we have:

 

Sennheiser HD600 / 650

Beyerdynamic DT 880

AKG K712 PRO

 

Which one would you recommend for gaming and a bit of entertain stuff (music, movies etc.)?

 

Btw, the Schiit Fulla 2 is back in stock for my country, should I get one independently of the headphones I'm getting or what do you think about it?

[NinjaQuick]

AKG 7XX off Massdrop if that is an option. If not, the K712. For gaming, the others simply can't compete, it is a different league. For music and everything else? 600 is neutral, 650 has some bass. Pick your poison All at the same price, the K712 is the best gaming option of the list, no questions asked. The Sennheiser are the best all-round and the Beyerdynamics are, well, excellent, but not as excellent as the HD6XX, and far and away worse than the K7XX in games. The AKG have a peak at the mid-high, and that's the one issue, and can make or break them, depending on how much you experience it.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, SwimmingG said:

Okay, let's say we have:

 

Sennheiser HD600 / 650

Beyerdynamic DT 880

AKG K712 PRO

 

Which one would you recommend for gaming and a bit of entertain stuff (music, movies etc.)?

 

Btw, the Schiit Fulla 2 is back in stock for my country, should I get one independently of the headphones I'm getting or what do you think about it?

Don't have any experience with the Fulla, but I have the K712s and HD650s. I enjoy the K712s sound stage immensely with movies and music over the HD650s. They do a lot better in the low end.

[xtroria]

2 hours ago, SwimmingG said:

Okay, let's say we have:

 

Sennheiser HD600 / 650

Beyerdynamic DT 880

AKG K712 PRO

 

Which one would you recommend for gaming and a bit of entertain stuff (music, movies etc.)?

 

Btw, the Schiit Fulla 2 is back in stock for my country, should I get one independently of the headphones I'm getting or what do you think about it?

I'd look at the reviews online about them because the three of them are just on the same class but have different sound signatures. Some people prefer one over the other.

 

I like DT880 the most out of the three but i'll take any of them happily to be used as daily driver. I recommend you just grabbing any of them if you're getting a significantly lower price compared to the others

[SwimmingG]

I doubt I can get massdrop items in Germany, can I? I think that's a US thing, so the AKG 7XX probably isn't an option.

 

Because I do game a lot my first priority should be that it's good for positional sounds, so that would be the AKG according to NinjaQuick.

That doesn't mean the headphones perform worse in different parts like listening to music or similiar right?

Sounds like the AKG is a allrounder with a special strength in positional sound, which would be perfect for me.

I don't want to buy different headphones for gaming and listening to music / watching movies (yet), that's why I'm looking for a allrounder.

 

There are (kindof) big price differences between these 4 headphones, I'm just gonna list the prices I can get them for:

 

Sennheiser HD600 - ~320€

Sennheiser HD650 - ~330€

Beyerdynamic DT 880 - ~175€

AKG K712 PRO - ~215€

 

I'm not looking for the cheapest, I'm looking for the best for my needs so I won't mind taking a more expensive one.

 

To the Fulla 2, I won't have problems using it with any of these headphones will I?

Fulla 2 vs FiiO E10K, which one makes more sense?

 

[Guest]

On 07/02/2018 at 10:39 PM, Max_Settings said:

Best of these is the Magni 3 Modi 2 by far. Ohms doesn't mean headphones are hard to drive, but 600ohm headphones can be demanding just because of the low output of Amps at the rating, the Magni 3 can actually put out a lot of power at 600ohm.

I went the Magni/Modi Schiit stack.  No buyer's remorse. My 2 cents...

[SwimmingG]

 

5 hours ago, PrometheanCat2 said:

I went the Magni/Modi Schiit stack.  No buyer's remorse. My 2 cents...

Can't get these in Germany, always sold out.

 

Btw, the Fulla 2 was sold out after 5 hours  

[xtroria]

On 2/12/2018 at 2:42 PM, SwimmingG said:

I doubt I can get massdrop items in Germany, can I? I think that's a US thing, so the AKG 7XX probably isn't an option.

 

Because I do game a lot my first priority should be that it's good for positional sounds, so that would be the AKG according to NinjaQuick.

That doesn't mean the headphones perform worse in different parts like listening to music or similiar right?

Sounds like the AKG is a allrounder with a special strength in positional sound, which would be perfect for me.

I don't want to buy different headphones for gaming and listening to music / watching movies (yet), that's why I'm looking for a allrounder.

 

There are (kindof) big price differences between these 4 headphones, I'm just gonna list the prices I can get them for:

 

Sennheiser HD600 - ~320€

Sennheiser HD650 - ~330€

Beyerdynamic DT 880 - ~175€

AKG K712 PRO - ~215€

 

I'm not looking for the cheapest, I'm looking for the best for my needs so I won't mind taking a more expensive one.

 

To the Fulla 2, I won't have problems using it with any of these headphones will I?

Fulla 2 vs FiiO E10K, which one makes more sense?

 

I'd just grab the DT880 (make sure it's the 250 ohm tho) since it's the cheapest one and you can save the money to get an amp/dac. It doesnt sound inferior or superior compared to the other 3

[SwimmingG]

11 hours ago, xtroria said:

I'd just grab the DT880 (make sure it's the 250 ohm tho) since it's the cheapest one and you can save the money to get an amp/dac. It doesnt sound inferior or superior compared to the other 3

I researched a bit about the AKG K712 PRO and found a lot of people saying they're perfect for gaming.

Since that's my first priority I think I'll give them a try, I'll share my experiences once the time comes.

 

To get back to the core of this thread, what DAC / AMP combo do you recommend for the AKG?

Will I be fine with the Fulla 2 or should I look for something of higher quality to get the most out of the headphone?