Building my cousin a PC. Need advice.

[stconquest]

5 minutes ago, PlymouthJoseph said:

What's that motherboard?

Z-Series.

 

This allows for SLI but can also allow the 6500 to be overclocked.  BUT... There are quirks to overclocking the 6500. 

 

You have to increase the BCLK as the multiplier is locked.

 

1. You lose your iGPU.

2. You lose your CPU core thermal sensors.

3. L1 cache speed is reduced by 75%.

4. You lose C-states.

5. AVX instruction set gets disabled.

 

You can get the clock up over 4GHz this way.  It takes a little "know-how" though.  A slight learning curve.

[PlymouthJoseph]

8 minutes ago, stconquest said:

The i5 6500 is a non-K CPU.  I am 100% certain that the 6500 is a better direction for this PC.  Gaming performance, power efficiency and a competitive multi-threaded performer.  There is literally no reason to go with an AMD CPU.

 

Out of the thousands of builds I have seen here, only one or two have warranted the less expensive FX 8XXX CPU.  One of them was a 100% chess simulation PC.

Sorry... I'm still a little weary... You are diffidently 100% sure, going with that CPU, motherboard and RAM will better than a 4.5GHz FX-8350, MSI 990FXA and 16GB 1600MHz RAM? 

Remember that he'll be gaming, recording, editing, rendering and general PC use. It'll diffidently be quicker and smoother on the Intel rather than the AMD?

[PlymouthJoseph]

22 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Z-Series.

 

This allows for SLI but can also allow the 6500 to be overclocked.  BUT... There are quirks to overclocking the 6500. 

 

You have to increase the BCLK as the multiplier is locked.

 

1. You lose your iGPU.

2. You lose your CPU core thermal sensors.

3. L1 cache speed is reduced by 75%.

4. You lose C-states.

5. AVX instruction set gets disabled.

 

You can get the clock up over 4GHz this way.  It takes a little "know-how" though.  A slight learning curve.

That's fair enough... But that is completely out of my price range... But could always be a "upgrade"? 

[stconquest]

11 minutes ago, PlymouthJoseph said:

Sorry... I'm still a little weary... You are diffidently 100% sure, going with that CPU, motherboard and RAM will better than a 4.5GHz FX-8350, MSI 990FXA and 16GB 1600MHz RAM? 

Remember that he'll be gaming, recording, editing, rendering and general PC use. It'll diffidently be quicker and smoother on the Intel rather than the AMD?

Yes.  For the few instances where the multi-threading benefit of the FX CPU will come into play, the i5 will provide a better performing PC for the same money.  You don't have to deal with the heat or overclock stability.

 

The i5 will perform heavy workloads just fine.  I mean the FX 9590 clocked at 4.7 GHz is slower than some laptop Haswell i5s running at 2.6GHz.  That is ridiculous. 

 

I mention the 9590 because of the clock speed out of the box.  The FX 8XXX CPUs and the 9XXX CPUs are the same.  They just clock certain ones higher and rename them.

 

@PlymouthJoseph  If you could see all the old the threads regarding this issue you would understand.  Make a thread with both CPU/Mobo/RAM setups at 250 pounds.  Tell them you have a cooler already. 

 

[PlymouthJoseph]

2 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Yes.  For the few instances where the multi-threading benefit of the FX CPU will come into play, the i5 will provide a better performing PC for the same money.  You don't have to deal with the heat or overclock stability.

 

The i5 will perform heavy workloads just fine.  I mean the FX 9590 clocked at 4.7 GHz is slower than some laptop Haswell i5s running at 2.6GHz.  That is ridiculous. 

 

I mention the 9590 because of the clock speed out of the box.  The FX 8XXX CPUs and the 9XXX CPUs are the same.  They just clock certain ones higher and rename it.

Makes sense, but looking at this: http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-6500-vs-AMD-FX-8350

 

It makes me think that the AMD will do a better job at multicore tasks such as multiple tabs in chrome or running multiple things at once such as Minecraft, Chrome, Music and other background tasks. Would Intel still edge out? 

[stconquest]

4 minutes ago, PlymouthJoseph said:

Makes sense, but looking at this: http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-6500-vs-AMD-FX-8350

 

It makes me think that the AMD will do a better job at multicore tasks such as multiple tabs in chrome or running multiple things at once such as Minecraft, Chrome, Music and other background tasks. Would Intel still edge out? 

That is a terrible comparison section.  Go to user benches or another site.

 

AMD is not better at doing that.  Right now, I am streaming a news program, browsing the forums and playing Minecraft (dual monitors) with my i5 3570K.  I have no drop in general performance.

[PlymouthJoseph]

11 hours ago, Castdeath97 said:

Intel does have a core i5 6400 around 149 pounds which does beat the 8350 but can't overclock. Also the 750W PSU is absolutely overkill, get something around 600-500W.

I know the PSU is overkill... But I've had it lying around for months, and I ain't gonna use it any time soon... So why not now?

[PlymouthJoseph]

1 minute ago, stconquest said:

That is a terrible comparison section.  Go to user benches or another site.

 

AMD is not better at doing that.  Right now, I am streaming a news program, browsing the forums and playing Minecraft (dual monitors) with my i5 3570K.  I have no drop in general performance.

Could you possibly link me to some comparison sites?

[stconquest]

5 minutes ago, PlymouthJoseph said:

Could you possibly link me to some comparison sites?

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-6500-vs-AMD-FX-8350/3513vs1489

 

@PlymouthJoseph You can see a 31% advantage for the i5 in single core performance;  29% at all four cores being used;  and a 23% disadvantage when a program can use more than four cores.  These are real world benches. 

[PlymouthJoseph]

11 minutes ago, stconquest said:

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-6500-vs-AMD-FX-8350/3513vs1489

 

@PlymouthJoseph You can see a 31% advantage for the i5 in single core performance;  29% at all four cores being used;  and a 23% disadvantage when a program can use more than four cores.  These are real world benches. 

Are there many games which can use more than 4 cores? I know he'll be playing games such as GTA-V, Minecraft, NFS-MW, TF2, Dota 2 and Watch Dogs. 

[stconquest]

3 minutes ago, PlymouthJoseph said:

Are there many games which can use more than 4 cores? I know he'll be playing games such as GTA-V, Minecraft, NFS-MW, TF2, Dota 2 and Watch Dogs. 

Out of that list, GTAV uses at least four.  Check benchmarks for GTAV.

 

The rest won't use more than two, most of them are single core.

[PlymouthJoseph]

Just now, stconquest said:

Out of that list, GTAV uses at least four.  Check benchmarks for GTAV.

 

The rest won't use more than two, most of them are single core.

Single core? Including Watch Dogs? 

 

Oh, and would there be any upside to having a iGPU with the CPU, because surely that if I'm going to be using a GPU, the iGPU will be useless?

[PlymouthJoseph]

5 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Out of that list, GTAV uses at least four.  Check benchmarks for GTAV.

 

The rest won't use more than two, most of them are single core.

Just asked this on TomsHardware and got suggested a Intel Xeon Processor E3-1231 v3 and a Asus H81M-PLUS motherboard, and since it is DDR3, I won't have to sell it... Whatcha think?

[PlymouthJoseph]

AMD FX-8350 with MSI 990FXA and 4x4GB 1600MHz RAM (£257)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intel I5-6500 with ASRock H110M-HDV and 1x8GB 2133MHz RAM (£250)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intel Xeon Processor E3-1231 v3 with Asus H81M-PLUS and 2x4GB 1600MHz RAM (£259)

 

@stconquest Which one now?

[stconquest]

2 minutes ago, PlymouthJoseph said:

Just asked this on TomsHardware and got suggested a Intel Xeon Processor E3-1231 v3 and a Asus H81M-PLUS motherboard, and since it is DDR3, I won't have to sell it... Whatcha think?

I don't recommend 8-Series mobos with Haswell Refresh CPUs because I would have to verify compatibility and I am lazy.

 

8-Series (H81,B85, H87, Z87) motherboards were designed for Haswell CPUs (i3 4130, i5 4440, i5 4670K, i7 4770K, etc...).

 

9-Series (H97, Z97) motherboards were developed for Haswell Refresh CPUs. (i3 4170, i5 4460, i5 4690K, i7 4790K, etc...)

 

Although the Haswell Refresh CPUs can work with a 8-Series motherboard, you have to verify that the bios has been updated to Haswell Refresh specification.  If you were to buy the H81 motherboard with a Haswell Refresh CPU and the bios is not updated you won't be able to do anything with it.  You would not be even able to update the bios because the working CPU is required to do that.

[stconquest]

3 minutes ago, PlymouthJoseph said:

AMD FX-8350 with MSI 990FXA and 4x4GB 1600MHz RAM (£257)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intel I5-6500 with ASRock H110M-HDV and 1x8GB 2133MHz RAM (£250)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intel Xeon Processor E3-1231 v3 with Asus H81M-PLUS and 2x4GB 1600MHz RAM (£259)

 

@stconquest Which one now?

Verfiy the H81 motherboard has an updated bios to support the Haswell Refresh CPU (E3-1231 V3).  That is by far the best option.

[PlymouthJoseph]

2 minutes ago, stconquest said:

I don't recommend 8-Series mobos with Haswell Refresh CPUs because I would have to verify compatibility and I am lazy.

 

8-Series (H81,B85, H87, Z87) motherboards were designed for Haswell CPUs (i3 4130, i5 4440, i5 4670K, i7 4770K, etc...).

 

9-Series (H97, Z97) motherboards were developed for Haswell Refresh CPUs. (i3 4170, i5 4460, i5 4690K, i7 4790K, etc...)

 

Although the Haswell Refresh CPUs can work with a 8-Series motherboard, you have to verify that the bios has been updated to Haswell Refresh specification.  If you were to buy the H81 motherboard with a Haswell Refresh CPU and the bios is not updated you won't be able to do anything with it.  You would not be even able to update the bios because the working CPU is required to do that.

https://www.asus.com/uk/support/CPU/1/45/5/4/OfnvRb5Njh2jDsyn/C20140504155934/

 

Have a look, it does... Right?

[PlymouthJoseph]

@stconquest 

 

I thought that Xeons are not designed for gamers... So this wouldn't be amazing for games? Compared to the i5 or 8350 anyway... 

[PlymouthJoseph]

AMD = 4 DDR3 DIMM slots, overclockable, 8 cores, 8 threads

 

i5 = 2 DDR4 DIMM slots, not overclockable, 4 cores, 4 threads

 

Xeon = 2 DDR3 DIMM, not overclockable (I think) 4 cores, 8 threads, 

 

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO CHOOSE!!! ARG!!! SOMEONE, PLEASE HELP ME!!!!! @stconquest

[stconquest]

44 minutes ago, PlymouthJoseph said:

https://www.asus.com/uk/support/CPU/1/45/5/4/OfnvRb5Njh2jDsyn/C20140504155934/

 

Have a look, it does... Right?

You have to contact the retailer and ask them.  If that motherboard has been sitting in storage for a year or longer, the bios might be old.

33 minutes ago, PlymouthJoseph said:

@stconquest 

 

I thought that Xeons are not designed for gamers... So this wouldn't be amazing for games? Compared to the i5 or 8350 anyway... 

Haswell Xeons are just as fast as the iCore CPUS.  Clock for clock, the perform the exact same.  The Xeon is like having an i7 4770 but it does not have an iGPU.

10 minutes ago, PlymouthJoseph said:

AMD = 4 DDR3 DIMM slots, overclockable, 8 cores, 8 threads

 

i5 = 2 DDR4 DIMM slots, not overclockable, 4 cores, 4 threads

 

Xeon = 2 DDR3 DIMM, not overclockable (I think) 4 cores, 8 threads, 

 

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO CHOOSE!!! ARG!!! SOMEONE, PLEASE HELP ME!!!!! @stconquest

Xeon.  It beats the FX at everything and is within 5% of the i5 6500 at four cores or less.

[PlymouthJoseph]

Just now, stconquest said:

You have to contact the retailer and ask them.  If that motherboard has been sitting in storage for a year or longer, the bios might be old.

 

Haswell Xeons are just as fast as the iCore CPUS.  Clock for clock, the perform the exact same.  The Xeon is like having an i7 4770 but it does not have an iGPU.

 

Xeon.

Well... In that case... Xeon it is?  I guess with the Xeon, he'll get "Gloat-ability" saying he's got a £200 Xeon...

 

Didn't you say that DDR4 was something to keep in mind due to the much faster  2133MHz?

[stconquest]

Just now, PlymouthJoseph said:

Well... In that case... Xeon it is?  I guess with the Xeon, he'll get "Gloat-ability" saying he's got a £200 Xeon...

 

Didn't you say that DDR4 was something to keep in mind due to the much faster  2133MHz?

Yeah.  The overclockers here have been testing it.  Where there is more CPU overhead in games (more dependency on CPU) the faster RAM raises the low FPS dips. 

[PlymouthJoseph]

1 minute ago, stconquest said:

Yeah.  The overclockers here have been testing it.  Where there is more CPU overhead in games (more dependency on CPU) the faster RAM raises the low FPS dips. 

But in everyday gaming and PC use, it shouldn't make a massive difference...

[stconquest]

Just now, PlymouthJoseph said:

But in everyday gaming and PC use, it shouldn't make a massive difference...

Nope.

[PlymouthJoseph]

1 minute ago, stconquest said:

Nope.

So, it's sold? Going with the Xeon with the H81M-PLUS and 2x4GB DDR3 1600MHz? With the upgrade to 2x8GB? And this will be absolutely perfect for what he wants to do? Game, record, edit, render, and general PC use? And this will be better over the i5-6500?