Beyerdynamic Custom T1 Pro Headset

[Packdemon]

Disclaimer: This is not an official Beyerdynamic product, nor is this a DIY guide.

 

"A truly high end audiophile grade headset," this is a statement that I sadly have not been able to make about any product. They never seem to have all of the features that Iwant in a high end headset, and they never have what they need to be a high end audiophile grade headset. Most have fairly low resistances which I don't think could be justified for the typical audiophile desktop home setup. Quite a few have semi- or fully- open backed designs, which for me can't be justified with use of a microphone that is next to your face (unless if it has great ambient noise cancellation and your volume is perhaps low with say a semi- and not fully- open backed headphones). And none of them have the detailed sound quality of a T1 or HD800 (none of them are even in that price range), at best there are perhaps headsets that are are par with the Beyerdynamic DT line in terms of detailed sound. And the last thing that makes a pair of headphones into an actual headset: the mic. I'd say that the majority of microphones that are integrated with audiophile grade headsets generally aren't that good, granted when gaming I don't necessarily care how I sound to my friends so long as they can understand me, but I'd still like for there to be a standard set in place for headset mics because I don't like hearing my friends voices being carried as fuzz audio and I know that as fellow audiophiles they think the same thing about my voice. I don't like having add-on solutions like modmic either because I don't like having a second cable and it makes me mad having a magnet so close to my drivers (even if the distortion is very minimal, I already pay top dollar just to not hear that) when they could have designed the modmic to have a clasp or ball-in-socket method of attachment.

 

• High impedance (600 ohms if possible)
• No noise leakage:
  • Closed-backed
  • An adequate seal:
    • Adequate clamping pressure/force
    • Non-perforated leather earpads
• Detailed sounding high end drivers with a fairly neutral sound signature
• A decent sounding mic
• Mic has to pickup sound below 50Hz to catch all of the overtones of my deep voice
• No separate mic cable (other that the two heads at the ends)
• No magnetic attachment mics
• An overall comfortable design:
  • All non-synthetic materials are preferred 
  • Soft, but dense viscoelastic foams are preferred (e.g. memory foam)

 

Since nothing like this was out there I decided that I'd just create my own:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the full list of components used (I ordered most of the individual parts directly from Beyerdynamic Germany): 

 

• A used Custom One Pro (for it's housing, jack, and metal band)
• Black Leather Beyerdynamic HS 800 aviator headband
• Black Leather Beyerdynamic HS 800 viscoelastic (memory) foam earpads (that are not perforated)
• Gen.1 T1 drivers (there was no Gen.2 at the time)
• T1 ironing bracket and sliding kit (mostly for aesthetics, but it is a little bit more comfortable since the ear cups have greater rotation)
• Beyerdynamic COP Headset Gear Custom One Pro Microphone cable
• A few other cables for when I am using my desktop mic or smart phone
• A Custom Cans Mass Loading and damping kit
• And a decent 3 channel (R+, R-, and an additional ground) wire cable to route in between the ear cups (I enlarged the wholes to make it fit and sealed it with a rubber gasket)

 

These mods weren't done with an absent mind. I understood that since the original T1 driver was designed for a semi-open backed housing, placing the drivers into this housing caused the bass drop significantly. Two things were done to fine tune the bass to increase it back to it's original levels while still being in the COP housing. First, I enlarged the bassports (not too much though, otherwise this would basically still be a semi-open backed headphone) and set the bassport to position 4. Second, those leather earpads are non-perforated memory foam pads that help create a better seal, doing this significantly increases the bass relative to the rest of the sound. After that it was just a matter of fine tuning the bassports until the bass was perfect. This headset actually is dampened, and sounds a lot better than my undampened T1. I found this kit to be the best dampening for this particular build as nothing else work sonically and because of the tight fit:

My impressions on the sound of this compared to a regular T1 is that this sounds quite a bit louder, it has a significant more amount of isolation, the soundstage illusion is a bit less, and they more or less actually sound the same other than the hot treble spikes not being present in the Custom T1. I'd say that overall out of the two this one is far more comfortable.

Since this isn't a DIY guide or anything I won't be posting on how to make this in the comments. I won't be making a DIY thread either unless if you guys were REALLY interested since that would take up quite a bit of my time. If you have any questions, requests, criticisms, or helpful advice about these headphones, then feel free to join the discussion down below.

[SSL]

Mm hm. No sound impressions? Because I would expect this to sound weird, of not downright shitty. A headphone is more than just the driver and the original Tesla driver was never tuned for this particular enclosure. Same deal with the pads - huge impact on the sound from those. It also suffers from a sever lack of damping; I am not aware whether or not the COP has any internal to the ear cup.

 

I also find the concept a bit, I don't know, ironic? You go to all this trouble to make an "audiophile" headset - using a $1k+ headphone no less - then stick a mediocre microphone on it purely for convenience.

[KaminKevCrew]

Mm hm. No sound impressions? Because I would expect this to sound weird, of not downright shitty. A headphone is more than just the driver and the original Tesla driver was never tuned for this particular enclosure. Same deal with the pads - huge impact on the sound from those. It also suffers from a sever lack of damping; I am not aware whether or not the COP has any internal to the ear cup.

 

I also find the concept a bit, I don't know, ironic? You go to all this trouble to make an "audiophile" headset - using a $1k+ headphone no less - then stick a mediocre microphone on it purely for convenience.

I mean, not to mention the fact that the original T1 wasn't a very good headphone in the first place... Also, 600 Ohm impedance? Who the hell cares about that? Impedance doesn't really mean anything... The $4,000 Audeze LCD-4 has a 100 ohm impedance, and the XC has an imedance of 20 ohms. Impedance means pretty much nothing. 

 

Also, why does closed back even matter? As long as you're not listening at ear-splitting volume levels, open back doesn't matter, and the improvements that you get in sound stage/positioning are excellent. 

 

The whole thing about detailed sounding high end drivers is actually probably a negative, because most games have very low quality sound, not to mention the fact that highly detailed sound isn't needed...

 

The whole mic thing... Pretty much anyone who has the cash to throw $1,000+ on a pair of headphones obviously appreciates sound quality, and would likely be willing to shell out at least another $100 for a halfway decent desktop mic. So really, who does this even cater to? And I would say that you are doing your friends a great disservice by using such a crap mic, for someone who professes to care so much about their audio... 

[KaminKevCrew]

Oh, and the whole thing about multiple cables, you could just use a Vmoda BoomPro, which would look a lot better than the mess you have on there now...

[Packdemon]

Mm hm. No sound impressions? Because I would expect this to sound weird, of not downright shitty. A headphone is more than just the driver and the original Tesla driver was never tuned for this particular enclosure. Same deal with the pads - huge impact on the sound from those. It also suffers from a sever lack of damping; I am not aware whether or not the COP has any internal to the ear cup.

SSL, on 11 Oct 2015 - 7:32 PM, said:

 

I've already thought and addressed all of those issues when building this headset. The original T1 driver was designed for a semi-open backed housing, placing the drivers into this housing caused the bass drop significantly. Two things were done to fine tune the bass to increase it back to the original levels while still being in the COP housing. First, I enlarged the bassports (not too much though, otherwise this would basically still be a semi-open backed headphone) and set the bassport to position 4. Second, those leather earpads are non-perforated memory foam pads that help create a better seal, doing this significantly increases the bass relative to the rest of the sound. After that it was just a matter of fine tuning the bassports until the bass was perfect. This headset actually is dampened, and sounds a lot better than my undampened  T1. I found this kit to be the best dampening for this particular build as nothing else work sonically and because of the tight fit: 

 

 

I also find the concept a bit, I don't know, ironic? You go to all this trouble to make an "audiophile" headset - using a $1k+ headphone no less - then stick a mediocre microphone on it purely for convenience.

Although I do own another T1, this headset was actually made entirely from parts that I ordered from Germany and a used COP. Not including the T1 bracket and sliding kit (I didn't need those really, it was for aesthetics) it only cost me around $580 to make. With the T1 bracket and sliding kit it was like another $100.

[Packdemon]

Oh, and the whole thing about multiple cables, you could just use a Vmoda BoomPro, which would look a lot better than the mess you have on there now...

The Vmoda BoomPro's mic cable is not as good as the one that I am using: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DHBVUCQ

[SSL]

I've already thought and addressed all of those issues when building this headset. The original T1 driver was designed for a semi-open backed housing, placing the drivers into this housing caused the base drop significantly. Two things were done to fine tune the base to increase it back to the original levels while still being in the COP housing. First, I enlarged the baseports (not too much thogh, otherwise this would basically still be a semi-open backed headphone) and set the baseport to position 4. Second, those leather earpads are non-perforated memory foam pads that help create a better seal, doing this significantly increases the base relative to the rest of the sound. After that it was just a matter of fine tuning the baseports until the base was perfect. This headset actually is dampened, and sounds a lot better than my undampened  T1. I found this kit to be the best dampening for this particular build as nothing else work sonically and because of the tight fit:

 

Well done.

[Packdemon]

I just edited mp OP to include my impressions.

[Packdemon]

Well done.

Thank you. And, I love the threads in your signature, btw.

[RazerZ]

It's bass not base

[Packdemon]

If I had known that there was going to be a Gen.2 T1 back when I first made this headset, then I would have just waited to get those drivers instead because they are already predampened. It literally have some sort of rubber or rubber gasket on the driver already.

[Packdemon]

It's bass not base

lol, thanks. I can't believe I missed that  

[KaminKevCrew]

Thank you for providing some additional detail. Much more impressive now

[Packdemon]

Thank you for providing some additional detail. Much more impressive now

And it's all thanks to you guys! Your criticism have helped me to construct my OP better And, I have more coming. Though, oddly enough, it's actually taking me a really long time to respond to your first comment. Which, will actually contradict what I will have to say about me not having enough time in that very same comment. I just as though I feel like I need to make sure that "that" response will be well detailed enough to properly explain what I'll have to say. Unfortunately, I might not be able to finish that response today though. I have to get up really early in the morning to go to San Francisco tomorrow, and I'm going to be there for the entire day. My apologies in advance.

[Packdemon]

I mean, not to mention the fact that the original T1 wasn't a very good headphone in the first place... Also, 600 Ohm impedance? Who the hell cares about that? Impedance doesn't really mean anything... The $4,000 Audeze LCD-4 has a 100 ohm impedance, and the XC has an imedance of 20 ohms. Impedance means pretty much nothing.

 

I'm going to use a similar fallacy later on too, but just because something is more expensive doesn't make it better. Literally, correct me if I'm wrong, but you probably haven't tried any of these headphones have you? I've only tried the T1 out of all those myself, so I personally can't make the comparison. 

 

There are a fair number of benefits that you'll have with higher impedance, one of them being (when paired with an amp that has a low output impedance) that you get a higher signal-to-noise ratio which will equate to you getting much cleaner audio with a more detailed bass. There are a lot more, but since I don't have the time to list them all here's a thread that will do a good job of explaining all of the benefits of a higher impedance as well as links to other threads that do the same: http://www.head-fi.org/t/246424/benefits-of-high-impedance-headphones#post_3075111

 

Also, if no one in the audiophile community cared about impedance, then they'd all pretty much just be using 16 ohm headphones paired just with a DAC. I don't think that the whole of the audiophile community is filled with completely rational people who are very knowledgeable about audio (there is definitely a lot of misinformation being passed around as well as a lot of gimmicks), but most of them use high impedance headphones and amps, and that does count for something. I hate using the bandwagon fallacy in conversation, so I am not trying to use that as reasoning to convince you of why I am right. I just hope that it motivates you to do some research on high impedance and amps, since the majority of the community supports it and they have a good reason to. Usually, there is a good reason for why so many people believe in the same thing. So, find out why for yourself, and don't be convinced until your convinced. Sorry for all the redundancies.

 

Also, why does closed back even matter? As long as you're not listening at ear-splitting volume levels, open back doesn't matter, and the improvements that you get in sound stage/positioning are excellent. 

 

While closed-backed do have some objective benefits over open-backed headphones, the majority of the number of reasons (definitely not how long it takes to explain them though). I use them are either because of a personal preference or accommodation.

 

Objectively, closed-backed headphone have more isolation, and there isn't a place in this world that you can go to that is free of sound. At the very least you will always hear the sound of your heartbeat or breathing. Anything that you hear that is not the signal of the original audio that you are playing will interfere with you listening to it, and will distort your user experience even if it is not the "noise" that is referred to in signal-to-noise ratio. Sound is sound. This is all very true and simple logic. Also, while soundstage does matter, soundstage illusion does not (at least not positively). To not confuse the two, near true-to-life soundstage is created from a binaural audiophile that is recorded with 2 microphones at the same distance that your drivers are away from your ear. Depending on how well closely matched your drivers from your head to how far the microphones were to or in the fake head will affect how accurately you can mentally measure the distance of the audio that you are hearing. It is just as bad as to be over estimating as it is to be under estimating the actual soundstage. Now as for soundstage illusion or distortion or whatever you want to call it. Soundstage illusion is affected by how open your drivers are, how big the room you are standing in is and your placement in said room, the echo in the room, the seal that you are getting in your earcups, and the location that the drivers are playing relative to your ears. Try listening to a binaural video track with a pair of your open-backed headphones in a confined space like a closet and then an open space like your room to test this. While you do that watch the video carefully and try to feel how well you can hear each objects or person's distance relative to yourself, make the careful conclusion as to whether the soundstage is being over- or under- compensated it each situation. Now try the same test, but this time for the test feel the measurement for the distance both while holding both of your earcups equally away from your ears and while having them pushed heavily close towards your ears. You can use this video as the test (remember that the camera is located ~2 feet below the microphones):

 

As for my preferences, there are some times when I take these headphones on the go with me along with my CEntrace DACport Slim amp/DAC when I use my laptop, and I don't want my audio to be leaking in public places. Even if it's not a quiet place like a library (which I do go to a lot) hearing other peoples music usually disturbs me if it contradicts my psyche, so I don't like to circumstantially make someone listen to my garbage music when they think that it is garbage music. There is also the matter of me desiring isolation so I don't hear as much outside "noise" to distort my music. Also, another accommodation is that during a time when I'm not using my desktop microphone while watching a movie or a show, listening to epic bassy music, or playing a campaign/story game I like to close my bassports and plug in my subwoofers (one in front of my footrest, and two on my Aeron Herman Miller chair, one on the back and one on the bottom) and base shakers to my additional outputs. For this specific circumstance I literally needed a headphone with variable bass and isolation, and this was literally perfect for that unique use case scenario.

 

I'd also like to mention as a mix between preference and objective, that since the T1 telsa (magnets) drivers are so powerful, and since I get such a great seal in this closed housing with the non-perforated leather memory foam earpads I can actually get a decent volume on these things even without amplification despite them being 600 ohms. And with them being so loud in general I can set the volume of them much lower than my other 600 ohm headphones (i.e. my 600 ohm DT770s) meaning that I am getting even less distortion in comparison (that being objective). I even use them with my smartphone, which is a very convenient accommodation for me.

 

The whole thing about detailed sounding high end drivers is actually probably a negative, because most games have very low quality sound, not to mention the fact that highly detailed sound isn't needed...

 

I'm going to be lazy when answering this one, but I pretty much use this as my universal_headphones/headset/daily_driver, not just for when I play games.

 

It doesn't matter if the sound quality is "low" or not "detailed." While it does exist, it's generally impossible to tell the difference between something that is say 16 bit and something that in 24 bit, or between 48kHz and 96kHz. Not sure if that's what you meant by detailed though. I'm already pretty tired. In any case, these headphones paired with my amp/DAC actually makes League of Legends sound pretty great.

 

The whole mic thing... Pretty much anyone who has the cash to throw $1,000+ on a pair of headphones obviously appreciates sound quality, and would likely be willing to shell out at least another $100 for a halfway decent desktop mic. So really, who does this even cater to? And I would say that you are doing your friends a great disservice by using such a crap mic, for someone who professes to care so much about their audio... 

 

I already do have a desktop microphone, so I actually use a different cable when I am at home. I'd generally just use that mic cable when I am on my laptop, but I've sometimes used it paired with a headphone adapter splitter for important phone calls when clarity matters. With my phone I'd generally use this type of cable though because it's more convenient: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K36XWG0

 

Now, I don't mean to sound patronizing when I say this. Normally, I wouldn't care about giving a detailed responses like this, but I felt like you truly deserved one. It's just that you seem to have a such great interest and understanding of audio that I could just give the basic response. If you don't mind me asking, what got you into liking audio this much?

[KaminKevCrew]

Long response party!

I'm going to use a similar fallacy later on too, but just because something is more expensive doesn't make it better. Literally, correct me if I'm wrong, but you probably haven't tried any of these headphones have you? I've only tried the T1 out of all those myself, so I personally can't make comparison. 

 

There are a fair number of benefits that you'll have with higher impedance, one of them being (when paired with an amp that has a low output impedance) that you get a higher signal-to-noise ratio which will equate to you getting much cleaner audio with a more detailed bass. There are a lot more, but since I don't have the time to list them all here's a thread that will do a good job of explaining all of the benefits of a higher impedance as well as links to other threads that do the same: http://www.head-fi.org/t/246424/benefits-of-high-impedance-headphones#post_3075111

 

Also, if no one in the audiophile community cared about impedance, then they'd all pretty much just be using 16 ohm headphones paired just with a DAC. I don't think that the whole of the audiophile community is filled with completely rational people who are very knowledgeable about audio (there is definitely a lot of misinformation being passed around as well as a lot of gimmicks), but most of them use high impedance headphones and amps, and that does count for something. I hate using the bandwagon fallacy in conversation, so I am not trying to use that as reasoning to convince you of why I am right. I just hope that it motivates you to do some research on high impedance and amps, since the majority of the community supports it and they have a good reason to. Usually, there is a good reason for why so many people believe in the same thing. So, find out why for yourself, and don't be convinced until your convinced. Sorry for all the redundancies.

The thing is, as far as amping goes, generally, beyond a certain point (say, the O2), you won't hear a difference between something like an O2, and a $2,000 Benchmark DAC/amp. It's just the way it is. As for high impedance headphones, that's more of a holdover from when most headphone amps were basically speaker amps, with very high output impedance. If the source has an output impedance of, say, 50 ohms, then you would want a headphone with an impedance of at least 8X that, in order to account for the damping factor. In that use case, the headphones that you want should be at least 400 ohms in all frequencies, to help eliminate any distortion caused by the damping factor. That's the only real benefit that high impedance headphones bring to the table. Since most headphone amps (tube amps excluded, but I'm also not a fan of those, due to all of the distortion that they introduce.) nowadays have an output impedance of less than 1 ohm, the impedance of the headphones matters far less. 

 

The difficulty of driving a headphone is predominantly determined by the sensitivity, rather than the imedance, which is why something like the HD800 can be driven from a halfway decent cell phone. 

 

While closed-backed do have some objective benefits over open-backed headphones, the majority of the number of reasons (definitely not how long it takes to explain them though. I use them are either because of a personal preference or accommodation.

 

Objectively, closed-backed headphone have more isolation, and there isn't a place in this world that you can go to that is free of sound. At the very least you will always hear the sound of your heartbeat or breathing. Anything that you hear that is not the signal of the original audio that you are playing will interfere with you listening to it, and will distort your user experience even if it is not the "noise" that is referred to in signal-to-noise ratio. Sound is sound. This is all very true and simple logic. Also, while soundstage does matter, soundstage illusion does not (at least not positively). To not confuse the two, near true-to-life soundstage is created from a binaural audiophile that is recorded with 2 microphones at the same distance that your drivers are away from your ear. Depending on how well closely matched your drivers from your head to how far the microphones were to or in the fake head will affect how accurately you can mentally measure the distance of the audio that you are hearing. It is just as bad as to be over estimating as it is to be under estimating the actual soundstage. Now as for soundstage illusion or distortion or whatever you want to call it. Soundstage illusion is affected by how open your drivers are, how big the room you are standing in is and your placement in said room, the echo in the room, the seal that you are getting in your earcups, and the location that the drivers are playing relative to your ears. Try listening to a binaural video track with a pair of your open-backed headphones in a confined space like a closet and then an open space like your room to test this. While you do that watch the video carefully and try to feel how well you can hear each objects or person's distance relative to yourself, make the careful conclusion as to whether the soundstage is being over- or under- compensated it each situation. Now try the same test, but this time for the test feel the measurement for the distance both while holding both of your earcups equally away from your ears and while having them pushed heavily close towards your ears. You can use this video as the test (remember that the camera is located ~2 feet below the microphones):

 

As for my preferences, there are some times when I take these headphones on the go with me along with my CEntrace DACport Slim amp/DAC when I use my laptop, and I don't want my audio to be leaking in public places. Even if it's not a quiet place like a library (which I do go to a lot) hearing other peoples music usually disturbs me if it contradicts my psyche, so I don't like to circumstantially make someone listen to my garbage music when they think that it is garbage music. There is also the matter of me desiring isolation so I don't hear as much outside "noise" to distort my music. Also, another accommodation is that during a time when I'm not using my desktop microphone while watching a movie or a show, listening to epic bassy music, or playing a campaign/story game I like to close my bassports and plug in my subwoofers (one in front of my footrest, and two on my Aeron Herman Miller chair, one on the back and one on the bottom) and base shakers to my additional outputs. For this specific circumstance I literally needed a headphone with variable bass and isolation, and this was literally perfect for that unique use case scenario.

 

I'd also like to mention as a mix between preference and objective, that since the T1 telsa (magnets) drivers are so powerful, and since I get such a great seal in this closed housing with the non-perforated leather memory foam earpads I can actually get a decent volume on these things even without amplification despite them being 600 ohms. And with them being so loud in general I can set the volume of them much lower than my other 600 ohm headphones (i.e. my 600 ohm DT770s) meaning that I am getting even less distortion in comparison (that being objective). I even use them with my smartphone, which is a very convenient accommodation for me.

As for the whole open vs. closed thing, I can see that the two of us have clearly differing opinions here, so I'll leave it at that

 

I'm going to be lazy when answering this one, but I pretty much use this as my universal_headphone/daily_driver, not just for when I play games.

 

It doesn't matter if the sound quality is "low" or not "detailed." While it does exist, it's generally impossible to tell the difference between something that is say 16 bit and something that in 24 bit, or between 48kHz and 96kHz. Not sure if that's what you meant by detailed though. I'm already pretty tired. In any case, these headphone paired with my amp/DAC actually makes League of Legends sound pretty great.

That makes more sense. I use my headphones for gaming and music, which is why I spend a lot on them

 

I already do have a desktop microphone, so I actually use a different cable when I am at home. I'd generally just use that mic cable when I am on my laptop, but I've sometimes used it paired with a headphone adapter splitter for important phone calls when clarity matters. With my phone I'd generally use this type of cable though because it's more convenient: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K36XWG0

 

Now, I don't mean to sound patronizing when I say this. Normally, I wouldn't care about giving a detailed responses like this, but I felt like you truly deserved one. It's just that you seem to have a such great interest and understanding of audio that I could just give the basic response. If you don't mind me asking, what got you into liking audio this much?

The whole cable thing makes this seem a lot more reasonable

 

I really do appreciate you taking the time to write out a whole detailed response. You don't sound patronizing at all I really, really do have an immense interest in audio. My step-dad (who, sadly, passed away a few years ago) was an executive at microsoft, and he was really into audio, and he had quite a bit of money to throw into that area. At my house, we used to have a $40,000 stereo system, with B&W speakers, and Classe amp/pre amp/ cd transport, etc. I suppose that from then on, I really wanted to know more about this wonderful world that he had introduced me to, so I've been on an audio journey ever since.

 

/edit: Oh, also, it's true that I haven't listened to the Audeze LCD-4, or the XC, but I have listened to the LCD-2 and 3, and I've also listened to the high end sets from Hifiman, and the top of the line Grado. I also own the Hifiman HE-500, and I've owned the Sennheiser HD650, Audio Technica ATH A900XLTD, Denon AH-D7000, and the 1964Ears Adel A6 CIEM.

[Packdemon]

Long response party!

The thing is, as far as amping goes, generally, beyond a certain point (say, the O2), you won't hear a difference between something like an O2, and a $2,000 Benchmark DAC/amp. It's just the way it is. As for high impedance headphones, that's more of a holdover from when most headphone amps were basically speaker amps, with very high output impedance. If the source has an output impedance of, say, 50 ohms, then you would want a headphone with an impedance of at least 8X that, in order to account for the damping factor. In that use case, the headphones that you want should be at least 400 ohms in all frequencies, to help eliminate any distortion caused by the damping factor. That's the only real benefit that high impedance headphones bring to the table. Since most headphone amps (tube amps excluded, but I'm also not a fan of those, due to all of the distortion that they introduce.) nowadays have an output impedance of less than 1 ohm, the impedance of the headphones matters far less. 

True enough. Nowadays, there's really nothing that'd stop someone from using 16 ohm headphones without an amp at all. I'd wager that no one has the ear to hear difference between the change of a dampening factor of 8 from that of one that is even 6000, but I'd say that if you start making enough of these little changes to your overall setup then it starts becoming a noticeable 1 or even 5 percent change overall. The only problem with that it is that it could cost you upwards of 5-6 grand (maybe more if you are crazy or just insanely rich)

 

The difficulty of driving a headphone is predominantly determined by the sensitivity, rather than the imedance, which is why something like the HD800 can be driven from a halfway decent cell phone.

I tested it, and my headphones are actually louder than the HD800s

 

As for the whole open vs. closed thing, I can see that the two of us have clearly differing opinions here, so I'll leave it at that

Fair enough I still hope that one day soundstage can be accurately measured to end that debate (seems impossible now, but who knows).

 

That makes more sense. I use my headphones for gaming and music, which is why I spend a lot on them 

 

The whole cable thing makes this seem a lot more reasonable 

Yup

 

I really do appreciate you taking the time to write out a whole detailed response. You don't sound patronizing at all   I really, really do have an immense interest in audio. My step-dad (who, sadly, passed away a few years ago) was an executive at microsoft, and he was really into audio, and he had quite a bit of money to throw into that area. At my house, we used to have a $40,000 stereo system, with B&W speakers, and Classe amp/pre amp/ cd transport, etc. I suppose that from then on, I really wanted to know more about this wonderful world that he had introduced me to, so I've been on an audio journey ever since.

I'm glad that I didn't give that tone. And I'm sorry to hear that about your step-dad, from what you described he must have been one hell of a guy. Also, It take a great mentor to be able to remember all that he taught you this many years after the fact. I'm jealous, I had to get into audio all on my own with no one to help me

 

/edit: Oh, also, it's true that I haven't listened to the Audeze LCD-4, or the XC, but I have listened to the LCD-2 and 3, and I've also listened to the high end sets from Hifiman, and the top of the line Grado. I also own the Hifiman HE-500, and I've owned the Sennheiser HD650, Audio Technica ATH A900XLTD, Denon AH-D7000, and the 1964Ears Adel A6 CIEM.

That's unfortunate. I was hoping that there'd be someone to make that comparison for us. Maybe, I'll get to try them when I go to CanJam SoCal 2016 in March.

[KaminKevCrew]

I'm glad that I didn't give that tone. And I'm sorry to hear that about your step-dad, from what you described he must have been one hell of a guy. Also, It take a great mentor to be able to remember all that he taught you this many years after the fact. I'm jealous, I had to get into audio all on my own with no one to help me

He really was one hell of a guy. He got me a game for my PC one time, and my PC couldn't run it. So he bought me a graphics card. That didn't fit in my low profile Dell case, so what did he do? He bought me a whole new PC, literally just so I could play one stupid little game. (It was the original Race Driver: GRID.)

 

It makes me sad... I only knew him for 3 years or so, before he passed... 

 

He was kinda funny about audio though, because he was a huge fan of Active Noise Cancelling in headphones. I think that's due to all of the business trips he used to go on, and that when he wasn't in a plane, and wanted to listen to music, he would either be in his car, or at the house. 

[Packdemon]

He really was one hell of a guy. He got me a game for my PC one time, and my PC couldn't run it. So he bought me a graphics card. That didn't fit in my low profile Dell case, so what did he do? He bought me a whole new PC, literally just so I could play one stupid little game. (It was the original Race Driver: GRID.)

 

It makes me sad... I only knew him for 3 years or so, before he passed... 

 

He was kinda funny about audio though, because he was a huge fan of Active Noise Cancelling in headphones. I think that's due to all of the business trips he used to go on, and that when he wasn't in a plane, and wanted to listen to music, he would either be in his car, or at the house. 

Feel like I can relate with this guy really well. It's a really great feeling when you build a family member or friend a new PC. I remember the times that I built both my sister and cousin their very own PCs with complete color coordinated setups to go with it. They were both so speechless that it literally took thew a few months to realize what I had given them back on Christmas before they actually thanked me I love that so much, and I can't describe the feeling. It's just so addicting and makes me feel alive. I'm also a big fan ANC and PNI myself, and while I haven't gotten anything expensive or high end yet, but I still think that what I have beats out just about anything in overall levels of noise reduction. Right now I have an AudioTechnica ATH-ANC33iS (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CL3TAOQ) paired with a Browning HDR Hearing Protector (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005ERRM4G) that I wear over them. I replaced the headband of the hearing protector with beyerdynamic leather aviator ones for comfort. The ANC got rid of most of the lower frequencies while the PNI got rid of all the higher ones, so it was perfect harmony.

[Packdemon]

It'd be pretty cool if I did a build using one of these headset mics: http://www.beyerdynamic.de/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/intercom-broadcast-and-tv/headsets-for-moderators-and-commentators/dt-797-pv.html

[Packdemon]

Here's part of those setups that I was talking about: http://www.head-fi.org/t/638028/beyerdynamic-custom-one-pro-thread/30#post_11700843

[Packdemon]

I'll be bringing all of my headphone mods as well as many other of my audio inventory to this Head-Fi Meet in San Francisco: http://www.head-fi.org/t/778957

It's completely free, and you guys are welcome to come if you'd like.

[SSL]

I'll be bringing all of my headphone mods as well as many other of my audio inventory to this Head-Fi Meet in San Francisco: http://www.head-fi.org/t/778957

It's completely free, and you guys are welcome to come if you'd like.

 

Nice. I don't live in that area, but I recommend anyone that does check it out, it's a great way to hear new headphones.

[Packdemon]

@KaminKevCrew I take back what I said about closed-backed vs open-backed headphone in regards to soundstage. Open is better, unless if you have adequate dampening there are going to be a lot of reflections off of the cups of your headphones, whereas with just the mesh of open-backed you're going to get a lot less. I think the best results would be seen with open-backed headphones with no mesh in an anechoic chamber. That would be awesome. I swear if I'm ever am going to be rich one day, then I'll have my own anechoic chamber built and I'd listen to music, watch movies, and play games there. At that point I'd also get myself an Orpheus successor while I was at it. I can only imagine how immersive that would be...

[KaminKevCrew]

@KaminKevCrew I take back what I said about closed-backed vs open-backed headphone in regards to soundstage. Open is better, unless if you have adequate dampening there are going to be a lot of reflections off of the cups of your headphones, whereas with just the mesh of open-backed you're going to get a lot less. I think the best results would be seen with open-backed headphones with no mesh in an anechoic chamber. That would be awesome. I swear if I'm ever am going to be rich one day, then I'll have my own anechoic chamber built and I'd listen to music, watch movies, and play games there. At that point I'd also get myself an Orpheus successor while I was at it. I can only imagine how immersive that would be...

If you have the money for an anechoic chamber, you probably have enough to just buy some speakers.