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GeekRichieUK

[Help Required] Planning Methods and breaking Indecision

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Hi Guys, 

I'm interested in seeing some methods people use to rate/qualify build choices.  Scoring/Pricing/Rating methods that help narrow down a build would be super welcome but how do you rate your personal desire for Mini-ITX vs the tradeoffs? (Cost, East of Use, Expandability etc).  I keep getting stuck in some really gnarly cycles of indecision that are crippling my ability to pull the trigger.

I'm looking for a serious upgrade as my machine is 8 year old in May, but as soon as I get to a build I like my frugal side rears its ugly head to the point I will drop specs due to side by side comparisons and end up sacrificing alot.  

 

An example of the rabbitholes I go through are in the quote below - but ignore it if you think it'll distract from my original question

Quote

 

  • My Current Processor is my current setups strongest point - It's the infamous i7 2600K.  (I apparently take my research seriously as my previous to that was the Q6600 G0 Stepping Version - Both wicked CPUs) 
  • The current equivalent is 9700K - Which is a significant price hike from the 2600K 8 years ago.  Nice processor, but a bit pricey.
  • Comparing to previous generations, i7 used to be all about multi-threading.  But now its just core count - so the i5 9600K looks like a good alternative for me for a price reduction.
  • But the 9600K is almost identical to 8600K, which between me and you - I can get for £170 - A bargain!
  • But I begin to research Coffee Lake compared to Ryzen 7 and start worrying about things that probably wont matter 
    • AMD has 4 more PCI-E Lanes (I want those NVMe!)
    • AMD may allow PCI-E 4.0 support next year if I'm lucky with BIOS updates
    • AMD Mobo will be forward compatible longer than Intel
    • I like to edit videos occasionally, so the extra cores/thread would be used.
    • No extra cost for cooling (as the Prism would absolutely stay!) 
  • So I look at the 2700X - it would be £40 more expensive than a 8600K so that free cooler no longer a bonus point. 
  • Then finding a motherboard to compare the 2700X and 8600K takes me down the features (2x M.2, USB Type C and 1220 Audio) and form factor (ITX or ATX!) rabbit holes -  Repeat Ad Infinitum


If that isn't mental gymnastics, I don't know what is :P  Help me out guys - how do I get to a point where I can justify every decision without getting distracted?

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well instead of comparing your hardware to its current equivalents now go see what you are currently doing and get what has the best price to performance ratio for the stuff that you are currently doing

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There is a "bad pick" list in my head so I directly fault things right away, say Skylake-X CPU that's not the flagship or near the flagship, the RTX 2070, all the 28nm AM4 CPUs etc.

 

13 minutes ago, GeekRichieUK said:

how do you rate your personal desire for Mini-ITX vs the tradeoffs? (Cost, East of Use, Expandability etc

mITX machines can be quite powerful as well, as long as you're not looking to do the top overclocks, don't need a bunch of storage and have enough budget to buy those more expensive compact hardware. It's like buying a laptop instead of a desktop, if you want the smaller space, you just go for it and chew on the negatives.


Studying abroad, ditched the crappy laptop for a do-all laptop double. Dried factory CPU paste, long memory timings, cooler cools the inductors but not the mosfets and an inch of unused internal space on both left and right

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV system agent undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+100/+500, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: +4GB DDR4-2666 19-19-19-43 2T Storage: 128GB Toshiba NVMe SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) Monitor: 1080p 120Hz IPS G-sync

 

The best thing to do is reading the clock speed that doesnt end in a pair of zeros. Software voltage readings are wrong if your motherboard's not a high end model

CPU: i7-2600K 4493MHz (multiplier: 43x) 1.35V (software) --> 1.4V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 104.5MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 10-11-11-30 2T 2133MHz, custom: 10-11-10-30 1T 2229MHz) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (OC'd 150Hz) TN Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Results: Cinebench R15 Single thread:159 Multi-thread: 787 (thx Meltdown Spectre patch) Super Pi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.11s 1M: 8.4s 32M: 7m 45.9s

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

There is a "bad pick" list in my head

You got anything in the Coffee Lake or Ryzen 7 generations for Mobos or CPUs that I should avoid from your 'bad pick' list?

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1 minute ago, GeekRichieUK said:

You got anything in the Coffee Lake or Ryzen 7 generations for Mobos or CPUs that I should avoid from your 'bad pick' list?

CPU: not really, unless I can compare prices

 

Mobo: Those without VRM heatsinks are outright kicked, only good for using quad core CPUs at stock. For overclocking the high end CPUs, this time around Asus sucks because they give you cheap hardware but sell them at a high price. Gigabyte sucks on AM4 boards (unless you get the flagship) due to cheap hardware (though at least the price is somewhat cheap), but Z390 Aorus boards rock. MSI is the best choice on AM4, but Z390 boards arent as good as Gigabyte Aorus ones. Asrock is the safe bet on both sides, not the best but not the worst either.


Studying abroad, ditched the crappy laptop for a do-all laptop double. Dried factory CPU paste, long memory timings, cooler cools the inductors but not the mosfets and an inch of unused internal space on both left and right

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV system agent undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+100/+500, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: +4GB DDR4-2666 19-19-19-43 2T Storage: 128GB Toshiba NVMe SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) Monitor: 1080p 120Hz IPS G-sync

 

The best thing to do is reading the clock speed that doesnt end in a pair of zeros. Software voltage readings are wrong if your motherboard's not a high end model

CPU: i7-2600K 4493MHz (multiplier: 43x) 1.35V (software) --> 1.4V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 104.5MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 10-11-11-30 2T 2133MHz, custom: 10-11-10-30 1T 2229MHz) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (OC'd 150Hz) TN Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Results: Cinebench R15 Single thread:159 Multi-thread: 787 (thx Meltdown Spectre patch) Super Pi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.11s 1M: 8.4s 32M: 7m 45.9s

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

Asus sucks because they give you cheap hardware

Gigabyte sucks on AM4 boards (unless you get the flagship) due to cheap hardware (though at least the price is somewhat cheap), but Z390 Aorus boards rock.

MSI is the best choice on AM4, but Z390 boards arent as good as Gigabyte Aorus ones.

Asrock is the safe bet on both sides, not the best but not the worst either.

All of this is completely counter to my instincts based on info from 8 years ago! I don't suppose you have a good reference site/channel for this info?  Not saying you're wrong, I just need to wrap my head around this!

 

Also, I'm with you, I wouldn't feel safe without with VRM sinks on, I get funny about power as its a pretty dangerous thing to cheap out on but I don't know enough to actually understand who is using the good components in that area.   Plus - I prefer VRMs covered for aesthetics

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1 minute ago, GeekRichieUK said:

All of this is completely counter to my instincts based on info from 8 years ago! I don't suppose you have a good reference site/channel for this info?  Not saying you're wrong, I just need to wrap my head around this!

 

Also, I'm with you, I wouldn't feel safe without with VRM sinks on, I get funny about power as its a pretty dangerous thing to cheap out on but I don't know enough to actually understand who is using the good components in that area.   Plus - I prefer VRMs covered for aesthetics

If you're into reading datasheets, you can just check mosfet/powerstage efficiency and performance. Most of them have public datasheets Google can find you.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/lga-1151-mainboard-vrm-liste-1175784.html#z370

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html

 

As for channel, there's "Actually Hardcore Overclocking" in Youtube. Note that all the videos are long because apparently these things are very difficult to keep short.

 

And yes, TUF Gaming as Asus is now pushing has NOTHING to do with TUF as we know it.


Studying abroad, ditched the crappy laptop for a do-all laptop double. Dried factory CPU paste, long memory timings, cooler cools the inductors but not the mosfets and an inch of unused internal space on both left and right

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV system agent undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+100/+500, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: +4GB DDR4-2666 19-19-19-43 2T Storage: 128GB Toshiba NVMe SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) Monitor: 1080p 120Hz IPS G-sync

 

The best thing to do is reading the clock speed that doesnt end in a pair of zeros. Software voltage readings are wrong if your motherboard's not a high end model

CPU: i7-2600K 4493MHz (multiplier: 43x) 1.35V (software) --> 1.4V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 104.5MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 10-11-11-30 2T 2133MHz, custom: 10-11-10-30 1T 2229MHz) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (OC'd 150Hz) TN Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Results: Cinebench R15 Single thread:159 Multi-thread: 787 (thx Meltdown Spectre patch) Super Pi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.11s 1M: 8.4s 32M: 7m 45.9s

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