81*C too high for Ryzen 1700X?

[AriGee50]

So, as the title says, does 81 degrees sound too high? I know AMD says over 75 will result in "degradation" over time...which sounds like a pretty safe, cover-my-ass kind of comment (what exactly does degradation mean anyway in real world numbers? I know what it is obviously, but are we talking the chip will last 90 days at 80 degrees? 3 years as opposed to 10? or 9.5 as opposed to 10? you see my point). I have managed to get the chip overclocked to 4.0Ghz on all 8 cores (from 3.4 stock), I am working on seeing if I can get it stable at a slightly lower voltage for lower temps but where Im at seems to be pretty close to the limit. The cost of getting that speed (which I understand is a bit higher than most 1700s like to go) is pretty intense thermals. I am water cooling it on a Corsair H115i but my temps still stay at 81*C while folding (which I do for a good 6-8 hrs every night, so it is a pretty sustained load).

 

Do you think this is reasonable? Am I pushing it too far? Other Ryzen owners, what are your temps, does this seem reasonable to you?

 

This is a new chip and a new platform to me (hell, ive never even had an AMD CPU before) so im still feeling everything out.

Thanks everyone,

~ariana

[PeprBox]

I'm using a Ryzen 5 1600, I don't manually overclock it because I get all the performance I need from it. Not saying don't OC, but I'm just wondering why so high? As for the temps, 81 is a bit high, but safe I guess. I'm running a Cryorig M9A and I've never had my thermals above 40 at load. How I don't know, but that's what CPU-Z tells me.

[191x7]

Have you tried cooling the VRM?

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

R7 1700 3.9ghz @1.42v LLC:high

coolermaster 212 led + 2 fans, opencase, rm temp18~20C 

stress temp :75C 

idle: 35~40C

avg gaming temp: 50~60C

imo, the degrading is just used to scare people off

[Stefan Payne]

33 minutes ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

imo, the degrading is just used to scare people off

no, see the Intel SNDS thingy, that lead to B-Step 130nm Pentium 4 CPU to suddenly die while overclocked.

 

So the question is what AMD means with Degradation?

Do they mean "CPU won't survive 5 Years or more"? 

Wich they probably do.

So with that degration, the CPU might only live 3 years or so...

[AriGee50]

1 hour ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

R7 1700 3.9ghz @1.42v LLC:high

coolermaster 212 led + 2 fans, opencase, rm temp18~20C 

stress temp :75C 

idle: 35~40C

avg gaming temp: 50~60C

imo, the degrading is just used to scare people off

1.42v and 75 degrees under load?? wtf?

 

What does your coolant temp get to? I mean my house runs a little on the warm side, the inside of my case is about 32* with GPU and CPU at full blast and my radiator pulls air from the inside of the case (not ideal I know but its my only option, tubing wont reach anywhere else nor is there realistically a place to put it anywhere else). If I run 1.4v Im at like 85* in a heartbeat doing folding.

 

Idle temp is 47*, coolant temp is around 35* at idle and can get all the way up to 41

2 hours ago, PeprBox said:

I'm using a Ryzen 5 1600, I don't manually overclock it because I get all the performance I need from it. Not saying don't OC, but I'm just wondering why so high? As for the temps, 81 is a bit high, but safe I guess. I'm running a Cryorig M9A and I've never had my thermals above 40 at load. How I don't know, but that's what CPU-Z tells me.

Why? because I can lol. I do video editing and the extra horsepower helps a bit. Gaming too. I realize that there isnt much difference between say 3.8 and 4.0 but I just like overclocking and I really want that magical 4.0 just for my own satisfaction.

 

1 hour ago, 191x7 said:

Have you tried cooling the VRM?

I have an Asus STRIX Z370-F mobo and it has a pretty beefy heatsink on the VRM. Im not sure how to do better than that...

 

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

So with that degration, the CPU might only live 3 years or so...

You really think it wont last more than 3 years?? jesus...

 

Thanks everyone, Im trying to decrease voltage and keep stability. we'll see how it goes.

 

THANKS!!

[Stefan Payne]

23 minutes ago, AriGee50 said:

You really think it wont last more than 3 years?? jesus...

No, that was just an example.

But the Temperature isn't the only issue when overclocking as the voltage is equally, if not more important.

 

 

PS: because OC is a pain and so I don't do it no more these days.

Especially since its hardly worth it...

[191x7]

23 minutes ago, AriGee50 said:

I have an Asus STRIX Z370-F mobo and it has a pretty beefy heatsink on the VRM. Im not sure how to do better than that...

 

Slap a fan somewhere near the CPU to blow onto the VRM heatsink.

 

What thermal paste are you using?

[Brent744]

I used to have the Ryzen 7 1700. At an overclock of 3.9, temps never exceeded 57C under load.

I have since upgraded to Ryzen 5 2600. At an overclock of 4.0, temps never exceed 54C under heavy load.

Always utilizing Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste and a CoolerMaster Lite liquid cooler.

Keep in mind these are both 65W chips. I think your temps are too high and may shorten the life of the cpu. 3.9GHz seemed to be the sweet spot for a lot of the first gen chips.

[AriGee50]

14 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, that was just an example.

But the Temperature isn't the only issue when overclocking as the voltage is equally, if not more important.

 

 

PS: because OC is a pain and so I don't do it no more these days.

Especially since its hardly worth it...

Yea, I agree voltage is probably more important in terms of degrading the chip, the consensus Ive heard with these chips is try to keep it under 1.4v and definitely under 1.45v. AMD says 1.35v is their kind of "under this is for sure 100% safe" voltage. Ive managed to get it stable at 1.356v (still trying to get it lower). So at least in terms of voltage, I dont think Im hurting it too bad.

 

14 hours ago, 191x7 said:

Slap a fan somewhere near the CPU to blow onto the VRM heatsink.

 

What thermal paste are you using?

Im using Arcitc MX-4 right now. When I first put in this CPU I used Thermaltake TG-7 and it was a few degrees higher than the MX-4. Historically I have always used Arctic Silver but I heard good things about the MX-4 and wanted to try something new. In any case, I dont expect to get much better than a couple degrees from something other than MX-4. Not, like some other people are saying, like 20 degrees cooler than the temps im showing...

 

Not sure how I could put a fan anywhere to blow toward the VRM...I mean I suppose I could put my rear exhaust fan to blow onto the VRM instead of pulling air out of the case. My radiator is right above there and is also pulling hot air out of the case so it might not be too bad. Idk, Ill think about solutions.

 

13 hours ago, Brent744 said:

I used to have the Ryzen 7 1700. At an overclock of 3.9, temps never exceeded 57C under load.

I have since upgraded to Ryzen 5 2600. At an overclock of 4.0, temps never exceed 54C under heavy load.

Always utilizing Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste and a CoolerMaster Lite liquid cooler.

Keep in mind these are both 65W chips. I think your temps are too high and may shorten the life of the cpu. 3.9GHz seemed to be the sweet spot for a lot of the first gen chips.

This is crazy to me...I mean even at stock speeds I will go higher than 57C under load. I mean at idle im at 47C. And I just cleaned out the heatsink so I know its not clogged, radiator fans are good, yea its not ideal that they pull from inside the case but I have tried with the side panel off (and a fan blowing cool air into the case) and I dont see much drop in temps (3 degrees at most). I dont understand...

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

15 hours ago, AriGee50 said:

What does your coolant temp get to? I mean my house runs a little on the warm side, the inside of my case is about 32* with GPU and CPU at full blast and my radiator pulls air from the inside of the case

more numbers for your ref. 

It is on asus b350F, vcore + 0.2125v with LLC high, I see around 1.3875v to 1.3975v at normal load and 1.42v at stress.

fan cm212 fan was too weak I had to add a strong fan in push & pull, after half an hour stress  the cooler is just not hot may be ~40C at edge of fins.

I can feel wind blowing on vrm and keeping them under 60C (not sue if this matters) 

also it should winter here avg still 16-20C....I might tune it down in summer...

 

[AriGee50]

Question for anyone who has posted: could this be a SenseMI Skew issue? I have tried enabling and disabling SenseMI Skew and I get the same temps, but I guess I dont have the option of changing the SenseMI Skew Offset on my motherboard. Could that be the issue?

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

the offset was like +20C on x370 chips only, I thought they are gone after bios updates / chipset updates.

[AriGee50]

7 minutes ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

the offset was like +20C on x370 chips only, I thought they are gone after bios updates / chipset updates.

Yea this is separate. When I say offset I dont mean the 20 degree offset, I mean the SenseMI Skew Offset.

[Brent744]

I am unaware of this SenseMI option and what it's purpose is. Just to give you an idea on my setup, I have a 140mm fan on the front which sucks cool air into the case and the fan on the back is also setup as an intake to suck cool air through the radiator. And finally, a 120mm fan on the top to push the hot air out as an exhaust. As heat naturally rises I figured this would be the best setup and my chip sits around 20 - 23C on idle.

Your idle temps definitely seem too high as well. If you're confident that you have a good airflow through the case I would contact AMD. Before doing so, try "Load Optimized Defaults" in the bios options then save and restart. See if there's any change.

[AriGee50]

2 hours ago, Brent744 said:

I am unaware of this SenseMI option and what it's purpose is. Just to give you an idea on my setup, I have a 140mm fan on the front which sucks cool air into the case and the fan on the back is also setup as an intake to suck cool air through the radiator. And finally, a 120mm fan on the top to push the hot air out as an exhaust. As heat naturally rises I figured this would be the best setup and my chip sits around 20 - 23C on idle.

Your idle temps definitely seem too high as well. If you're confident that you have a good airflow through the case I would contact AMD. Before doing so, try "Load Optimized Defaults" in the bios options then save and restart. See if there's any change.

at stock temps are much lower. I dont remember what exactly, but its significantly lower. even if I put all 8 cores at 3.8 instead of 4.0 its a lot cooler (i can run a pretty low voltage to get 3.8). Now ambient temp in my case is way higher than 23C so its not even possible for my chip to go that low. Hell, ambient in the room is about 24C so... Ambient inside the case is about 28C at its lowest, usually a little higher, so intaking air from inside the case, theres no way I can get coolant below 28.

 

I did switch the radiator to intake air from the top of the case. now I dont like this setup much because it means I have one exhaust fan and 6 intake fans...but at least CPU temps are considerably lower, about 74 under full load, and thats with the fans on the rad running at 50%! which is crazy to me...my rad fans not sounding like a 747 at take off? crazy talk...

 

So thats good, even still, coolant gets down to like 32-33 at the lowest.

 

Unfortunately, my GPU has to pay the price. its only running 5C hotter than it used to, but my GPU fans are running at 80-85% to keep it there, before they could stay right about 60% to stay at 60C.

 

so, not sure what to do...but at least for the moment ive gotten things a little more reasonable.

[Brent744]

Glad to hear temps are slighly better. I would try adding one or even two more of the "intake" fans to the top of the case as an exhaust to help to assist in removing the hot air. But yes, if your ambient temp inside the room is 24 then idle temps will be a little higher.

[AriGee50]

3 hours ago, Brent744 said:

Glad to hear temps are slighly better. I would try adding one or even two more of the "intake" fans to the top of the case as an exhaust to help to assist in removing the hot air. But yes, if your ambient temp inside the room is 24 then idle temps will be a little higher.

cant really, the radiator is on the top, and while I can do a little modding to get a third fan up there, because of the way the shroud on the top of the case is, I would just end up with exhausting air which would just get sucked right back into the radiator...

 

Here is a diagram I made for another thread I have on the forum. The fan Im talking about could go to the right of the rad up top, but as you can see, with that shroud the way it is, that air is just going to end up going straight into the intake for the rad...

 

[MindArlekin]

Ryzen 5 1600 4.1Ghz@2.825V LLC2

MSI B350 PC-Mate, 4 phase vrm, similar to MSI tomahawk boards. Keeping vrm cool with 140 mm fan, that directly blowing on it.

I have gpu and cpu in one loop, but difference in temps in stress test with/witput gpu load is around 4 to 5 degrees (its 1060, so it not pumping out much heat).

With full cpu/gpu load (Prime95+Heaven) i get something around 68-69 on cpu after an hour (can't tell more precisely, because some background tasks screwing accuracy).

In the end, it all comes down to the silicon lottery. The better the chip, the father will be infamous "Ryzen voltage wall". Voltage, that your chip needs to be stable at given frequency, begins to grow exponentially as it gets closer to the "wall". It not unique to Ryzen, it just more pronounced, because first gen Ryzen has much narrower range of overclocking. Gamers Nexus maked good video about this: 

In a nutshell: roll back your overclock just a little bit, on 0.1-0.15 Ghz, very likely it will be stable at considerably lower voltages, so you will have much lowet temperatures.

As much as i like squeezing as much perfomance from chip as possible, I will never do it at expense of longevity.

[Brent744]

Ah, I believe I see the issue. The radiator has an attached fan correct? The attached fan is suppose to be setup in a way to suck cold air through the radiator so the liquid will become cool again when it cycles back to the cpu. Can you relocate the radiator/fan to the left side? where you have the red arrow pointing. That is how mine is setup. Then you'll have the space at the top to relocate another fan on the top as another exhaust.

 

Hot air naturally rises, so with this current setup you'll have warm air pushing through the radiator. The cpu cannot become cool if you're not able to cool the liquid inside the radiator.

[For Science!]

On 1/24/2019 at 2:00 PM, Brent744 said:

-

 

9 hours ago, AriGee50 said:

 

 

It is important to specify the following characteristics when comparing temperatures, otherwise you are comparing apples and oranges:

 

- Explicitly specify Tdie or Tctrl

- Which program you use to monitor the temperature (personal recommendation HWinfo64)

- Ambient room temperature

- If liquid cooling, fluid temperature

- Vcore under "heavy load" (if appropriate, Vcore specified vs Vcore obtained and the LLC level)

- Specify what "heavy load" is, time duration, and version number (E.g. Realbench (ver 2.56) stress test after 30 mins)

- Whether you are P-state overclocking or not

 

Other useful peripheral information

- Motherboard and BIOS revision number

- Base clock & multiplier

- Voltage method (manual, offset, auto, etc)

- GPU model and cooler style

- Case and case fans

 

In otherwords, if these are not specified, somebody may be quoting a temperature of a really unstable overclock (undervolted) but their "heavy load" is Battlefield 5 in a wintery Stockholm with the windows wide open and a room temperature of -10 degrees. Whereas another person may be quoting their load temperatures on a stably overclocked AVX  P95 in an Australian heat wave.

 

In particular to Ryzen, whether you P-state overclock or not will affect the idle power draw and temperatures to a large degree. And if you are using Realbench or anything that loads up the GPU as well, then the cooler style of the GPU will also affect the temperatures.

 

[AriGee50]

On 1/29/2019 at 7:31 AM, Brent744 said:

Ah, I believe I see the issue. The radiator has an attached fan correct? The attached fan is suppose to be setup in a way to suck cold air through the radiator so the liquid will become cool again when it cycles back to the cpu. Can you relocate the radiator/fan to the left side? where you have the red arrow pointing. That is how mine is setup. Then you'll have the space at the top to relocate another fan on the top as another exhaust.

Yes, of course it has an attached fan, and yes, certainly pulling cold air through it as opposed to warm air makes a big difference. in fact, since i turned those fans around and had them pull air in from the top of the case, my temps went from about 80-81 with fans at 2400 rpm to 73-74 with fans at 1100 rpm. I wish i could put it on the back of the case, but it is not a small radiator, its a 280mm radiator...theres no way. even if there were room in the case, the graphics cards will be in the way.

 

 

On 1/29/2019 at 7:33 AM, Brent744 said:

Hot air naturally rises, so with this current setup you'll have warm air pushing through the radiator. The cpu cannot become cool if you're not able to cool the liquid inside the radiator.

True, but i have seen tons and tons of people do a top mounted radiator that is exhausting air and therefor pulling warm air from inside the case, I am far from the only one who does this. 

 

But as I said, I have switched around the fans on the top so that they pull cold air in from the top of the case instead of exhaust. it isnt ideal because I now have a single exhaust fan but Im not sure what else to do. at least this way the CPU stays cool. the gpu has to work harder to stay cool but it can still be done relatively easily.

On 1/29/2019 at 7:45 AM, For Science! said:

 

 

It is important to specify the following characteristics when comparing temperatures, otherwise you are comparing apples and oranges:

 

 

- Explicitly specify Tdie or Tctrl Tdie

- Which program you use to monitor the temperature (personal recommendation HWinfo64) HWinfo64

- Ambient room temperature about 23-24C

- If liquid cooling, fluid temperature once saturated, about 41C while exhausting hot air, about 38C drawing in cool air

- Vcore under "heavy load" (if appropriate, Vcore specified vs Vcore obtained and the LLC level) 1.356v, specified and obtained, no Vdroop at all (because LLC: 5)

- Specify what "heavy load" is, time duration, and version number (E.g. Realbench (ver 2.56) stress test after 30 mins) I have used a number of tests, but the metric I use most frequently is folding@home, I know it is not a stress test per se, but it is the real world  very difficult load it will actually be functioning on regularly (and actually gives higher temps than aida64). and this is after hours of running it. (3-8 hours)

- Whether you are P-state overclocking or not no P-states

 

Other useful peripheral information

- Motherboard and BIOS revision number Asus Strix X370-F bios 4207

- Base clock & multiplier 100 x 40.0

- Voltage method (manual, offset, auto, etc) manual (1.356v)

- GPU model and cooler style GTX 1070 at 2077 MHz, dual fan open air style

- Case and case fans InWin GR One, mix of a lot of different fans, most of which suck ass, except the fans on the rad which only kind of suck ass (they move air like hell but theyre loud af) see the pic of the case above to see fans and placement 

 

hopefully that will help

As I said, I think im going to keep this setup of drawing air in from the top of the case. its not ideal but I think it is the better alternative. and I will keep thinking about what to do next. 

 

[Brent744]

You misunderstood my first comment. The fan at the top should be an exhaust. And you should relocate the radiator/fan to the side of the case as an intake.

 

Any yes there are many who install the radiator fan as an exhaust, which is sucking warm air through the radiator. This method is counter productive and leads to higher temperatures.

[AriGee50]

On 2/4/2019 at 7:21 AM, Brent744 said:

You misunderstood my first comment. The fan at the top should be an exhaust. And you should relocate the radiator/fan to the side of the case as an intake.

 

Any yes there are many who install the radiator fan as an exhaust, which is sucking warm air through the radiator. This method is counter productive and leads to higher temperatures.

not sure which "side" youre referring to, but this is the only place it can go. the case is too large for the hoses to reach the front of the case (and I would have to remove all 5 internal drives, which was half of the point of a case this big), its too large for the hoses to reach the bottom, it certainly couldnt go at the back, and I dont want to cut a hole in the acrylic panel for viewing, i think it would look terrible and while Im handy with a dremel, im not an artist either (well, not with my hands anyway...) and im never going to get it to look clean enough to be presentable, even if I did, I wouldnt like the aesthetic of having a giant radiator in front of all of the components I put a lot of time, effort and money into looking nice.

[Brent744]

Ah, I see. I understand now. The radiator/fan has two 140mm fans making it impossible to fit at the rear. My radiator/fan is the same size as the average case fan so I was able to place it at the back without having to modify anything.