ReanimationXP

Way to strawman and ignore oodles of rationale as to why this is an issue, and the solution I proposed.
 
It's not about the fact that OS's aren't supported forever. It's about having no way to install something you paid for. Retro computing is a thing.

Way to strawman and ignore oodles of rationale as to why this is an issue, and the solution I proposed.
 
It's not about the fact that OS's aren't supported forever. It's about having no way to install something you paid for. Retro computing is a thing.

It's even worse - apps to be published on the App Store must be built with the latest major version of Xcode - currently, Xcode 15. That requires iOS 12.0 minimum or macOS High Sierra minimum. Want to support anything older? Too bad, you can't!

Nevermind, should've read more closely, I'm a dumbass

Way to strawman and ignore oodles of rationale as to why this is an issue, and the solution I proposed.
 
It's not about the fact that OS's aren't supported forever. It's about having no way to install something you paid for. Retro computing is a thing.

Cool, although it shouldn't be up to volunteers to find some workaround for this

It's not about fixing any games - the issue here is exclusively steam's drm no longer working on windows 7 (and prior). The games would run, were they not locked in to the drm. So ensuring said DRM keeps working on old systems is entirely within valve's power and likely wouldn't require much continued effort, after all it's not like the DRM client within the games is changing.

Windows 10 was released in 2015, over 8 years ago, and is still widely in use. You'd be hard-pressed to find a game which runs on Windows 10 now that didn't then; I'm not aware of any and I play a lot of titles both old and new. This is patently false.
 
..hasn't been sold in two decades, and used doesn't always solve the problem. The internet's been around a long time. Installing may require things like online activation with an already-used CD-Key or long-defunct activation service. Not a solution. Nor should you have to re-buy games you already own.
 
Also, I'm not sure why y'all are in such a hurry to try and "disprove" me, even if you were able to. There's nothing "good" or to gain from this. The point is this sets a bad precedent and the act of effectively locking people out of things they paid for is completely unnecessary for the reasons I gave. Some of us specifically buy games on PC, not consoles, to avoid having to deal with things like planned obsolescence, and abuse from those who publish and sell our games from also having a vested interest in getting us to buy new hardware every few years. That situation is ripe for abuse and often is abused. Old console stores are routinely closed down.  Until now, digital distribution platforms like Steam have largely been immune to these things - almost everything you could ever access on Steam is still accessible.  Precedent matters, and you should retain access to the things you own.

Way to strawman and ignore oodles of rationale as to why this is an issue, and the solution I proposed.
 
It's not about the fact that OS's aren't supported forever. It's about having no way to install something you paid for. Retro computing is a thing.

There likely isn't much demand at all but as a matter of principle they should be on the hook for making sure games you bought from them don't stop being playable for reasons unrelated to the games themselves

I hope they will pay dearly for that in court...... And these same scumbags whoy cry about piracy non-stop, guess what. Taking away the paying customers stuff is not a good idea when piracy already provides a better service than any paid option.

Ok see, that’s why comparability mode is
important and it’s a feature Windows 11 still has. 

And it doesn't consume 3GB of RAM on idle for no reason.

I am prepared for Doomsday 😄
I modified the steam client to not update and removed the annoying red message that warns you of "End of Support".
I also made an installer with these modifications for use on other Windows 7 installations.

 
The thing is that you won't be able to play games on the platform they were released for.
This is messed up.
 
That's not the case with Windows 7, Windows 7 supports modern encryption standards,
And in fact there are forks of chrome that continue to support Windows 7 such as the supermium project.

Uh, what? Microsoft discontinued Mainstream support for Windows 7 on Jan 13, 2015 - if you want to point the finger at a company for "demonstrating a lack of care" point it at the OS developer first, not third party (to Windows) software developers.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-7

I don't know what hoops you had to jump through to achieve this, but it wasn't just compatibility mode.  I specifically had to create a Win 7 VM to run Diablo 1, my copy, years ago when I upgraded to 10.  Things these games rely on, like Intel Indio and DirectDraw, will become outdated and no longer run on modern versions of Windows.. so even if the game is supported, the frameworks it's written on, at some point, will not be.  It's the perfect example of a game that will only run on Win 7, and is the reason entire projects like DevilutionX exist to rewrite it.
 
Pretty much every single one of you who have posted an argument against this don't understand a fundamental part of what's wrong, probably because you either didn't read or don't understand the basics of steam installation and DRM, and I don't have the energy to correct all of you. Emulation is not a solution if you cannot get the game in the first place because you can't install the client.  For any DRM'd games, installed or not, if the client doesn't run, the DRM doesn't either. You cannot install Steam on an unsupported platform if the first thing it does is update.  Sure you can install an "old version" from some sketchy site, maybe that has been patched to not update or something, but then how do you know it's Steam and not just a credential harvester? There's no way to tell without being a malware reverse engineer.
 
No one has accused Valve of removing access to games, at least not yet.  If they did, I'm sure it wouldn't be "malicious".  I said it demonstrates a lack of care, and a breach of trust.  You could argue it is negligent.  It also opens the doors to more happening. If you can't install or update, and at some point can't even log into Steam on a particular OS, and a game only supports up to that OS, and you can only download the game on the Steam client, what motivation is there for Valve to not free up some server space and delete them all?  Under any normal circumstance, you literally can't download it at that point, so why would they keep it around?
 
Valve owns the safe that something you bought lives in, and they're taking away the key, or at least aren't giving you a new one when it breaks, when their responsibility and the trust relationship there is that if you paid for access to the key, they provide it. You might still "own" it on paper, but if you can't get at it then they've stolen from you!  Intentional or not.  As I stated in the opening, macOS users have it the worst.  You may have to buy a machine built within the last 7 years to even be able to access what you paid for.  That isn't Valve's fault, but should be taken into consideration.  Making things available on SteamCMD without a GUI would not be hard.  It makes no use of Chromium.
 
Sauron seems to be one of the only ones here who actually gets the full picture. Appreciate you fighting the good fight.  I don't know why so many people are so complacent.. even HAPPY to let mega corps take away their paid property.  This is why Louis Rossman rightly says piracy is justified.  His latest video about Sony doing this echos EXACTLY this situation.
 
Exactly. With one small caveat. We still need a way to download, and if the DRM is still there, it needs to work.  Whether that's the full version of the client, or some back-asswards way like SteamCMD with no GUI, I don't care.  If I have to drive to the next town to get a new copy of my safe key.. at least Valve is still honoring their promise of giving me access for life.

Summary
Steam is dropping support for Windows 7 on Jan 1st of 2024, as well as macOS Mohave and older on February 15th, 2024, putting access to games you have purchased in jeopardy, particularly older games which run only on these older OS's. Since steam auto-updates on launch, this implies you may no longer be able to install new copies of Steam on these OS's as of these dates, meaning you would have no way to download and install the games in your library anymore.  While transferring from another newer computer might be an option, if the OS it is too new, installation may not be allowed, may fail to install, etc.

This change will also likely affect games which are already installed, and may prohibit them from launching.  Since Steam regularly updates itself on launch, and games rely on Steam DRM, this means the Steam client must be working and logged in (in most cases) in order to launch. Thus if it does not, this update may lock you out of all installed apps, both old and new.  Steam does not offer any official way to downgrade or download older versions of Steam.  This will affect retro computing enthusiasts and macOS users the most.  I propose some solutions below Valve could use to allow users to retain access to their library without significant effort.
 
Quotes
 
My thoughts
I have combined the contents of both announcements into one in my quote, based largely on the macOS announcement.  I found this announcement in two places, both of which are overly hard to find, almost intentionally so it would seem.  Only by browsing and thoroughly reading Steam client updates did I notice the macOS sunsetting, hidden at the bottom of a long list of boring client updates (linked below).  I also happened to see the Windows sunsetting article on a Steam discussions post from a user, which I only happened to read because I was already troubleshooting an issue with the client.
 
This move demonstrates a lack of care and doesn't make sense to me considering SteamCMD is a Steam commandline client which is able to download tools like dedicated server apps from the Steam network, sometimes without so much as logging in, and sometimes (seemingly) without any DRM attached.  Regardless of the Steam UI OS requirements, older games are still something you have purchased, and something Valve may be contractually obligated to provide you access to.  Since Valve DRMs games, and also does not patch them to provide support on forward OS's as companies like GOG sometimes do, Valve in some cases would effectively lock customers out of their purchased licenses, even the latest up to date titles, simply because they chose to build their clients on aging browser technology rather than being true native apps.  Something else to consider - devs may have intentionally put significant effort into providing support for older OS's, even on new games.
 
On the macOS side of things, this move, combined with how Apple handles OS updates - specifically that they deny any machines 7 years old or later from installing the latest OS, may mean you are forced to buy a new computer entirely to access your games, and even then may have to emulate the older OS in order for it to run, depending on the title.  Applying this to another sector - imagine if you could no longer access your bank account or your stocks unless you purchased a new Mac at minimum every 7 years, and even then, possibly had to spin up a VM to do so.
 
In my opinion, Valve should be morally (and possibly legally) obligated to provide a path forward for those who have purchased a game, by either providing a way for DRM to continue to work on older platforms through something like SteamCMD, or removing the Steam DRM from them and allowing them to launch without it on older platforms - especially if previously installed.  They should also provide a way forward to download and reinstall them on older platforms, even if that means using a commandline tool such as SteamCMD rather than a nice UI frontend.
 
Apparently some in the Steam forums have already talked to lawyers about potential lawsuits, but were told announcements like this don't constitute a lockout - in other words, they'd have to be able to demonstrate an inability to access and play their games before legal action could be taken.  This seems incorrect to me, as addressing the issue beforehand would potentially avoid uncorrectable or expensive action on Valve's part (deleting old source code for example), but I'm not a lawyer.  I may send this to LegalEagle as well to see if he might weigh in with his take. I'm curious how situations like this work legally - especially if Valve has provided themselves a way out in the ToS somehow.  I know that, unlike other companies, I vary rarely if ever have to click Accept to Valve's TOS except upon initial install, meaning I may not have agreed to or seen it in over a decade. Other companies like Apple make you accept a new one damn year every time you launch iTunes.
 
I'd like to see Linus and/or Louis Rossman cover this so we could get some eyes on it and maybe get Valve to improve the situation.
 
Sources
Valve's Windows 7 Sunset Announcement (couldn't find it linked anywhere outside of the forum):
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4784-4F2B-1321-800A

Forum post where I heard about the Windows 7 announcement:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/4031347296569734477

Valve's macOS Mohave Sunset Announcement (found via the next link):
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/743F-2E0E-C9A5-C375

Steam Update where the macOS Mohave sunset is mentioned:
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/593110/view/3895113407856183761
 
Edited 12/3 - Updated summary to further clarify some of the implications of these changes.

Way to strawman and ignore oodles of rationale as to why this is an issue, and the solution I proposed.
 
It's not about the fact that OS's aren't supported forever. It's about having no way to install something you paid for. Retro computing is a thing.

Way to strawman and ignore oodles of rationale as to why this is an issue, and the solution I proposed.
 
It's not about the fact that OS's aren't supported forever. It's about having no way to install something you paid for. Retro computing is a thing.

What does youtube have to do with this? When have you last purchased a youtube video?
Non-steam DRM is not a problem here. Only steam DRM stops working when you can't install steam. And they could absolutely, if not remove it, at least provide a DRM spoofer that pretends to be steam for those specific games.
That's not what I said at all. I'm talking about allowing those games to keep working on systems they have always worked on and no longer will exclusively because you won't be able to run steam.
None of this is relevant to the discussion. I don't care about steam being available for windows 7 in perpetuity. I just want games that were purchased on steam and only work on windows 7 to not stop working just because steam will no longer be available for that system.
 
Nobody would accept this for any other kind of product. But for some reason we have collectively accepted that digital purchases don't mean anything and that digital goods you paid for can be taken away from you for no reason at any point.
Good for you? I didn't say this applies to all old games...?

Maybe not a whole lot right now but as windows changes it will get worse. The point here is that there's no commitment from valve to address this problem as it manifests.
Compatibility mode doesn't always work. There might also be games that were designed for systems older than 7 that work in 7's compatibility mode but not 10's.
 
If there truly are no games to which this applies then I wonder why Valve wouldn't just say so and promise to address such cases should they ever manifest...
It doesn't really matter how small the user base for those games is; Valve is actively making games those people purchased unplayable after the fact, which sounds like something that ought to be illegal if it isn't already. All it would take to fix the issue is to remove steam drm from those games, so people could keep playing them regardless of steam support for their system.

No... if those games only work on 7 then you can't play them any more.

I agree, they should also be legally required to ensure all games they sell work on officially supported platforms.
What update is required for you to keep playing a game you paid for on a platform it has always worked on?
Nobody is asking for any service. All we want is to be able to install and play games we bought. When you buy a game on steam it doesn't say "you can only play this for 10 years" or however long. Steam insists on only providing these games as a service so it's up to them to make sure they work as advertised.

Way to strawman and ignore oodles of rationale as to why this is an issue, and the solution I proposed.
 
It's not about the fact that OS's aren't supported forever. It's about having no way to install something you paid for. Retro computing is a thing.

Way to strawman and ignore oodles of rationale as to why this is an issue, and the solution I proposed.
 
It's not about the fact that OS's aren't supported forever. It's about having no way to install something you paid for. Retro computing is a thing.