Stefan Payne
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Posts posted by Stefan Payne
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On 6/20/2019 at 11:09 PM, Vectraat said:
And yes, I'm fully aware that AMD may offer better performance at a lower price when 3rd gen is released.
That's not the point.
The Point is that one side will do something, the other side will react to it.
And there are already some Articles about that on the way!
Here an Article:https://www.techspot.com/news/80614-report-intel-cut-desktop-cpu-prices-10-15.html
Here the Table for it.
https://www.planet3dnow.de/cms/47831-intel-mit-preissenkungen-als-reaktion-auf-amds-ryzen-3000/
The 9600 isn't in the list but the 8600 is, wich is only getting ~15€ cheaper but the 8700 for example is almost getting 30€ cheaper according to th List.
The 9900K for example around 50€, similar Drop with the 9700K.
Its not that one or the other is better, its that you have to pay more if you want it now and in a couple of days, the CPU gets a bit cheaper, possibly 10-20%.
If you don't have a Problem to pay up to 50€ more for ~2 Weeks earlier, fine. Your decision...
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18 hours ago, Rebdamas said:
Hey, i’m looking to upgrade from my old FX system, i have a fx 8320, and in over it. I’m looking for a processor, that i can stream on while still game comfortably. I currently have a Asus Dual 1060 6GB as my GPU and am not looking to upgrade yet. would the Ryzen 2700, or 3600 be a better buy for streaming, gaming, and editing? also, will it work on a cheaper B450 motherboard? Thanks for all of your help.
Rainbow Six Sieg?
Or what do you want to stream?
Check the GPU Encoder of your GPU and see if that works.
As for Gaming: the 3600 is the best choice due to architectural improvements, though 3700 might be even better, if you have the money.
Cheaper B450? No, not really. You should look at the 100€ or more price region. not the cheapest of the cheap, the better ones...
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1 minute ago, eb2k said:
Well in best case scenarios, its around 100$. Which makes quite a difference to me tbh.
In that case I'd go for the cheaper one.
Though the 2700 is faster, 100€ or so isn't really worth it (Assuming you're not talking in Down Under or Maple Dollars)
The 3600 is, allegedly, faster or close to the 2700 in multi core applications and the MSRP is 199 USD...
Anyway, for gaming, I'd wait for the 3000 series and get one of them over all last gen Ryzen.
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3 minutes ago, jerubedo said:
The 9600K beats out the 8700 easily on all games.
Both use the same Architecture.
The 9600K is 6C/6T
The 8700 is 6C/12T.
At the same frequency, its impossible for the 9600 to beat the 8700, it needs higher frequency.
And it might look OK now but "the future" will shine for the 8700 because it simply can use more resources.
3 minutes ago, jerubedo said:but the truth is that it did happen to 4 cores and 4 threads, but it took nearly a decade to happen!
More like 2 years.
The 7600K was released at the end of 2016/early 2017.
Here:
https://geizhals.de/intel-core-i5-7600k-bx80677i57600k-a1551201.html
"Gelistet Seit" is listed since...
That gives you a rough idea of how old a product is.
Now we have 2019. That's a bit more than 2 Years. Not "nearly a decade".
Because a decade ago 6C CPUs weren't available for consumer friendly prices.
3 minutes ago, jerubedo said:6 cores and 6 threads will have there moment in the sun at least for at least a few years.
See that's the same Argument as back in the day when people were arguing Core 2 Duo E8x00 vs. Q9550 or Phenom 2 X4...
It looked like that was true back in the day but whoever went 4 Cores had a lot more years to use their system.
Same with 4C/4T vs. 4C/8T. The ones with 8 Threads are still fine today, the 4Thread people are not.
Also you are wrong, here some Benchmarks:
https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3407-intel-i5-9600k-cpu-review-vs-2700-2600-8700k
That proves that there are some issues with the 9600K _RIGHT NOW_. Some kind of hangs/Stutter in the Far Cry 5 Diagram. So the 8700 he chose initially was the better choice...
In AC: Origins, the 9600K is around 53fps 0.1% Low, the 8700K at 70.7fps
The 9600K is simply a replacement for the i5-8600K. Why should he buy that when he can have the 8700(K)??? The 8700K is above the 8600/9600...In Cinebench (best case for Multi Core), we are talking about 137,7 Single Core and 1042 Multi Core Score. The 8700K has 158,6 Single Core and 1429 Multi Core. SO around +40% in well multithreaded applications.
Here the graph:
https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/intel_i5_9600k_and_i7_9700k_review/7
- Herman Mcpootis and XR6
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5 minutes ago, Vectraat said:
Suddenly I feel that jumping out of my 14th story condo window may be a better option then to continue reading this thread.
Yeah, I'd feel the same in your situation.
You're between a Rock and a Hard place.
What I'd recommend, regardless of your choice:
Get a CPU with at least 12 Threads. DO NOT get a 6 or 8 Thread CPU. (if it isn't a stop gap CPU to survive for a month or two to upgrade)
(meaning at least 6 Cores and SMT2, however that is called, enabled).
And you have keep in mind that the upcoming stuff from "the dark side" looks pretty good, so you will have regret if you buy it right now.
Question is:
What do you really want. Do you want to gamble with a good System right now or do you want to gamble and prepare for the upcoming products?
Do you want to be able to just put in the new stuff without too much pain, if it proves to be as good as AMD said on Computex and E3??That's what you have to decide...
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Glad to see it working and putting a beautiful case to good use for the next 10 years or more.
Have fun with the System!
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1 minute ago, Vectraat said:
What I'm buying at the store is final. No swapping, no upgrades etc., as the store is over an hour away from me and I won't have time. I'm entering some sick degen no-life status once I receive that computer.
You can order stuff online, then the guy from FedEX or UPS delivers it and you don't have to drive for an hour.
You might also want to check the price online vs. local store. Often Local is far more expensive.
But it really is a bad situation as it might be possible to get similar performance to the 8700 for 25-50% less money...
And also the possibility of PCIe 4.0 support (only on X570)
Replacing the CPU isn't as bad as you think, if you have a decent, not too big Heatsink. Such as a Noctua NH-U12S.
Just a screwdriver, remove two screws and use a lever.
It is recommended that the Computer is on its side so that gravity inserts the CPU into the socket, not you...
So my recommendation would be a Ryzen 2600 (or 2700)Either an MSI B450 Gaming PRO Carbon AC or the Tomahawk
2x good quality DDR4-3000 or 3200.
And the Rest from your System.With this System you get a decent Game PC that you can upgrade in the future, when you really want to grab a Ryzen 3700 or 3800.
Or might even want to swap it for a 12 Core 3900X. The thing is: You can, if you want. And see that it works...
With the new AMD CPUs beeing this close, its a high probability that you will regret getting an Intel when the CPUs are only half as good as AMD said they are...
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1 hour ago, Vectraat said:
Ugh, I don't know anymore.
Then go AMD!
But do NOT get a CPU without SMT!
Here you have a Video about an older i5 vs. Ryzen 1600:
The i5 has some Problems with some games due to lack of Threads.
It will be the same with 6C/6T CPUs!
Because it was the same with 1C/1T and 2C/2T CPUs.
It was the Same with 2C -> 4C
It is the same with 4C/4T vs.4C/8T CPUs.
Why should it be different with 6C/6T vs. 6C/12T?
I don't see any reason why that "rule of thumb" should change.1 hour ago, Vectraat said:I think I'm all burnt out on trying to pick the best build for the $ (with the exception of ignoring AMD that is).
Well, there is also the Timegap Build solution.
You can get some cheap CPU right now to survive for 2-6 Weeks (and you might need it anyway to flash the BIOS or ask the shop to do it for you)...
But DO NOT GET THE 9600, if you can get the 8700 for a similar price!
THe 8700 is the better choice.
Even with all those security flaws that Intel has to fight with (and mitigation cost a bit of Performance)...
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2 hours ago, Vectraat said:
There is also another Option:
Get the cheapest CPU you are comfortable with for AM4 that the store has (and works with your Motherboard) and use that for a bit more than 2 Weeks and replace the CPU then.It might sound weird but from what we do know right now AM4 has a better upgrade path and might evensupport the 4000 series that is said to come next year.
And you've seen the pace AMD has started with. Compare Ryzen 1k -> 2k -> 3k.
There was always 5-10% more - at mimimum. Even from 1k -> 2k (ie 1700 -> 2700)
So that leaves you with 3 Choices:
a) go with Ryzen 3000, buy a small CPU (either Athlon 200GE or Ryzen 1200, maybe Ryzen 1300X), upgrade ASAP. An Athlon 200GE is around 55€ on Newegg Canada. You should be able to sell that for at least 30€, probably 40-45€ - and also mention that you can use it to flash 400 Series Boards.
b) speculate on Ryzen 4000 series, upgrade next year when its released, get a decent mid range/cheapish CPU such as the Ryzen 2600 or 2700 and upgrade next year.
c) stick with Intel, though no upgrade path. You get what you buy and the next generation is probably incompatible to the Socket - same as the 8700 was to 100 and 200 series Chipset Boards! For no reason as the Socket is physically the same and people were able to hack the BIOS of 100 and 200 Series and there is also a Video from Linus with 8700 and 7700 on the same Board.
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4 Cores are dead.
LGA1151, even the v2 probably not very upgradable....
I don't get why a 60€ CPU cost the same as a 100€ CPU in India.
Bad AMD Importers???
31 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:Intel's just doing 10nm refreshes, iirc.
Naa, those are mobile only.
Nothing for desktop. The last roadmap looked bleak. Or rather really bad.
As in nothing under 14nm in the next year or two.
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16 minutes ago, BiColaTesla said:
and can you suggest me lga 2011 socket processor for gaming.
No, beceuse your system is fine. Even by todays standards its a pretty fine system that should last you another year or two.
You don't need to worry, just try it. If it doesn't work (wich there is no reason for it to), you can still think about upgrading.
Another LGA2011 CPU isn't a good idea because they are still on the expensive side.
The only thing you should do is grab another 2 Sticks of memory, if you happen to find some really cheap deals for that (30-40€ or so).
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1 hour ago, KlassischerFeldsalat said:
I have 1 of those cards.
I'm currently having a 500 psu, and when I do certain benchmarks, it says in the top left corner "Limit" and then Temps, etc and also Power and Power is mostly the "bottleneck", thats why I was asking. So my psu is enough?
That's why the GPU Clock is limited. And Power doesn't mean PSU it means the set Limit for the chip is reached and the GPU clocks down to not go over that.
What PSU do you have?
500W sounds reasonable for the system. If you have issues with PSU you have random shutdowns, sometimes reboots under certain situations...
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1 hour ago, Gazza732 said:
Ok so I'm planning and building a PC for a friend who will mainly be playing Fortnite.
Can you wait ~2 Weeks or so?
Because you can get similar performance for lower cost...
1 hour ago, Gazza732 said:I've been out of the loop for a few years since I made my last PC so want to make sure it will achieve his goals. He wants to play Fortnite on maximum settings and get 150fps+ for his 144hz monitor. However, he may play other games too naturally.
I don't think that is necessarily possible as max. Settings are very demanding.
With mid-high settings it shouldn't be a problem with many systems to get that far...
1 hour ago, Gazza732 said:The build list so far is:
- - Intel I7 9700k
- - Asus ROG Strix Z390E
- - 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4-3000
- - WD Blue 500GB M.2 SSD
- - EVGA GeForce RTX 2060
- - and then the cooler, case and PSU.
Will this be sufficient? Overkill? Not enough?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
- wait and look at the upcoming Ryzen 3700X or 3800X. That should be similarly priced, also 8 cores but SMT - and also have similar Performance
- I'm not too big of a fan of ASUS since my X370-F Strix. Granted its an AMD Board but it consumes 15-20W more than for example the Biostar X370GT7 or MSI B450I.
- That looks good
- I find S-ATA m.2 Drives kinda pointless. If you want it cheap/SATA get a 2,5" one. If you want m.2 look at NVMe ones. And don't forget the Heatsinking...
- You might also want to look at the upcoming RX 5700 or the "SUPER"!!!111 Card...
- Where are you located, what's available??
- XR6 and Princess Luna
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What USB Devices do you use? Any (cheap/old) USB Enclosures?
In some times they might hinder the Boot.Even if its new, its possible that something is not right.
But I'd start with removing and inserting the Memory...
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Good old Question:
If you build a PC; do you want to use it as long as possible (ie 5-10 Years) or do you want it now and don't care what happens in 3-5 years? -
6 hours ago, lyonz said:
Hi, I currently have https://www.newegg.com/antec-true-power-trio-tp3-550-550w/p/N82E16817371002 PSU. And I just got a new gigabyte RX 580 8GB and I realized it has a single 1 x 8 pin input. My question is can I use an adapter to use this new card?
No, that PSU is almost 15 Years old!
Its around the 2005/6 time when it was made.
And its made for that time.
We have more than 10 years later, the way components want the power changed.
That PSU is not made to be used with modern components. Its made for use with a Radeon X850 and Geforce 6800 and Athlon 64 as well as Pentium 4 CPUs.
And also the Label is wrong. The PSU has no Rail -> no OCP.
I have one myself (though in parts)...
And its loud as hell too.
Really not recommended. Pls replace the PSU!
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On 6/15/2019 at 4:55 PM, jonnyGURU said:
If Cooler Master can sell an 80 PLUS White, 230V Only, entry level, fixed cable PSU with LLC and D2D, I think it's safe to say DF is dead.
Listan was first with dirt cheap, 230VAC Only, entry level fixed cable PSU with LLC and D2D
https://geizhals.de/?cat=gehps&asd=on&asuch=Performance X#gh_filterbox
OK; just dirt cheap for an 80plus Goldish PSU, but still battles with Pure Power and your CX on the Price but with slightly higher efficiency - and lower fan RPM (my 750W goes down to 350rpm - WITHOUT bearing noise).
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8 hours ago, KEIN NEIN said:
I am assuming you find a good deal on a double-forward/ACRF PSU, and initially I was refering to PSUs for gaming/WS pcs as you can see below.
But you made me formulate my question, are they worth considering overall? even if you are planning on builing a basic computer?
It depends on the System and Wattage.
For 400 and 500W, ACRF is fine. Wich means mid range Gaming PC for example Ryzen 5/7 with an RX5x0.
Navi is unknown at this point. On the nV side I'd say 150W, maybe 200W tops.
If you want higher end and OC, you might want to look at LLC-Resonant mode.Or rather:
Pure Power 11/400W is just 50€.
IF you need a VEGA, a Bitfenix Formula or Whisper M or be quiet Straight Power is recomended (650w Bitfenix, 750W be quiet due to Connection and so on) -
12 hours ago, Locar said:
Hey im building a new pc soon and I want to make sure all my parts are good any thoughts what should I change? Keep in mind I have a budget of $500
The PSU is pretty bad. The WLAN Adaptor looks expensive, though with Antenna it might be good.
Otherwise its not too bad, you did your work.
There is one thing you have to change:
Get better Memory. If you are able to, get another stick later, but you should look at least at DDR4-2666, if possible 3000.The best Way to go at it, in my Oppionion, is to get something where you can replace the CPU for something better and there is no way around AMD right now.
The 9100F might look OK right now, but you can't upgrade it, so you have to throw away the Motherboard with the next new Architecture and the stuff right now probably won't move in price much. So not much here...On the AMD side you have upcoming products. Maybe even the 4000 series wich might come next year might work in a good B450 Board...
And how good something like the 9100F and Ryzen 1600 is, you can see here:
TL;DR:
When the Intel is faster, both are well over 100fps. We're talking about very playable framerates.HOWEVER: when the 1600 is faster, the i5-7600K (wich roughly equals the 9100F) really struggles. Noticable, sub 60fps!
For example Battlefield 5: 50fps Intel vs 89fps minimum 1600.
The Division 2 (Ultra): 60fps min for the 4C/4T CPU vs. 79/121 fps.
Showing 150fps vs. 120fps is pointless, that's not important. Both are very playable. 50fps (min) vs. 89fps however is important as that shows one CPU having no Problems with the Application, the other is struggling - and you feel/notice it.
The Video @Herman Mcpootis posted earlier is the continuation of that.
...and then there is the thing coming on the 7th...
Buttom Line:
You have two options:a) get something now for the money you have with the Plan to upgrade it within this year to the upcoming (6 Core) CPU wich is said to cost around 200€ minimum
b) go with either @Herman Mcpootis or @BigRom builds.
Herman's has a slightly better PSU, BigRom's a slightly better PSU. Throw a coin, both are fine.
But stay away from 4C/4T CPUs, if you do not plan on replacing them when you have a bit money!!
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On 6/14/2019 at 9:16 PM, eman1000 said:
Hi, my friend is looking for a modest build that can run 1080p 60fps at medium settings. He doesn't have a defined budget but the lower the better. Thanks in advance.
Can you wait 2-3 Weeks?
On the 7th there will be something interesting available...11 hours ago, eman1000 said:Thanks for the input. I was looking into it and found that the 9400f actually outperforms the 1600 in gaming benchmarks.
Granted the 1600 surpassed intel in productivity work, but my friend has no use for this capability.
And there is a Scheduler update in the Works (not active yet), that increases the Performance and the "Intel is faster in Gaming" might not be true much longer.
With the 1600, wich is rather cheap, you can upgrade to this new CPU, with the other one probably not...
Also the 6 Cores without SMT (or 4 with the 9100) might be a Problem in the Future - same as it was with the E8x00 back in the Core 2 Era, who bought that instead of a Quad core. Or the Dual Cores a year before that...
Same thing here, one might look faster now but in the future its likely that it will change.
- Vejnemojnen and eman1000
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8 hours ago, KEIN NEIN said:
So are they worth considering for any gaming-workstation PC? Or should you opt for half-bridge/full-bridge + LLC instead.
Depends on the Budget and price of the PSU.
For 50€ and less -> maybe.
For 100€ -> absolutel not.
Also depends what you are doing with your PC and what Component its using...
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What's there to say?
We know that the Basis will be Zen2 and Navi - for both consoles. But besides that?! Not much really...Sony is hyping the SSD of the PS5, someone mentioned 8 Cores somewhere. and the usual buzzword stuff such as 8K Output and so on.
M$ is saying something about 4 times the Performance, 120fps...
Phil Spencer summarized it here at the time pretty well:
Its just not figured out (yet), its too early to say...
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Exactly.
You need at least a good quality Gold unit to get a PSU that's better than what's already inside..
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1 minute ago, cj09beira said:
problem is that 4 cores will be too little for an new apu, they need more than that at the very least 6 cores, and they dont really have a good way of doing that without going directly to 8 cores, adding a gpu next to it on the same die would be too expensive, keeping it in chiplets is much better, then all they need is a new io die which by now 14nm is cheap,
for the gpu die they can use the smaller discreet gpu they will make as long as they prepare for it,
the pcie limitation is a silly limitation hopefully this time it will have the full 32 lanes
Problem:
That would be way too expensive to manufacture...But lets wait and see how Renoir really looks like. And if it has more than 4 Cores..
is this safe on a 4-pin?
in Power Supplies
Posted
Shouldn't be a Problem for CPU and VRM.
However the 4pin Connector it is.
With 6A its 144W, with 9A its 216W maximum. That is really really close.
And I'd assume that the CPU might be around the 200W Ballpark, maybe even 250W...
The old Phenoms can deal with rather high voltages and 1,5V is something you see for example on a 1800X at Stock...
The Russians from IXBT Labs IIRC did a Review of that a long long time ago, sadly the Site went down and I don't have a Backup either. It was an awesome Article, even 10 Year later. And I really really loved to link it...