VRM

[Gorge]

Hey I have a gigabyte GA-H110-D3A  motherboard, are my VRMs good?  Also how high can they get? I’m having a ton of trouble trying to figure this out 

thanks!

[Electronics Wizardy]

Not great vms, but its a cheap board and you can't oc. Dont worry about vrms.

 

VRMS are a combination of mostly inductors, caps, and mosfets. FOr this board, I wouldn't worry at all about them.

[Jurrunio]

whether it's good depends on what you plan on doing with it

[Gorge]

16 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Not great vms, but its a cheap board and you can't oc. Dont worry about vrms.

 

VRMS are a combination of mostly inductors, caps, and mosfets. FOr this board, I wouldn't worry at all about them.

 OK thank you!  Also what about the capacitor’s? Are they solid state? I’m sorry, I just have no clue 

[Gorge]

20 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Not great vms, but its a cheap board and you can't oc. Dont worry about vrms.

 

VRMS are a combination of mostly inductors, caps, and mosfets. FOr this board, I wouldn't worry at all about them.

Also, is the board reliable in general? Because it is advertised as a “ ultra durable”

[mariushm]

They're not "solid state" ... no such thing. They're polymer capacitors, which are better than regular (electrolytic) capacitors.

Pretty much everyone uses polymer capacitors these days because they prices for them went down.

 

The VRM is probably OK, for this type of motherboard it doesn't really matter.  There's minimal (if any) overclocking, and most of the processors it supports have 35w , 47w, 51w , 54w, 65w TDP ... they're basically processors which consume less than 50-70 watts of power. Even a vrm without heatsinks and with crappy mosfets would be capable of powering these processors without stress.

 

"ultra durable" is not something about reliability, it's a branding, like MSI's "military class" bullshit... it was Gigabyte's way of advertising at some point that they used circuit boards with thicker copper on them, and that they put more ESD protections  and other things that now are common from other manufacturers and pretty much standard everywhere else.

[Gorge]

1 minute ago, mariushm said:

They're not "solid state" ... no such thing. They're polymer capacitors, which are better than regular (electrolytic) capacitors.

Pretty much everyone uses polymer capacitors these days because they prices for them went down.

 

The VRM is probably OK, for this type of motherboard it doesn't really matter.  There's minimal (if any) overclocking, and most of the processors it supports have 35w , 47w, 51w , 54w, 65w TDP ... they're basically processors which consume less than 50-70 watts of power. Even a vrm without heatsinks and with crappy mosfets would be capable of powering these processors without stress.

 

 I’m actually running an i7 7700k at 4.20 GHZ  just fine, with a 91 watt TDP.  Also, like are the capacitor is with water in them? Prone to explode? 

[Gorge]

Just now, Gorge said:

 I’m actually running an i7 7700k at 4.20 GHZ  just fine, with a 91 watt TDP.  Also, like are the capacitor is with water in them? Prone to explode? 

 

2 minutes ago, mariushm said:

They're not "solid state" ... no such thing. They're polymer capacitors, which are better than regular (electrolytic) capacitors.

Pretty much everyone uses polymer capacitors these days because they prices for them went down.

 

The VRM is probably OK, for this type of motherboard it doesn't really matter.  There's minimal (if any) overclocking, and most of the processors it supports have 35w , 47w, 51w , 54w, 65w TDP ... they're basically processors which consume less than 50-70 watts of power. Even a vrm without heatsinks and with crappy mosfets would be capable of powering these processors without stress.

 

 I don’t have any cooling on my VRM

[Electronics Wizardy]

11 minutes ago, Gorge said:

 

 I don’t have any cooling on my VRM

what cpu do you have? It will probably never be a issue.

[Gorge]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

what cpu do you have? It will probably never be a issue.

I7 7700k 

 

[Gorge]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

what cpu do you have? It will probably never be a issue.

 Thank you by the way

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 minute ago, Gorge said:

I7 7700k 

 

Then you can't overclock it, the vrm will handle that chip stock just dine.

[mariushm]

You have a heatsink, which takes the heat produced by the VRM and spreads it across a bigger surface. It's fine.

Yes, your cpu is one with higher TDP than what this board really was designed for but it will handle it just fine.

If you don't believe me, put the fingers on that heatsink and if you can't hold your fingers there for more than 5 seconds or so, you may want to get a fan blowing some air on it. 

 

No, capacitors are not prone to explode.

There's no capacitors with water in them. There's electrolytic capacitors which use a chemical inside that's like a paste - some of these pastes can be more gel like, some can use a higher percentage of water... but none have just water in them.

If a capacitor is abused (higher voltage than maximum it's designed to handle, too high current bursts, other things), tiny portions of that chemical material can be damaged and in the process some gas is released. The capacitor's performance degrades a tiny bit, but a very small percentage - it will take a lot of damage before the capacitor goes bd enough that it would go "outside specs".

Over time, if often the capacitor is abused, the gas can accumulate and eventually the top (where there is a pressure release mechanism in the form of those engravings in the aluminum can) can break and the gas is released. In extreme cases the top may "pop" but at no point you'll have water or liquids come out of a capacitor.

 

Polymer (solid) capacitors no longer use electolyte like electrolytic capacitors, they use a dry material. They're also more resilient to damage, so they have a longer lifetime. You can tell a capacitor is polymer type (in large majority of cases) because these don't have those pressure release cuts at the top and typically there's no plastic sleeve on the capacitors.

 

Some motherboards still have electrolytic capacitors in the onboard sound card circuit because supposedly electrolytic capacitors make the sound more "natural" ... you can see those on your board colored in yellow. They're fine, they'll never explode. They're used in a circuit with very low voltages, and very low currents. 

 

 

 

[Gorge]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

Then you can't overclock it, the vrm will handle that chip stock just dine.

 OK thanks, also our my  capacitor is good? Also how do you know what you’re talking about? 

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, Gorge said:

 OK thanks, also our my  capacitor is good? Also how do you know what you’re talking about? 

I don't know the model of the capactor, but most are fine, and will outlast the usable life of the computer.

 

Basically every board has vrms that are fine for a stock cpu, if your not overclocking you really don't have to worry, esp with a quadcore.

[Gorge]

1 minute ago, mariushm said:

You have a heatsink, which takes the heat produced by the VRM and spreads it across a bigger surface. It's fine.

Yes, your cpu is one with higher TDP than what this board really was designed for but it will handle it just fine.

If you don't believe me, put the fingers on that heatsink and if you can't hold your fingers there for more than 5 seconds or so, you may want to get a fan blowing some air on it. 

 

No, capacitors are not prone to explode.

There's no capacitors with water in them. There's electrolytic capacitors which use a chemical inside that's like a paste - some of these pastes can be more gel like, some can use a higher percentage of water... but none have just water in them.

If a capacitor is abused (higher voltage than maximum it's designed to handle, too high current bursts, other things), tiny portions of that chemical material can be damaged and in the process some gas is released. The capacitor's performance degrades a tiny bit, but a very small percentage - it will take a lot of damage before the capacitor goes bd enough that it would go "outside specs".

Over time, if often the capacitor is abused, the gas can accumulate and eventually the top (where there is a pressure release mechanism in the form of those engravings in the aluminum can) can break and the gas is released. In extreme cases the top may "pop" but at no point you'll have water or liquids come out of a capacitor.

 

Polymer (solid) capacitors no longer use electolyte like electrolytic capacitors, they use a dry material. They're also more resilient to damage, so they have a longer lifetime. You can tell a capacitor is polymer type (in large majority of cases) because these don't have those pressure release cuts at the top and typically there's no plastic sleeve on the capacitors.

 

Some motherboards still have electrolytic capacitors in the onboard sound card circuit because supposedly electrolytic capacitors make the sound more "natural" ... you can see those on your board colored in yellow. They're fine, they'll never explode. They're used in a circuit with very low voltages, and very low currents. 

 

 

 

 OK seriously thank you so so much this is very helpful I really mean it!!!  I appreciate you took the time to do this!  What is my motherboard fine having such a high TDP on my I seven? My CPU does Ron very hard like 85°C during the summer 

[Gorge]

2 minutes ago, Gorge said:

 OK seriously thank you so so much this is very helpful I really mean it!!!  I appreciate you took the time to do this!  What is my motherboard fine having such a high TDP on my I seven? My CPU does Ron very hard like 85°C during the summer 

3 minutes ago, Gorge said:

 OK seriously thank you so so much this is very helpful I really mean it!!!  I appreciate you took the time to do this!  What is my motherboard fine having such a high TDP on my I seven? My CPU does Ron very hard like 85°C during the summer 

 If you were me, would you be concerned? Because I’m too lazy to open my case and feel the heat sink  Lol But I do know that I’m not getting any frame drop or blue screens, the PC does run perfectly knock on woodBut I do know that I’m not getting any frame drop or blue screens, the PC does run perfectly knock on wood

[Gorge]

4 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

I don't know the model of the capactor, but most are fine, and will outlast the usable life of the computer.

 

Basically every board has vrms that are fine for a stock cpu, if your not overclocking you really don't have to worry, esp with a quadcore.

 OK thank you so much! 

[mariushm]

15 minutes ago, Gorge said:

 OK seriously thank you so so much this is very helpful I really mean it!!!  I appreciate you took the time to do this!  What is my motherboard fine having such a high TDP on my I seven? My CPU does Ron very hard like 85°C during the summer 

Your motherboard doesn't. Your CPU does.  It has a 91w TDP rating - that means Thermal Design Power , or Thermal Design Point ... in a simplified way, it means that the processor you have will not produce more than 91 watts of heat, no matter what, so a computer manufacturer can pair the processor with any kind of cooler, as long as the cooler is designed to handle at least 91 watts of heat.

 

A processor can run at high temperatures, how high it varies on the manufacturing process and other things. For that generation of processors, the safe threshold is at around 100 degrees Celsius - if you reach that point, your processor will most likely turn itself off.  Before reaching that point, it will automatically reduce the frequency of various cores in order to reduce the amount of heat produced, and as consequence cool itself down.

85 Celsius is a safe temperature.

 

The VRM is designed to function at higher temperatures  (actually i'm wording it wrong, it's not designed... it's made using components which CAN function at higher temperatures, doesn't mean it should/must run at high temperatures)... the most hot parts are the mosfets (chips under the heatsink) and these are typically designed to function properly even at up to 125..150 degrees celsius, but most motherboard makers put protections which shut down the circuit at around 110 degrees.

However, it's generally not a good idea to keep this whole circuit at temperatures above 90-100 degrees celsius ... it gets technical and boring but basically above such temperatures the circuit board can degrade (over a period of time) 

So it's worth keeping that circuit cooler hence my advice - if you can't hold the fingers on the heatsink for longer than 5s that means the heatsink is probably at over 65-70 degrees celsius, so the chips under the heatsink are probably at 80 degrees or higher. It's still fine and safe, but adding a bit of air flow over that heatsink wouldn't hurt.

 

 

[Gorge]

24 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Your motherboard doesn't. Your CPU does.  It has a 91w TDP rating - that means Thermal Design Power , or Thermal Design Point ... in a simplified way, it means that the processor you have will not produce more than 91 watts of heat, no matter what, so a computer manufacturer can pair the processor with any kind of cooler, as long as the cooler is designed to handle at least 91 watts of heat.

 

A processor can run at high temperatures, how high it varies on the manufacturing process and other things. For that generation of processors, the safe threshold is at around 100 degrees Celsius - if you reach that point, your processor will most likely turn itself off.  Before reaching that point, it will automatically reduce the frequency of various cores in order to reduce the amount of heat produced, and as consequence cool itself down.

85 Celsius is a safe temperature.

 

The VRM is designed to function at higher temperatures  (actually i'm wording it wrong, it's not designed... it's made using components which CAN function at higher temperatures, doesn't mean it should/must run at high temperatures)... the most hot parts are the mosfets (chips under the heatsink) and these are typically designed to function properly even at up to 125..150 degrees celsius, but most motherboard makers put protections which shut down the circuit at around 110 degrees.

However, it's generally not a good idea to keep this whole circuit at temperatures above 90-100 degrees celsius ... it gets technical and boring but basically above such temperatures the circuit board can degrade (over a period of time) 

So it's worth keeping that circuit cooler hence my advice - if you can't hold the fingers on the heatsink for longer than 5s that means the heatsink is probably at over 65-70 degrees celsius, so the chips under the heatsink are probably at 80 degrees or higher. It's still fine and safe, but adding a bit of air flow over that heatsink wouldn't hurt.

 

 

 Very good advice thank you,  so since my component can safely runs so hard, should I not worry about it?  Also,  should I devolt  my CPU?  And will it work with my motherboard? Also is it a reliable bored? I really appreciate it thank you  The reason I’m asking so much is because you seem like you are smart as hell and really no your shit 

[Gorge]

27 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Your motherboard doesn't. Your CPU does.  It has a 91w TDP rating - that means Thermal Design Power , or Thermal Design Point ... in a simplified way, it means that the processor you have will not produce more than 91 watts of heat, no matter what, so a computer manufacturer can pair the processor with any kind of cooler, as long as the cooler is designed to handle at least 91 watts of heat.

 

A processor can run at high temperatures, how high it varies on the manufacturing process and other things. For that generation of processors, the safe threshold is at around 100 degrees Celsius - if you reach that point, your processor will most likely turn itself off.  Before reaching that point, it will automatically reduce the frequency of various cores in order to reduce the amount of heat produced, and as consequence cool itself down.

85 Celsius is a safe temperature.

 

The VRM is designed to function at higher temperatures  (actually i'm wording it wrong, it's not designed... it's made using components which CAN function at higher temperatures, doesn't mean it should/must run at high temperatures)... the most hot parts are the mosfets (chips under the heatsink) and these are typically designed to function properly even at up to 125..150 degrees celsius, but most motherboard makers put protections which shut down the circuit at around 110 degrees.

However, it's generally not a good idea to keep this whole circuit at temperatures above 90-100 degrees celsius ... it gets technical and boring but basically above such temperatures the circuit board can degrade (over a period of time) 

So it's worth keeping that circuit cooler hence my advice - if you can't hold the fingers on the heatsink for longer than 5s that means the heatsink is probably at over 65-70 degrees celsius, so the chips under the heatsink are probably at 80 degrees or higher. It's still fine and safe, but adding a bit of air flow over that heatsink wouldn't hurt.

 

 

Also my cooler is the hyper 212 led. Is this good enough? I will never oc 

[Gorge]

33 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Your motherboard doesn't. Your CPU does.  It has a 91w TDP rating - that means Thermal Design Power , or Thermal Design Point ... in a simplified way, it means that the processor you have will not produce more than 91 watts of heat, no matter what, so a computer manufacturer can pair the processor with any kind of cooler, as long as the cooler is designed to handle at least 91 watts of heat.

 

A processor can run at high temperatures, how high it varies on the manufacturing process and other things. For that generation of processors, the safe threshold is at around 100 degrees Celsius - if you reach that point, your processor will most likely turn itself off.  Before reaching that point, it will automatically reduce the frequency of various cores in order to reduce the amount of heat produced, and as consequence cool itself down.

85 Celsius is a safe temperature.

 

The VRM is designed to function at higher temperatures  (actually i'm wording it wrong, it's not designed... it's made using components which CAN function at higher temperatures, doesn't mean it should/must run at high temperatures)... the most hot parts are the mosfets (chips under the heatsink) and these are typically designed to function properly even at up to 125..150 degrees celsius, but most motherboard makers put protections which shut down the circuit at around 110 degrees.

However, it's generally not a good idea to keep this whole circuit at temperatures above 90-100 degrees celsius ... it gets technical and boring but basically above such temperatures the circuit board can degrade (over a period of time) 

So it's worth keeping that circuit cooler hence my advice - if you can't hold the fingers on the heatsink for longer than 5s that means the heatsink is probably at over 65-70 degrees celsius, so the chips under the heatsink are probably at 80 degrees or higher. It's still fine and safe, but adding a bit of air flow over that heatsink wouldn't hurt.

 

 

 Also, how long do you think my motherboard the last under these extreme conditions? If I were to say “screw it I’m going to upgrade in a few years anyway“  and just let my CPU Ron at 80°?  Because technically wouldn’t the VRM and CPU throttle before they actually get damaged? So no need to worry? 

[mariushm]

stop quoting my full text, if there's no other posting between my message and yours

 

read my answers more thoroughly, i say something and you understand something else.

 

I said it's safe for your cpu to work at that 85 degrees celsius 24/7 , it won't degrade, it won't go bad etc etc but it's a temperature very close to where the cpu would start to reduce it's frequencies or refuse to run its cores at the highest possible frequency in order to stay cool.

 

should you devolt your cpu?  I don't know. if the motherboard allows it, it wouldn't hurt to experiment, it wouldn't damage anything.

 

Also, how long do you think my motherboard the last under these extreme conditions?

As long as the VRM temperature is under 100 degrees celsius or thereabouts, the motherboard has the potential to last for decades.

 

If I were to say “screw it I’m going to upgrade in a few years anyway“  and just let my CPU Ron at 80°?  

The cpu doesn't matter. CPU sits in a socket, cpu is cooled by by cooler... cpu won't care that it runs at 80 degrees 24/7 for months or years. Motherboard won't care, under the socket temperature will probably barely reach 60 degrees.

The motherboard VRM ... temperatures above 100 degrees celsius on the VRM (i mean under the heatsink on the mosfet chips) can degrade the motherboard enough that it would be a significant effect after around 4-6 months (if running nearly 24/7 at such temperatures) 

If the temperatures are reasonable, let's say under 80-90c, then you'll replace the system way sooner than the time where you'd notice any effect on the motherboard - years and years of 24/7 use.

 

Because technically wouldn’t the VRM and CPU throttle before they actually get damaged? So no need to worry?

 

Some budget  / value motherboards with minimal thermal management will run things hotter than normal with the idea "it will survive for more than 3 years, the warranty period, and that's enough, no need to go overboard with heatsinks that would add pennies to the cost of motherboard and add pennies to the shipping costs due to extra weight"

 

Yours is adequately equipped to last for long time.

[Gorge]

9 hours ago, mariushm said:

They're not "solid state" ... no such thing. They're polymer capacitors, which are better than regular (electrolytic) capacitors.

Pretty much everyone uses polymer capacitors these days because they prices for them went down.

 

The VRM is probably OK, for this type of motherboard it doesn't really matter.  There's minimal (if any) overclocking, and most of the processors it supports have 35w , 47w, 51w , 54w, 65w TDP ... they're basically processors which consume less than 50-70 watts of power. Even a vrm without heatsinks and with crappy mosfets would be capable of powering these processors without stress.

 

"ultra durable" is not something about reliability, it's a branding, like MSI's "military class" bullshit... it was Gigabyte's way of advertising at some point that they used circuit boards with thicker copper on them, and that they put more ESD protections  and other things that now are common from other manufacturers and pretty much standard everywhere else.

OK so basically what you’re trying to say is my motherboard is equipped to run a very long time, because it has the right thermal throttling points and right thermal components? Also, you’re saying that it will automatically throttle itself before it becomes an issue? (The 100c) point  or should I manually select the throttle in points, if I can bet is to a lower value? 

 But basically is it set up OK the way it is? Running at these temperatures to last? 

 Including VRM? 

 

[Gorge]

10 hours ago, mariushm said:

stop quoting my full text, if there's no other posting between my message and yours

 

read my answers more thoroughly, i say something and you understand something else.

 

I said it's safe for your cpu to work at that 85 degrees celsius 24/7 , it won't degrade, it won't go bad etc etc but it's a temperature very close to where the cpu would start to reduce it's frequencies or refuse to run its cores at the highest possible frequency in order to stay cool.

 

should you devolt your cpu?  I don't know. if the motherboard allows it, it wouldn't hurt to experiment, it wouldn't damage anything.

 

Also, how long do you think my motherboard the last under these extreme conditions?

As long as the VRM temperature is under 100 degrees celsius or thereabouts, the motherboard has the potential to last for decades.

 

If I were to say “screw it I’m going to upgrade in a few years anyway“  and just let my CPU Ron at 80°?  

The cpu doesn't matter. CPU sits in a socket, cpu is cooled by by cooler... cpu won't care that it runs at 80 degrees 24/7 for months or years. Motherboard won't care, under the socket temperature will probably barely reach 60 degrees.

The motherboard VRM ... temperatures above 100 degrees celsius on the VRM (i mean under the heatsink on the mosfet chips) can degrade the motherboard enough that it would be a significant effect after around 4-6 months (if running nearly 24/7 at such temperatures) 

If the temperatures are reasonable, let's say under 80-90c, then you'll replace the system way sooner than the time where you'd notice any effect on the motherboard - years and years of 24/7 use.

 

Because technically wouldn’t the VRM and CPU throttle before they actually get damaged? So no need to worry?

 

Some budget  / value motherboards with minimal thermal management will run things hotter than normal with the idea "it will survive for more than 3 years, the warranty period, and that's enough, no need to go overboard with heatsinks that would add pennies to the cost of motherboard and add pennies to the shipping costs due to extra weight"

 

Yours is adequately equipped to last for long time.

So if it is  equipped to last a long time then should I not pay attention to the thermals because the would be throttled down for me? Because my motherboard has better cooling components? Thanks btw