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Long term platform indecision

Hi,

 

MY ACTUAL QUESTIONS FOR THE FORUM:

1. Do you know if/believe Zen2 will be performing equally well to intel in high fps gaming (240hz, 1080p)?

2. Will Zen2 run fine on X470? And will i be able to run the Zen2 refresh as well? (Regarding claimed Am4 support until 2020)

3. Will there be another Intel CPU Generation on Z390 (and thereby Z370)?

4. Which of my options listed below would YOU go for regarding backstory, budget etc?

 

Backstory:
I use my PC mainly for overwatch (80%) on a 240Hz Monitor. I study mech. engineering and
do quite some simulation and calculation. Most of the time i do all the productivity stuff in
university on my laptop (since it has a much better CPU than my pc) and use my pc only for
gaming. Around christmas it is finally time to upgrade my PC (everything except gpu). Main
focus will stay gaming. But, as my PC will be much more powerful than my laptop by this time, i want to do more productivity on it as well. Since i dont (want to) upgrade my PC frequently i want a platform on which i will be able to game as long as possible and get more lifetime by just upgrading the cpu without having to upgrade anything else. I've read actually everything i
could find, followed all new publications and reviews but still, i cant decide which platform i
wanna go for.


Intel: - clearly better high fps platform right now
- worse efficiency than amd
- i dont like intel (for beeing so restrictive until they have serious competition in form of
amd, still cant deliver 10nm whereas amd is going for 7nm)
- better ipc, higher frequency
- disgustingly expensive (at least in europe)
AMD:- superior value
- longer lasting socket support (at least claimed by AMD)

- Maybe even equal performance to Intel when Zen2 is out while still having more cores and much better efficiency

 

Current PC:

Fx8350 at 4,2 (i know, its disgusting)

16gb

Gtx970

 

My options with all the tradeoffs i'm willing to do:

- 2700x/X470 live with not stable 240fps in Overwatch until Zen2 is out and afterwards hopefully still have the ability to use Zen2 refresh on the same mobo

- 9600k/Z390 (since equally expensive in europe than 8600k and delivers nearly equal high fps gaming experience to i7/i9) and upgrade to better CPU 8700k/9700k/9900k when they are less expensive for better productivity power

- just waiting for a really good offer and go for i7/i9 early next year as prices will usually fall after christmas

 

Budget:

- around 400€ for the CPU

- it's not that limited, i just dont wont to throw it away without a good reason

 

Things to consider:

- i like AMDs approach on giving Intel a nice competition, i like the value their lineup is providing

- i don't like Intels approach on milking customers (600€ for a CPU that cant do more than a 300€ 2700x except for gaming??, chipsets are outdated faster than you can decide which mobo fits best for you) only because there was no competitor

- nevertheless i'm fine with buying their CPUs IF it is the best long term option and IF it suits best my needs. In short: sympathizing with one manufacturer will never lead me to buying their products. I make rational decisions

- no matter which CPU i buy, i will overclock what my cooling solution (360AIO) lets me do while maintaining reasonable quiet noise levels

 

 

 

Sorry for my bad english?

I hope you can help me.

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1) Unknown, possible but unknown

2) Should be with a BIOS update

3) Unknown, Icelake may need new boards.

4) As is stands intel is the clear winner in FPS as you noted, AMD is a pretty solid option as well, just not the same numbers

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I'll have to put my vote down for am4. It's pretty likely that Intel will be stalling out and that AMD will catch up with Zen 2, if their new epyc server chips are anything to go by.

I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

Primary PC:

i7 8086k (won) - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Skill Trident Z RGB - WD SN750 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - Hyper 212 Black (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G3 650W - dual booting Windows 10 and Linux - Black and green theme, Razer brainwashed me.

Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

Linux Proliant ML150 G6:

Dual Xeon X5560 - 24GB ECC DDR3 - GTX 750 TI - old Seagate 1.5TB HDD - dark mode Ubuntu (and Win7, cuz why not)

 

How many watts do I need? Seasonic Focus thread, PSU misconceptions, protections explainedgroup reg is bad

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I have a 240hz monitor and a 2700x. I have played alot of overwatch and made it to masters with that setup as a mccree/tracer main. I would go soldier on rare occasions as well. Anyways I usually would get around 200ish fps in game with the 2700x at stock. It dips down to 180 at times but also being up to 260 at times in combat. You still hit 300 before matches but I don't really count that. I also have a 8700k build and I get 300 fps pretty consistently in overwatch that being said I can hardly tell the difference. In well optimized games like overwatch the 2700x is a fantastic cpu and I expect this to only get better with Zen 2. I also highly doubt they will release another cpu for z390 tbh. Also it should be noted that I was running at 3000 mhz with loose timings for the ram on the 2700x.

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1 minute ago, fasauceome said:

I'll have to put my vote down for am4. It's pretty likely that Intel will be stalling out and that AMD will catch up with Zen 2, if their new epyc server chips are anything to go by.

Just curious, what about the new epyc server chips makes you think AMD is going to catch up with Intel in per core performance, which is what high FPS gaming wants?

i9-9900k @ 5.1GHz || EVGA 3080 ti FTW3 EK Cooled || EVGA z390 Dark || G.Skill TridentZ 32gb 4000MHz C16

 970 Pro 1tb || 860 Evo 2tb || BeQuiet Dark Base Pro 900 || EVGA P2 1200w || AOC Agon AG352UCG

Cooled by: Heatkiller || Hardware Labs || Bitspower || Noctua || EKWB

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12 minutes ago, Terrae said:

1. Do you know if/believe Zen2 will be performing equally well to intel in high fps gaming (240hz, 1080p)?

 

No body knows. Review samples MIGHT hit people late this year, probably early next year.

13 minutes ago, Terrae said:

2. Will Zen2 run fine on X470? And will i be able to run the Zen2 refresh as well? (Regarding claimed Am4 support until 2020)

Zen2 yes, refresh most likely.

13 minutes ago, Terrae said:

3. Will there be another Intel CPU Generation on Z390 (and thereby Z370)?

Nobody knows. It's undetermined when Intel will roll out their 10nm process, though if Coffee Lake refresh is anything to go by, it will likely be out of stock as soon as it hits the market anyways.

 

14 minutes ago, Terrae said:

4. Which of my options listed below would YOU go for regarding backstory, budget etc?

If I had to pick right now, I'd probably say Zen, but I also just bought an 8700K because I prefer my per core performance and slight IPC advantages. I also like overclocking.

 

I would say if you're doing alright on an FX-8350 right now, just wait to see what Zen 2 has to offer. And maybe Intel will have something else announced by then also, no way to know except to wait.

5 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

It's pretty likely that Intel will be stalling out and that AMD will catch up with Zen 2

I'd be surprised. Intel still has a handy lead in per core and IPCs. They might come close though.

My Build, v2.1 --- CPU: i7-8700K @ 5.2GHz/1.288v || MoBo: Asus ROG STRIX Z390-E Gaming || RAM: 4x4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 2666 14-14-14-33 || Cooler: Custom Loop || GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC Black, on water || PSU: EVGA G2 850W || Case: Corsair 450D || SSD: 850 Evo 250GB, Intel 660p 2TB || Storage: WD Blue 2TB || G502 & Glorious PCGR Fully Custom 80% Keyboard || MX34VQ, PG278Q, PB278Q

Audio --- Headphones: Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX || Amp: Schiit Audio Magni 3 || DAC: Schiit Audio Modi 3 || Mic: Blue Yeti

 

[Under Construction]

 

My Truck --- 2002 F-350 7.3 Powerstroke || 6-speed

My Car --- 2006 Mustang GT || 5-speed || BBK LTs, O/R X, MBRP Cat-back || BBK Lowering Springs, LCAs || 2007 GT500 wheels w/ 245s/285s

 

The Experiment --- CPU: i5-3570K @ 4.0 GHz || MoBo: Asus P8Z77-V LK || RAM: 16GB Corsair 1600 4x4 || Cooler: CM Hyper 212 Evo || GPUs: Asus GTX 750 Ti, || PSU: Corsair TX750M Gold || Case: Thermaltake Core G21 TG || SSD: 840 Pro 128GB || HDD: Seagate Barracuda 2TB

 

R.I.P. Asus X99-A motherboard, April 2016 - October 2018, may you rest in peace. 5820K, if I ever buy you a new board, it'll be a good one.

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6 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

Just curious, what about the new epyc server chips makes you think AMD is going to catch up with Intel in per core performance, which is what high FPS gaming wants?

The fact that they were able to get 8 cores on one unit instead of just 4 means infinity fabric's reliability on ram speeds will be out the window, and the new frequencies showcased that are available due to the 7nm process are quite striking. Pretty unprecedented increase of 20 - 25% ipc over original zen as well.

I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

Primary PC:

i7 8086k (won) - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Skill Trident Z RGB - WD SN750 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - Hyper 212 Black (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G3 650W - dual booting Windows 10 and Linux - Black and green theme, Razer brainwashed me.

Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

Linux Proliant ML150 G6:

Dual Xeon X5560 - 24GB ECC DDR3 - GTX 750 TI - old Seagate 1.5TB HDD - dark mode Ubuntu (and Win7, cuz why not)

 

How many watts do I need? Seasonic Focus thread, PSU misconceptions, protections explainedgroup reg is bad

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Zen 2 will be built on 7nm semiconductors, so It should be faster core for core than intel, which means it will obliterate them dollar for dollar (not that they already aren't (a 2600 for $150?  And people are STILL buying 8400s?!?!))

The sign is a subtle joke. The shop is called "Sneed's Feed & Seed", where feed and seed both end in the sound "-eed", thus rhyming with the name of the owner, Sneed. The sign says that the shop was "Formerly Chuck's", implying that the two words beginning with "F" and "S" would have ended with "-uck", rhyming with "Chuck". So, when Chuck owned the shop, it would have been called "Chuck's Feeduck and Seeduck".

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Thank you all for your polite, quick and reasonable

responses! It helps a lot. 

7 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Anyways I usually would get around 200ish fps in game with the 2700x at stock. It dips down to 180 at times but also being up to 260 at times in combat.

Thanks for this report. I suppose you use the lowest graphics preset then? Which render scale is it beeing rendered at?

6 hours ago, Cereal5 said:

 

I would say if you're doing alright on an FX-8350 right now, just wait to see what Zen 2 has to offer.

I'd love to do that actually but i just cant bear this heater anymore. Framedrops and overall bad performance. It did nice for a few years and it payed off. I still do not regret buying it quite a few years ago nevertheless it's time to go.

 

7 hours ago, fasauceome said:

The fact that they were able to get 8 cores on one unit instead of just 4 means infinity fabric's reliability on ram speeds will be out the window, and the new frequencies showcased that are available due to the 7nm process are quite striking. Pretty unprecedented increase of 20 - 25% ipc over original zen as well.

I'm really looking forward to how that translates to Zen2. At least, Intel can not simply rely on their ipc advantage forever. Hopefully Cereal5 will be proved right and there will be some samples/leaks before the end of the year (which then settle my decision).

 

==>> For now i think i'd go for AMD. I can live with the performance disadvantage in my specific usecase until Zen2 comes out. I wont be happy with any Intel processor because of the overall bad value for the money. Maybe i am lucky and Zen2 exceeds my expectations/hopes, maybe not. Either way it will be better than Zen+ and that's enough for me to not regret at all going for AMD over Intel.

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6 hours ago, Terrae said:

Thank you all for your polite, quick and reasonable

responses! It helps a lot. 

Thanks for this report. I suppose you use the lowest graphics preset then? Which render scale is it beeing rendered at?

I'd love to do that actually but i just cant bear this heater anymore. Framedrops and overall bad performance. It did nice for a few years and it payed off. I still do not regret buying it quite a few years ago nevertheless it's time to go.

 

I'm really looking forward to how that translates to Zen2. At least, Intel can not simply rely on their ipc advantage forever. Hopefully Cereal5 will be proved right and there will be some samples/leaks before the end of the year (which then settle my decision).

 

==>> For now i think i'd go for AMD. I can live with the performance disadvantage in my specific usecase until Zen2 comes out. I wont be happy with any Intel processor because of the overall bad value for the money. Maybe i am lucky and Zen2 exceeds my expectations/hopes, maybe not. Either way it will be better than Zen+ and that's enough for me to not regret at all going for AMD over Intel.

I have ran it with a 1080ti and a 2080ti so I just ran it at high detail 100% render scale. 

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6 hours ago, Terrae said:

Thank you all for your polite, quick and reasonable

responses! It helps a lot. 

Thanks for this report. I suppose you use the lowest graphics preset then? Which render scale is it beeing rendered at?

I'd love to do that actually but i just cant bear this heater anymore. Framedrops and overall bad performance. It did nice for a few years and it payed off. I still do not regret buying it quite a few years ago nevertheless it's time to go.

 

I'm really looking forward to how that translates to Zen2. At least, Intel can not simply rely on their ipc advantage forever. Hopefully Cereal5 will be proved right and there will be some samples/leaks before the end of the year (which then settle my decision).

 

==>> For now i think i'd go for AMD. I can live with the performance disadvantage in my specific usecase until Zen2 comes out. I wont be happy with any Intel processor because of the overall bad value for the money. Maybe i am lucky and Zen2 exceeds my expectations/hopes, maybe not. Either way it will be better than Zen+ and that's enough for me to not regret at all going for AMD over Intel.

Honestly with a ttc 970 I would be very surprised if you would see any difference between the 2700x and the 8700k.

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2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Honestly with a ttc 970 I would be very surprised if you would see any difference between the 2700x and the 8700k.

You're right. Thats why i use low on 75% render scale to eliminate gpu bottleneck as much as possible. But i will upgrade the gpu anyways as soon as rtx prices fall after christmas. Then cpu should be limiting more.

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I already agree with your decision  since it's the same one that I've gone with but I just had to throw it out there that intel has been on the same socket for 4 years and has made pretty much zero effort to make the chipsets backwards compatible besides z170/270 kind of while restricting z370-390. Remember the good old days when intel promised that z97 would be good for both haswell, devils canyon, and broadwell? And then it actually happened. Wow what a time to be alive, besides for how lackluster the broadwell release was for the desktop side. Oh well good efforts intel. Wish I didn't have to pay $400 for a platform that won't be upgradeable or I might have gone with ya.

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2 hours ago, kevinisbeast707 said:

Wish I didn't have to pay $400 for a platform that won't be upgradeable or I might have gone with ya.

I totally agree with you!

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