Faulty PSU?

[TheRadElk]

Hi! 

 

My friend bought a new PSU (Thermaltake 600W SMART RGB) for his system and is experiencing crashes when gaming, but not when stress testing with any tools (Aida, OCCT, FurMark, Unigine, a.s.o.) 

 

I asked him to send me some pictures of the results and I saw he's not getting 12v on the 12v rail, but only 10. I've just done some light reading and found out this might indicate a faulty PSU but I wanted to double check, since I'm not familiar with it and the PSU is new (bought this week from Amazon.de). Is that the case? If so, shall he get a better PSU and possibly more wattage?  

 

More on the issue and his specs here (also posted on the forum)

[Rex_G]

I would say it is a bad PSU. Is it possible to borrow another PSU and test his system? If it is indeed the power supply, he should pick up a better one. Go with EVGA, Corsair, Cooler master (I personally prefer EVGA). Here is a tiered list of power supplies (from LTT forums)

To consider the wattage, go to PC partpicker and add all your components. It'll give you a power budget on top. My rule of thumb is power supply wattage = power budget + 100W. 

[Stefan Payne]

28 minutes ago, alemeraldom said:

My friend bought a new PSU (Thermaltake 600W SMART RGB) for his system and is experiencing crashes when gaming,

Condolences

Try replacing the PSU with something good.
The lower end Smart Bronze are pretty shit and should not be used.

[TheRadElk]

3 minutes ago, Rex_G said:

I would say it is a bad PSU. Is it possible to borrow another PSU and test his system? If it is indeed the power supply, he should pick up a better one. Go with EVGA, Corsair, Cooler master (I personally prefer EVGA). Here is a tiered list of power supplies (from LTT forums)

To consider the wattage, go to PC partpicker and add all your components. It'll give you a power budget on top. My rule of thumb is power supply wattage = power budget + 100W. 

Thanks @Rex_G - We'll try connecting the GPU to a 400w PSU and keep the rest of the system on the Thermaltake one. I would've been able to give him my PSU, but we live about a thousand km apart now, heh... Thanks for the recommendations, I'm a Seasonic and EVGA fan myself and that's what he'll probably get next time as well. I've heard quite a few people having problems with Corsair PSU's so I never touched them - especially the mid-range/budget segment.

 

Nevertheless, will keep you posted if anything changes!  

[TheRadElk]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

Condolences

 Try replacing the PSU with something good.
The lower end Smart Bronze are pretty shit and should not be used.

Thanks, bud. Condolences appreciated, hah! Well, that's what doing a PC on a budget gets you, I guess.  

Will keep you posted after a new PSU.

[Stefan Payne]

1 minute ago, alemeraldom said:

Thanks, bud. Condolences appreciated, hah! Well, that's what doing a PC on a budget gets you, I guess.  

Will keep you posted after a new PSU.

Depends on where you live and what your options are.

For a couple of weeks, you could get an awesome PSU in Germany for 14,95€ + Shipping. Though that was only for a short time.

 

So where do you live?

[TheRadElk]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

Depends on where you live and what your options are.

For a couple of weeks, you could get an awesome PSU in Germany for 14,95€ + Shipping. Though that was only for a short time.

 

So where do you live?

I live in Sweden now. He's still in The Netherlands  He'll return the Thermaltake to Amazon and is looking to get a 750W Gold from EVGA/Seasonic. 

I recommended him the Seasonic 650W Focus Gold (the one I'm using) - never had an issue with mine or any other Seasonic PSU's I've used in 2 other PC's. Specs-wise, I'm running a beefier PC than his (8700K, 1070, 16GB RAM)

[Stefan Payne]

1 minute ago, alemeraldom said:

I live in Sweden now. He's still in The Netherlands  He'll return the Thermaltake to Amazon and is looking to get a 750W Gold from EVGA/Seasonic. 

No need for that!

There are great options here in Europe for little money.

 

And 750W is nonsense for that system as well. 400W is enough w/o OC!

Or what are the specs that you recommended a 750W???

 

So the best option for a budget are Xilence Performance A+ or be quiet System Power 9.

430W A+ only has one PCIe Connector, two for the 530W. System Power 9 has two IIRC.

 

If you want to spend more, get a 450 or 550W be quiet Straight Power 11.

 

EVGA and Seasonic aren't that great. 

I really don't get why people run for them...

1 minute ago, alemeraldom said:

I recommended him the Seasonic 650W Focus Gold (the one I'm using) - never had an issue with mine or any other Seasonic PSU's I've used in 2 other PC's. Specs-wise, I'm running a beefier PC than his (8700K, 1070, 16GB RAM)

Seasonic PSU tend to be rather loud, as do EVGA. Both are average at best or pretty bad in terms of fan RPM and noise.

[TheRadElk]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

No need for that!

There are great options here in Europe for little money.

 

And 750W is nonsense for that system as well. 400W is enough w/o OC!

Or what are the specs that you recommended a 750W???

 

So the best option for a budget are Xilence Performance A+ or be quiet System Power 9.

430W A+ only has one PCIe Connector, two for the 530W. System Power 9 has two IIRC.

 

If you want to spend more, get a 450 or 550W be quiet Straight Power 11.

 

EVGA and Seasonic aren't that great. 

I really don't get why people run for them...

Seasonic PSU tend to be rather loud, as do EVGA. Both are average at best or pretty bad in terms of fan RPM and noise.

I haven't recommended him a 750W PSU. I told him from the start 600W is more than enough instead. And speaking of BeQuiet - I never said they're a bad brand, it's just that I'm more familiar with EVGA and Seasonic and I've read some posts about minor issues with cheaper BQ PSU's. 

 

In terms of noise for Seasonic, the only tool I use to measure my PSU Fan Noise are my ears and I've never had an issue with the sound it produces. I believe mine even has a silent fan mode, but why use it, if I'm not bothered...Mind you, my PC is next to me on the desk. 

 

Also, ich habe nun jetzt gemerkt...Danke für deine Hilfe, hah!  

[Spotty]

56 minutes ago, alemeraldom said:

 More on the issue and his specs here (also posted on the forum)



It has Minimum of 1.668v on the 12v? How is that even possible?

[TheRadElk]

3 minutes ago, Spotty said:

It has Minimum of 1.668v on the 12v? How is that even possible?

No clue on that one!  Maybe it just bugged out.

[TheRadElk]

10 minutes ago, Spotty said:

It has Minimum of 1.668v on the 12v? How is that even possible?

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=516 Maybe it's just like in this case

 

[OrionFOTL]

Software that claims to monitor voltages is useless, since it is not possible for software to directly measure power supply output voltage. Just ignore the results and regard them as random numbers.

Your computer wouldn't even run if the +12V rail was 10.0V, which is the best proof.

 

43 minutes ago, alemeraldom said:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=516 Maybe it's just like in this case

 

This is a screenshot of the turn-on transient test. The PSU is completely OFF before the spike. Like the label "Off to Full, 12V" above it says.

[TheRadElk]

14 minutes ago, OrionFOTL said:

Software that claims to monitor voltages is useless, since it is not possible for software to directly measure power supply output voltage. Just ignore the results and regard them as random numbers.

Your computer wouldn't even run if the +12V rail was 10.0V, which is the best proof.

 

This is a screenshot of the turn-on transient test. The PSU is completely OFF before the spike. Like the label "Off to Full, 12V" above it says.

Thanks a lot, @OrionFOTL! So you'd recommend getting a Voltage meter and testing it or simply sending it back to Amazon for a replacement? Cheers.

 

*and thanks for the explanation for the screenshot  

[OrionFOTL]

What kind of crashes are you getting? Does the game just hang up and crash back to Windows? If so, that rules out a problem with the power supply.

It would be a good idea to replace the PSU anyway since it's not a good one. A good 450-550W one will be nice, and Stefan Payne listed some good options.

[TheRadElk]

2 minutes ago, OrionFOTL said:

What kind of crashes are you getting? Does the game just hang up and crash back to Windows? If so, that rules out a problem with the power supply.

It would be a good idea to replace the PSU anyway since it's not a good one. A good 450-550W one will be nice, and Stefan Payne listed some good options.

Will be back with a reply once I get in touch with him. As far as I can remember from yesterday night, his game would freeze, then the system would reboot. It also happened that the PC would just reboot, without the gaming crashing at first.

 

Before he got a new cooler, COD Blackout would give him a black screen and then reboot, but multiplayer worked fine. We didn't get to test other games - we plan to do that tonight.

 

We're not sure either if it's the PSU, have seen forum posts about GPU having an issue, but more on the PSU side somehow. Either way, will keep you up2date.

[TheRadElk]

8 minutes ago, OrionFOTL said:

What kind of crashes are you getting? Does the game just hang up and crash back to Windows? If so, that rules out a problem with the power supply.

It would be a good idea to replace the PSU anyway since it's not a good one. A good 450-550W one will be nice, and Stefan Payne listed some good options.

Ok, managed to get in touch with him faster than I thought. So:

 

"Playing Blackout - game freezes - he can still talk 5-10 seconds on Discord - system reboots." - that's his issue. No Desktop return or anything else.

 

He also noticed that whenever he turns off the PSU and then turns it back on, the PC just fires up without him actually pressing the Power Button. 

He also told me that he's not connecting the PSU plug directly to the wall, but to an extension cord cable connected to another extension cord cable, heh.

 

Notice any problems here that might link back to his issue? 

[OrionFOTL]

19 minutes ago, alemeraldom said:

"Playing Blackout - game freezes - he can still talk 5-10 seconds on Discord - system reboots."

That's 100% not PSU. Maybe software (Windows, drivers, game itself) or graphics card/processor or other hardware.

 

That said, it's still a good idea to get a good PSU instead of a rather bad one like the Thermaltake.

[TheRadElk]

@OrionFOTL @Spotty @Rex_G @Stefan Payne 

First of all, thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion. My friend and I managed to play Blackout for 2h straight now without any weird freezes, stutters, reboots a.s.o. We've also tested CS, just for the sake of it, until he can also get some other games and no issues there either. 

 

We don't know what fixed it for sure, but we've done the following things:

 

-Ran the PSU directly to the wall instead of an extension power cable

-Reset CMOS

-Core Performance Boost Disabled from BIOS 

-Wattman set to 50%

-Uninstalled MSI Afterburner (rather said, didn't run it)

-Used Teamspeak for 1h and Discord for the other hour just to check if the software was the problem

-I forgot to ask if he disabled F.lux but I'll do an edit whenever I get an answer from him.

 

I guess that would be it. He had a stable performance with the game capped at 70 FPS because he has a 60Hz monitor and just transferred from console gaming either way. Dipped to 45 when dropping into the map, but that's normal in BR.

 

GPU temp was never above 60, we haven't checked CPU but we could run some tests. I'd say that didn't go over 60 though.

 

Feel free to direct other people to this post if they ever encounter the same issues and thanks yet again for your comments. 

 

Have a good one!

 

 

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

Just now, alemeraldom said:

@OrionFOTL @Spotty @Rex_G @Stefan Payne 

First of all, thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion. My friend and I managed to play Blackout for 2h straight now without any weird freezes, stutters, reboots a.s.o. We've also tested CS, just for the sake of it, until he can also get some other games and no issues there either. 

 

We don't know what fixed it for sure, but we've done the following things:

 

-Ran the PSU directly to the wall instead of an extension power cable

-Reset CMOS

-Core Performance Boost Disabled from BIOS 

-Wattman set to 50%

-Uninstalled MSI Afterburner (rather said, didn't run it)

-Used Teamspeak for 1h and Discord for the other hour just to check if the software was the problem

-I forgot to ask if he disabled F.lux but I'll do an edit whenever I get an answer from him.

 

I guess that would be it. He had a stable performance with the game capped at 70 FPS because he has a 60Hz monitor and just transferred from console gaming either way. Dipped to 45 when dropping into the map, but that's normal in BR.

 

GPU temp was never above 60, we haven't checked CPU but we could run some tests. I'd say that didn't go over 60 though.

 

Feel free to direct other people to this post if they ever encounter the same issues and thanks yet again for your comments. 

 

Have a good one!

 

 

I'd get a better PSU (i.e. CX550M) anyway just to be safe

[TheRadElk]

35 minutes ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

I'd get a better PSU (i.e. CX550M) anyway just to be safe

He's planning on doing that, but at least we know it should work fine for now. We'll keep testing the following days!