Push vs Pull & Thick vs Thin

[TahoeDust]

I am going to be mounting a 280mm at the top of my BeQuite! Dark Base Pro 900.  I have two options.  I can either have the HWLabs 280GTX 55mm rad with the fans in pull configuration OR the HWLabs 280GTS 30mm rad with the fans in push configuration.  Both rads are designed for low speed fans and will be getting Noctua NF-A14 @ 800-1000rpms.  Which should offer better performance?  Which would you prefer.

[Fasauceome]

Push and pull offer exact same performance. Pull is better to make dust cleanup easier. Thick is better because it has more surface are. Basically the first option is better in every way.

[TahoeDust]

2 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

Push and pull offer exact same performance. Pull is better to make dust cleanup easier. Thick is better because it has more surface are. Basically the first option is better in every way.

Sounds good.  It'll be 55mm 420GTX with push doing intake in the front and 55mm 280GTX with pull doing exhaust at the top.

[ARikozuM]

I would do option 1. Thicker is better at the same FPI.

[TacoSenpai]

17 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Thicker is better

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[aezakmi]

23 minutes ago, LordOTaco said:

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Spoiler

 

[TacoSenpai]

1 minute ago, aezakmi said:

  Hide contents

 

That went from thick to THICC

[Tristerin]

Ive tried push, ive tried pull, ive tried duct-tape method (youtube it)

 

Best results I had where I couldn't do a push/pull was Push with Duct-Tape.  I top mounted my 240mm rad and you couldn't tell it was sealed with duct-tape, and it can come in neat colors and likely RGB if we PC users continue to use Duct Tape.

[TahoeDust]

19 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Ive tried push, ive tried pull, ive tried duct-tape method (youtube it)

 

Best results I had where I couldn't do a push/pull was Push with Duct-Tape.  I top mounted my 240mm rad and you couldn't tell it was sealed with duct-tape, and it can come in neat colors and likely RGB if we PC users continue to use Duct Tape.

Interesting. 

 

I will not be using duct tape on this build.  So, baring duct tape, Pull/Thick or Push/Thin?

[Tristerin]

11 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

Interesting. 

 

I will not be using duct tape on this build.  So, baring duct tape, Pull/Thick or Push/Thin?

 

I like push configs, have never had a radiator that thick so I cannot speak to that, but cleaning my rads is easier because most of the dust is on the fan blades.  Id think a Pull config on a rad that thick is asking for dust buildup between the fins rather quick (but I have no experience with it to say that is what will happen - but that would also depend on your air flow configuration - positive, negative, neutral - if you are neutral you are likely to have the least amount of dust introduced to the case but thermals aren't as good overall from my experience, as a Positive pressure environment but that is much more dusty/dirty over time)

 

 

[TahoeDust]

1 minute ago, Tristerin said:

 

I like push configs, have never had a radiator that thick so I cannot speak to that, but cleaning my rads is easier because most of the dust is on the fan blades.  Id think a Pull config on a rad that thick is asking for dust buildup between the fins rather quick (but I have no experience with it to say that is what will happen - but that would also depend on your air flow configuration - positive, negative, neutral - if you are neutral you are likely to have the least amount of dust introduced to the case but thermals aren't as good overall from my experience, as a Positive pressure environment but that is much more dusty/dirty over time)

 

 

I could either go neutral or supper positive.  3 x 140mm in and 3 x 140mm out or 5 x 140mm in and 1 x 140mm out.

[Tristerin]

I run a super positive environment on my 8350 rig in my sig because thermals - my Corsair Link under 2 hour plus gaming (example Battlefield 5 the other weekend) with my fan curve never see my liquid in my radiator above 40c nor my CPU sensor (the GTX I have actually forces 100% load for pump and fans regardless of curve which makes it loud and I hate it once you hit 40c in the radiator) above 50c.  I prefer positive and just compressed air every few months

 

(however I just opened my near year old Ryzen build in my sig, which is running Neutral, daily use - zero dust in the case.  Its a seethrough window case but its buried so I haven't gotten to look in it until I just added another 8gb RAM last week) - so even a Neutral environment with that type of rads may be completely fine.

[Dschijn]

Please be aware that the top section of the case is super restrictive and not good for watercooling! Best way to improve airflow in the top is to remove the "sound breaking" sections on the side of the top.

 

Slow rpm fans -> GTS since the other rad will not give you any benefits.

 

But please explain "HWLabs 280GTX 55mm rad with the fans in pull configuration OR the HWLabs 280GTS 30mm rad with the fans in push configuration". Why not the other way around? Why does the GTX qill make you go pull and the GTS push?

[TahoeDust]

1 minute ago, Dschijn said:

Please be aware that the top section of the case is super restrictive and not good for watercooling! Best way to improve airflow in the top is to remove the "sound breaking" sections on the side of the top.

 

Slow rpm fans -> GTS since the other rad will not give you any benefits.

 

But please explain "HWLabs 280GTX 55mm rad with the fans in pull configuration OR the HWLabs 280GTS 30mm rad with the fans in push configuration". Why not the other way around? Why does the GTX qill make you go pull and the GTS push?

I only have about 60mm clearance from the MB at the top of the case so if I am using the GTX rad the fans have to go above the rad.   So you're right, I could do GTX Push in the upper if I ran the fans as intake.  If I wanted to do exhaust it would have to be in pull.  I will probably just get both the GTX and the GTS and see how they look/fit.

[Dschijn]

1 minute ago, TahoeDust said:

I only have about 60mm clearance from the MB at the top of the case so if I am using the GTX rad the fans have to go above the rad.   So you're right, I could do GTX Push in the upper if I ran the fans as intake.  If I wanted to do exhaust it would have to be in pull.  I will probably just get both the GTX and the GTS and see how they look/fit.

Please forgive beeing brutaly honest, but the GTX setup will work very very poorly! There is barely enough clearance above the fans if you mount them in the upper section and they will suffocate.

You know that you lower the mainboard tray of the case to get more distance between the top and the mainboard?!

 

Here is my attempt in getting better airflow in the top:

 

 

[TahoeDust]

28 minutes ago, Dschijn said:

Please forgive beeing brutaly honest, but the GTX setup will work very very poorly! There is barely enough clearance above the fans if you mount them in the upper section and they will suffocate.

You know that you lower the mainboard tray of the case to get more distance between the top and the mainboard?!

 

Here is my attempt in getting better airflow in the top:

 

 

Hmmm...that is a little discouraging.  I do not have the case or rad in hand yet.  They are both set for deliver tomorrow.  I had read that with the MB tray in the lowest position there was ~60mm of room above the MB.  Is that not accurate?  I would need around 80mm to get the fans below the GTX.  Considering the performance I guess I should plan on doing the GTS with the fans below the rad.  This loop (420GTX and whatever I go with up top) will only be cooling a 9900k and single 2080ti, so nothing too crazy.

[Dschijn]

- out of the box 40mm

- first step lower 62mm

- second step lower 84mm

Keep in mind that lowering the mainboard tray will make some PCIe slots unusable since they will be behind the PSU.

[TahoeDust]

Just now, Dschijn said:

- out of the box 40mm

- first step lower 62mm

- second step lower 84mm

Keep in mind that lowering the mainboard tray will make some PCIe slots unusable since they will be behind the PSU.

Wow...that is good info.  Thanks!  

 

I guess I will be able to do the GTX with the fans below it.  I am only going to be running the GPU and a PCI x1 card so the lower PCI-E slots should not be needed.  Hmmm...I wonder if push/pull would help or if it would be too choked to make a difference. 

[TahoeDust]

I just got delivery notifications that case (BQ Dark Base Pro 900) and rads (420GTX & 280GTX) will get here tomorrow.  I already have the fans.  I am sure I can scrounge up an of MB to checkt the clearances.

 

If I can't make it fit well, I will order the GTS of one of them.

 

Now I am wondering...420mm on the top or in the front?

[TahoeDust]

Thanks for your help @Dschijn.  It looks like they are going to fit...

 

 

[Dschijn]

Great! Make sure to seal the gaps around the radiators so you will only use fresh air.

Maybe consider front intake and top intake as well! Top exhaust will run on the preheated air from the front and you will waste cooling performance.

[TahoeDust]

5 hours ago, Dschijn said:

Great! Make sure to seal the gaps around the radiators so you will only use fresh air.

Maybe consider front intake and top intake as well! Top exhaust will run on the preheated air from the front and you will waste cooling performance.

Thanks.  I was trying to decide if I should go intake or exhaust on the top.  Also, do you think I would see any performance gain by going push/pull up top?

 

Here is the build thread...

 

[Dschijn]

Push/pull will give you just a little gain. Would be only worth it on the GTX not the GTS.

[TahoeDust]

58 minutes ago, Dschijn said:

Push/pull will give you just a little gain. Would be only worth it on the GTX not the GTS.

That's what I was thinking.  What process/products do you use to flush out new radiators?

[Dschijn]

I just used distilled water
HWLabs wasn't that dirty.