Is NVMe right for me?

[DanielMDA]

So, im going to build a PC for Data Analysis and Storage (Not for Gaming), specifically R and Python, however Im not certain about what type of SSD will suit the needs of my client, if an NVMe SSD or a SATA SSD. The PC would also have a 2TB HDD (7200 RPM), all of this using a 400 Series Motherboard and AMD StoreMI for better storage management.

 

The SSDs of choice would be Western Digital SSDs, because I´ve had good experience with their products and Warranties. The SSD for NVMe would be the WD Black NVMe M.2 SSD 250GB (NVMe, not PCIe, that´s last gen, and its 40% slower) and for NVMe the WD Blue 3D NAND M.2 SSD 250GB. 

 

 

The Specs for the PC for Data Analytics and Science would be:

 

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600X / Ryzen 7 2700X

CPU Cooler: AMD Wraith Spire / Wraith Prism (CPU dependant)

RAM: G. Skill Ripjaws V 3200MHz 16GB (2x8)

Motherboard: ASRock X470 Master SLI/AC or Gigabyte AORUS B450 Gaming WiFi (once released)

GPU: MSI Aero ITX Radeon RX 560 4GB OC (16 CU´s, 1024 SP)

SSD: Aforementioned

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 2TB (3.5", 7200RPM)

PSU: Corsair CX-M 550/650 (80+ Bronze, Semi-Modular, [Tier 3 of 7 on PSU Tier List] )

 

Monitor: Acer G247HYU 24 Inch 2560x1440p 60Hz Monitor

Keyboard: Logitech MK 520

 

However, thats not the point of this post, the point is, is an NVMe worth it for large databases, data analysis, science and storage?

 

Lemme know what to do in the comments down below, also, please vote.

 

However 

[suchamoneypit]

Is the application its used for using a lot of storage, quickly? Some workloads needs very large datasets where storage is needed but aren't moving this storage around a lot. If you need a lot of storage but not necessarily massive bandwidth, SATA SSDs would be the best choice (and they aren't slowpokes by any means). If you are moving data and lots of it constantly the NVME might be the wiser choice for its speed albeit at a higher cost.

[DocSwag]

How much does each cost?

[DanielMDA]

14 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

How much does each cost?

$79.99 for the WD Blue

$99.99 for the WD Black NVMe

 

@DocSwag

[KarathKasun]

NVMe is a protocol on top of PCIe.  NVMe SSDs are, by nature, PCIe.

 

Need more info on your workload target TBQH.  What kind of IOPS are needed and so on.  I see python there, so its going to be slow regardless compared to other paltforms.

Edited July 19, 2018 by KarathKasun

[ninbura]

Mushkin released PCIe NVMe M.2s a month ago that are very affordable with great performance. It's a lot easier to make the choice when the PCIe drive is actually cheaper than the Sata one:

https://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-PILOT-500GB-Internal-MKNSSDPL500GB-D8/dp/B07CYLKZMW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531983624&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=mushkin%2Bpilot&dpPl=1&dpID=4116zQRMQBL&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1

 

Believe it or not, it should actually out perform the WD Black drive also, Moore's law.

[DocSwag]

10 hours ago, DanielMDA said:

$79.99 for the WD Blue

$99.99 for the WD Black NVMe

 

@DocSwag

It's hard to say which to go for because I'm not familiar with your workload. When you say data analysis, is all the data stored in storage or is it loaded into ram or something? 

 

I would personally get a different ssd than those though. In the US an mx500 is $65 and better than a blue 3D. You could also grab an HP EX920 250gb for a little less than $80, which would be a lot better than the wd black.

 

If you want to be safe you could grab the ex920 as it isn't too much more. If you need more storage space though a 500gb mx500 is only $100. And I believe the ex920 does drop a fair bit in performance when full. 

[handymanshandle]

Well Im not sure how much storage you need.

 

I'm considering getting the WD Black m.2 500GB NVMe SSD

Specifically this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BR9FV1C/

But uh maybe traditional SATA SSDs for you might be the way to go

[SZ1357]

With your workload, I wouldn't assume that you would be moving tons of data around every second, so I think Nvme is not for you, you wouldn't really notice the difference.

[DanielMDA]

On 19/7/2018 at 7:57 AM, DocSwag said:

It's hard to say which to go for because I'm not familiar with your workload. When you say data analysis, is all the data stored in storage or is it loaded into ram or something? 

 

I would personally get a different ssd than those though. In the US an mx500 is $65 and better than a blue 3D. You could also grab an HP EX920 250gb for a little less than $80, which would be a lot better than the wd black.

 

If you want to be safe you could grab the ex920 as it isn't too much more. If you need more storage space though a 500gb mx500 is only $100. And I believe the ex920 does drop a fair bit in performance when full. 

The drive you recommend me should outperform the WD Black PCIe (last Gen) not the WD Black NVMe (this gen, they changed names) which is 40%fasyer and is on par with a 960 Evo. But thanks.

[MadBuldog]

It seams that you plan to use the NVMe SSD as a mission critical component, which might not be the best solution for a drive that will constantly be in Read/Write mode. If you check the specification for both SSD's (the WD Black NVMe 250 GB - Endurance 200 TBW* and WD Blue 250 GB - Endurance 100 TBW) the Operating Temperatures are from 0°C to 70°C, this means at above the maximum operating temperature of 70°C the drive will shut down, and if any of those drives are running the OS you might end up with reinstalling the OS from scratch (worst case scenario, a situation that happen to me with my laptop and an Intel 600p NVMe SSD, usually NVMe SSD's with TLC memory modules run hotter then the other NVMe SSD's which usually run hot anyway).

 

If you really need to run NVMe SSD's in your system, then the best option is to go with a Samsung 960 or 970 PRO, those have MLC memory modules (Samsung V-NAND 2-bit MLC, larger Read/Write life span, Warranty for the 970 PRO 512 GB, 5 Years or 600 TBW* ) and generally even the EVO SSD's (Samsung V-NAND 3-bit MLC, lesser Read/Write life span then the PRO series but still better then TLC, Warranty for the 970 EVO 250 GB, 5 Years or 150 TBW, or for the 970 EVO 500 GB, 5 Years or 300 TBW) from Samsung have Operating Temperatures from 0°C to 85°C. IMHO the best current sweet spot for NVMe SSD's holds the Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB since it's endurance is 300 TBW and the Read/Write speeds  3,500/2,500 MB/s are really close to the 970 PRO version Read/Write speeds 3,500/2,700 MB/s., the only advantage currently for the 970 PRO version is the 600 TBW.

 

The thermal situation you can actually control for a bit with thermal pads placed only on the memory controller on the SSD's not over the memory modules, you don't want to cool too much the memory modules but cooling the memory controller is a must in NVMe SSD's (since that's the component that's overheating). Gamer Nexus has a nice video about M.2 Heat sinks linked here, time stamp around 6:15 within the video:

 

As you are planing an AMD build, IMHO probably your best option for reliability and stability would be to go with SATA III SSD's, or maybe you can go with an option like Intel Optane 32 GB or 64 GB drive and just accelerate the 7200 RPM HDD that way, and Optane has Read/Write life span way better then any TLC or MLC memory.

 

TBW* = terabytes written

[DocSwag]

On 7/20/2018 at 6:10 PM, DanielMDA said:

The drive you recommend me should outperform the WD Black PCIe (last Gen) not the WD Black NVMe (this gen, they changed names) which is 40%fasyer and is on par with a 960 Evo. But thanks.

They're both PCIE and NVME lol. PCIe refers to the connection. On both drives that's pcie 3.0 x4. NVMe refers to the protocol. Both wd blacks use it. The difference is one of them is newer and uses 3D NAND. Since you didn't originally specify it I'm gonna assume that you're looking at the 3D NAND one? Which is definitely a lot faster.

 

Even so though I currently rate most of the SM2262 based SSDs, the 960 Evo and 970 Evo, the wd black/SanDisk extreme pro 3D, and the upcoming Phison E12 SSDs at around the same level. The EX920 is one of those SM2262 based SSDs that I would say is similar in performance to the wd black 3D but in this case it's quite a bit cheaper.

[DanielMDA]

20 hours ago, MadBuldog said:

It seams that you plan to use the NVMe SSD as a mission critical component, which might not be the best solution for a drive that will constantly be in Read/Write mode. If you check the specification for both SSD's (the WD Black NVMe 250 GB - Endurance 200 TBW* and WD Blue 250 GB - Endurance 100 TBW) the Operating Temperatures are from 0°C to 70°C, this means at above the maximum operating temperature of 70°C the drive will shut down, and if any of those drives are running the OS you might end up with reinstalling the OS from scratch (worst case scenario, a situation that happen to me with my laptop and an Intel 600p NVMe SSD, usually NVMe SSD's with TLC memory modules run hotter then the other NVMe SSD's which usually run hot anyway).

 

If you really need to run NVMe SSD's in your system, then the best option is to go with a Samsung 960 or 970 PRO, those have MLC memory modules (Samsung V-NAND 2-bit MLC, larger Read/Write life span, Warranty for the 970 PRO 512 GB, 5 Years or 600 TBW* ) and generally even the EVO SSD's (Samsung V-NAND 3-bit MLC, lesser Read/Write life span then the PRO series but still better then TLC, Warranty for the 970 EVO 250 GB, 5 Years or 150 TBW, or for the 970 EVO 500 GB, 5 Years or 300 TBW) from Samsung have Operating Temperatures from 0°C to 85°C. IMHO the best current sweet spot for NVMe SSD's holds the Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB since it's endurance is 300 TBW and the Read/Write speeds  3,500/2,500 MB/s are really close to the 970 PRO version Read/Write speeds 3,500/2,700 MB/s., the only advantage currently for the 970 PRO version is the 600 TBW.

 

The thermal situation you can actually control for a bit with thermal pads placed only on the memory controller on the SSD's not over the memory modules, you don't want to cool too much the memory modules but cooling the memory controller is a must in NVMe SSD's (since that's the component that's overheating). Gamer Nexus has a nice video about M.2 Heat sinks linked here, time stamp around 6:15 within the video:

 

As you are planing an AMD build, IMHO probably your best option for reliability and stability would be to go with SATA III SSD's, or maybe you can go with an option like Intel Optane 32 GB or 64 GB drive and just accelerate the 7200 RPM HDD that way, and Optane has Read/Write life span way better then any TLC or MLC memory.

 

TBW* = terabytes written

Thanks, I had already watched Gamers Nexus video regarding M.2 SSD cooling. Apparently NAND likes to run hot, but the controller has turned run cold. I'll take in consideration the 960/970 Evo 250GB M.2 SSD. It's a great NVMe option. I wanted the WD Black NVMe 250GB for their warranty and my experience with WD Products, but I will follow your suggestion, if I find it at decent prices. (In Mexico prices vary a lot from US prices.)

[DanielMDA]

4 hours ago, DocSwag said:

They're both PCIE and NVME lol. PCIe refers to the connection. On both drives that's pcie 3.0 x4. NVMe refers to the protocol. Both wd blacks use it. The difference is one of them is newer and uses 3D NAND. Since you didn't originally specify it I'm gonna assume that you're looking at the 3D NAND one? Which is definitely a lot faster.

 

Even so though I currently rate most of the SM2262 based SSDs, the 960 Evo and 970 Evo, the wd black/SanDisk extreme pro 3D, and the upcoming Phison E12 SSDs at around the same level. The EX920 is one of those SM2262 based SSDs that I would say is similar in performance to the wd black 3D but in this case it's quite a bit cheaper.

I know PCIe refers to the connection and NVMe refers to the protocol (Non Volatile Memory Express), and a that both SSDs are PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe  but in the case of the WD Black SSDs, literally last gen's SSD (which was 2D NAND, and quite mediocre) was named WD Black PCIe, and current gen WD Black SSD is named WD Black NVMe, which is a lot faster because it uses 3D NAND, faster NAND and a 15nm Process instead of a 22nm.

 

 

@DocSwag

[MadBuldog]

10 minutes ago, DanielMDA said:

Thanks, I had already watched Gamers Nexus video regarding M.2 SSD cooling. Apparently NAND likes to run hot, but the controller has turned run cold. I'll take in consideration the 960/970 Evo 250GB M.2 SSD. It's a great NVMe option. I wanted the WD Black NVMe 250GB for their warranty and my experience with WD Products, but I will follow your suggestion, if I find it at decent prices. (In Mexico prices vary a lot from US prices.)

Thanks for the consideration, I also really like WD products, I have two 2 TB WD Red's in my Synology NAS and for the past 8~9 years only one has failed and that was only to force shutdowns and power outages like 6~7 years ago. But in the NVMe SSD product range currently Samsung probably has the best products, especially for harder workloads. I live in Macedonia (Eastern Europe) and our prices are also worse then the US market, I had to place a custom order for my 970 EVO 500 GB a month ago for it to arrive two days ago. In my region the latest tech usually get's to us at least 4~6 months later then on the other markets (USA and EU).

 

If you are waiting for a deal you can check:

Newegg

https://www.newegg.com/global/mx/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=970+EVO&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1

or B&H Photo

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=970&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

 

B&H just 10 days ago had a 30~40$ discount on the 970 PRO 512 GB which was, with the discount, actually about the same price as an 970 EVO 500 GB, and also B&H delivers Internationally and the postage might be really low for you since you are on the same continent.

[DocSwag]

5 hours ago, DanielMDA said:

I know PCIe refers to the connection and NVMe refers to the protocol (Non Volatile Memory Express), and a that both SSDs are PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe  but in the case of the WD Black SSDs, literally last gen's SSD (which was 2D NAND, and quite mediocre) was named WD Black PCIe, and current gen WD Black SSD is named WD Black NVMe, which is a lot faster because it uses 3D NAND, faster NAND and a 15nm Process instead of a 22nm.

 

 

@DocSwag

Oh wow I never noticed they change that subtle thing in the name lol. I'll keep that in mind in the future.