X58 CPU Comparison (X58 Owners Please)

[nootnoot1277]

Simple question for those of the X58 club:
How big is the performance difference between the W3680 and W3690 when base speeds are the highest clock's (A.K.A no Turbo before using Throttlestop to software overclock).
i need not go into to much detail but i'm upgrading one of my systems (Dell XPS 9000) as i'm a Dell Collector so no i wont be changing mobo and no i wont be looking at newer platforms as i can buy a W3690 for less than a kit of ram would be for a new platform.

Cheers

[Intelfreak]

besween the two stock. difference is like 2-3 %. Really nothing you are gonna feel. Get the cheapest model.

 

I asume your motherboard dosent support overclock as you have the stock board that came with the dell.

 

Getting the one or another really dosent matter that much. There are a difference og 133 MHz and you will not feel that for every day use.

[unclewebb]

The W3680 and W3690 are basically identical.  They came down the same assembly line and ended up in slightly different boxes.  It is possible that the W3690 is slightly better binned so maybe the W3690 can run the same speed with slightly less voltage.  When you are producing CPUs by the millions, getting them in a box and shipping them is the only thing that is really important so the amount of binning was probably minimal.

 

On a Dell motherboard that does not have CPU voltage adjustment in the bios, both of these CPUs are going to reach approximately 4000 MHz to 4133 MHz.  It is possible that the higher default voltage of the W3680 might actually be an advantage when overclocking the multiplier with ThrottleStop.  The more default voltage the better.  When shopping on EBay, I would save my money and go with the cheaper W3680.

 

Here is how my Dell T3500 - W3680 looks after getting a helping hand from ThrottleStop.  Cinebench does not report the MHz correctly when overclocking.  A competitive CPU and good bang for the buck.

 

 

The unlocked multiplier and power limits allow these CPUs to reach their full potential.

4+ GHz when fully loaded across all 8 threads.  No AVX instructions so they run fairly cool too.

 

[nootnoot1277]

7 hours ago, unclewebb said:

The W3680 and W3690 are basically identical.  They came down the same assembly line and ended up in slightly different boxes.  It is possible that the W3690 is slightly better binned so maybe the W3690 can run the same speed with slightly less voltage.  When you are producing CPUs by the millions, getting them in a box and shipping them is the only thing that is really important so the amount of binning was probably minimal.

 

On a Dell motherboard that does not have CPU voltage adjustment in the bios, both of these CPUs are going to reach approximately 4000 MHz to 4133 MHz.  It is possible that the higher default voltage of the W3680 might actually be an advantage when overclocking the multiplier with ThrottleStop.  The more default voltage the better.  When shopping on EBay, I would save my money and go with the cheaper W3680.

 

Here is how my Dell T3500 - W3680 looks after getting a helping hand from ThrottleStop.  Cinebench does not report the MHz correctly when overclocking.  A competitive CPU and good bang for the buck.

 

 

The unlocked multiplier and power limits allow these CPUs to reach their full potential.

4+ GHz when fully loaded across all 8 threads.  No AVX instructions so they run fairly cool too.

 

thank you so much for such a clear and evidence filled response. im glad im not the only one on here that knows about throttlestop, it seems most people are unaware of its existence.
After seeing your results im going to get the W3680 which is $50 (AUD) cheaper than the W3690 so now i can actually afford to get a decent cooler for this toasty CPU haha.

[unclewebb]

3 hours ago, nootnoot1277 said:

im glad im not the only one on here that knows about throttlestop

You could say that I have some inside knowledge about ThrottleStop.

I am the guy that wrote it! 

 

TS is a little more well known in the laptop community.  It helps bring out the best from X58 motherboards that do not have any overclocking options in the bios.  Most Dell desktop boards are in that category.  I heard older versions of Intel XTU could be used to overclock W3680 / W3690 CPUs on X58 motherboards.  I tried a recent version of Intel XTU but it did not let me change anything on the T3500 so I gave up using it.  Getting 4 GHz Prime stable took a matter of seconds.  4.13 GHz Prime stable was not possible but that speed was fine for most other tasks. 

 

Looking forward to seeing what your new W3680 is capable of.  Amazing how competitive these old CPUs are considering how many years ago they were first released.

 

For cooling, I used the stock T3500 cooler.  It is a very well designed heatsink but Dell dropped the ball when they decided not to include a proper fan with it.  Sure there is a case fan that blows air in the general direction of this heatsink but that is not the proper way to cool an overclocked CPU.  I found an old Antec case fan and tied it on ghetto style with 3 plastic cable ties.  It works great. 

 

 

That simple mod dropped core temps under load by over 30°C.  I should probably clean it up someday.  I also lowered the voltage going to it by rearranging some wires in the molex plug.  I think it is at 7V instead of 12V.  Cool and quiet and cheap.  Perfect.  The case fan blows air towards the other side of this heatsink and the Antec fan helps pull air through the heatsink.  

[nootnoot1277]

10 hours ago, unclewebb said:

You could say that I have some inside knowledge about ThrottleStop.

I am the guy that wrote it! 

 

TS is a little more well known in the laptop community.  It helps bring out the best from X58 motherboards that do not have any overclocking options in the bios.  Most Dell desktop boards are in that category.  I heard older versions of Intel XTU could be used to overclock W3680 / W3690 CPUs on X58 motherboards.  I tried a recent version of Intel XTU but it did not let me change anything on the T3500 so I gave up using it.  Getting 4 GHz Prime stable took a matter of seconds.  4.13 GHz Prime stable was not possible but that speed was fine for most other tasks. 

 

Looking forward to seeing what your new W3680 is capable of.  Amazing how competitive these old CPUs are considering how many years ago they were first released.

 

For cooling, I used the stock T3500 cooler.  It is a very well designed heatsink but Dell dropped the ball when they decided not to include a proper fan with it.  Sure there is a case fan that blows air in the general direction of this heatsink but that is not the proper way to cool an overclocked CPU.  I found an old Antec case fan and tied it on ghetto style with 3 plastic cable ties.  It works great. 

 

 

That simple mod dropped core temps under load by over 30°C.  I should probably clean it up someday.  I also lowered the voltage going to it by rearranging some wires in the molex plug.  I think it is at 7V instead of 12V.  Cool and quiet and cheap.  Perfect.  The case fan blows air towards the other side of this heatsink and the Antec fan helps pull air through the heatsink.  

Wow thats awesome what a coincidence.

It's true IntelXTU did allow for X58 overclocking but in recent versions they removed support for older sockets so in short, their trying to make people upgrade to a newer platform.

Im Very keen on getting this W3680 up and overclocked when i have the money #studentlife.

Dell generally do or atleast they used to, use good heatsinks which they... didnt do with the XPS 9000 because this heatsink i have sucks im hitting 75c with the i7 920 while gaming and watching youtube on my 2nd monitor so im gonna try and get a 2nd hand Noctua cooler of some form or just a cheap decent 130w tdp heatsink.

thats a pretty big temp drop 30c so definetly worth a little ghetto fix haha

Oh also seen as you seem fairly knowladgable regarding the topic, ive been advised by some people to put some small heatsink's on the VRM's (ill attach them with thermal pads) and replace all the thermal paste under the motherboard heatsinks as to not kill the mobo with the overclocks, do you think it will be alright running the w3680?

EDIT:
ALSO i was just thinking,the current CPU in this Dell does reach 75ish degrees C and i was assuming i was going to have to upgrade my heatsink for the W3680 because i assumed the i7 was lower TDP but i just went and studied the spec sheets for both the i7 920 and W3680 and i noticed that due to it being older the i7 was built on the 45nm lithography and is 130w TDP while the Xeon is built on 32nm and is also 130w TDP so theoretically speaking the Xeon *should* actually run cooler at stock while being faster due to the architectural improvements which will hopefully allow for some small overclock's on this heatsink as i cant get confirmation right now if this mobo will take a standard 1366 heatsink, some people say yes some say no but i cant find any definite answer so as much as i cant be arsed to i may have to pull the mobo out and check the backplate.

 

[unclewebb]

I have had some 45nm CPUs on this motherboard and the 32nm W3680 definitely runs cooler.  These Intel CPUs are all rated to run reliably up to 100°C so I wouldn't worry too much about temperatures until you get your new CPU installed.

 

VRM heatsinks are a good idea but I never bother.  No problems so far.

[nootnoot1277]

On 7/9/2018 at 6:06 AM, unclewebb said:

I have had some 45nm CPUs on this motherboard and the 32nm W3680 definitely runs cooler.  These Intel CPUs are all rated to run reliably up to 100°C so I wouldn't worry too much about temperatures until you get your new CPU installed.

 

VRM heatsinks are a good idea but I never bother.  No problems so far.

hey just thought i'd let you know
My W3680 arrived and its a killer peformer (atleast in BF1 so far it is haha) i got a nice Gammaxx 400 which for the price actually keeps it really cool with a push pull config. Anyway ive ran into a bit of an issue, out of sheer curiosity i wanted to use throttlestop to bump up my multiplier and see how i could improve my cinebench score after seeing yours score in the 900's. well the issue is in throttlestop i can only change the multiplier from 25 up to 26T (3.4ghz roughly) which to me isnt a big difference to me which was disappointing and i cant find out how to get it any higher. ideally id like to hit 4ghz but this is sort of holding me back.

[unclewebb]

A setting of 26T tells the CPU you want to use Turbo Boost.  To tell the CPU how much turbo boost, you need to open up the TRL window and increase the turbo ratio limits there.  Set all 6 of them to 30 and your CPU should run at ~4000 MHz (30 x 133.3 MHz).  Very simple.  Also click on the TPL button and bump the TDP up to 190 or 200 Watts.

 

Without voltage control in the bios, this is about as fast as you will be able to run a W3680 reliably.  4133 MHz might be possible for some light duty benchmarks.  

 

[nootnoot1277]

5 hours ago, unclewebb said:

A setting of 26T tells the CPU you want to use Turbo Boost.  To tell the CPU how much turbo boost, you need to open up the TRL window and increase the turbo ratio limits there.  Set all 6 of them to 30 and your CPU should run at ~4000 MHz (30 x 133.3 MHz).  Very simple.  Also click on the TPL button and bump the TDP up to 190 or 200 Watts.

 

Without voltage control in the bios, this is about as fast as you will be able to run a W3680 reliably.  4133 MHz might be possible for some light duty benchmarks.  

 

it works perfectly thankyou for that extra information.
i couldnt get it to work at first but it turns out i had just missed the really obvious 'TURN ON' button
with all multipliers set to 30 i got a Cinebench score of 867 putting it ahead of an i7 4770k which i am quite happy with

[unclewebb]

13 hours ago, nootnoot1277 said:

with all multipliers set to 30

Your Cinebench score seems a little lower than it should be.  When Cinebench is running, keep ThrottleStop open and make sure that all of the multipliers are staying at 30.00 for the entire benchmark.  The ThrottleStop On Top feature is handy when testing.

 

If there is any throttling, you will need to increase either the TDP or TDC or both.  Somewhere around 180 - 200 Watts for TDP and 110 or 120 or 130 for TDC should be sufficient.  You can adjust these while Cinebench is running.  Use whatever it takes to reach maximum speed.  These old CPUs are built like tanks so pretty hard to hurt one.

 

Running this technology at 4000 MHz is like asking a thoroughbred to pull an apple cart.  With more voltage, the 32nm Westmere CPUs can really fly.

 

]  

[nootnoot1277]

14 hours ago, unclewebb said:

Your Cinebench score seems a little lower than it should be.  When Cinebench is running, keep ThrottleStop open and make sure that all of the multipliers are staying at 30.00 for the entire benchmark.  The ThrottleStop On Top feature is handy when testing.

 

If there is any throttling, you will need to increase either the TDP or TDC or both.  Somewhere around 180 - 200 Watts for TDP and 110 or 120 or 130 for TDC should be sufficient.  You can adjust these while Cinebench is running.  Use whatever it takes to reach maximum speed.  These old CPUs are built like tanks so pretty hard to hurt one.

 

Running this technology at 4000 MHz is like asking a thoroughbred to pull an apple cart.  With more voltage, the 32nm Westmere CPUs can really fly.

 

]  

i see what you mean.
well i went ahead and bumped up the TDC to 120 which i hadnt touched before and left the TDP at 190 where i had it yesterday and i got a score of 890 so definitely and improvement. there was no throttling and all cores stayed at a multiplier of 30

[unclewebb]

How much memory do you have?  Is it in triple channel config?  I installed a fresh copy of Windows 10 the other day so I will have to give that a try and see if the bench numbers have changed any.  It activated without any problems using the COA code on the top of the T3500.

[App4that]

Holy cow, other T3500 enthusiasts like myself. 

 

I grabbed a X5660 (6c/12t) CPU for 30 bucks shipped off Newegg, you can save a few bucks going to Aliexpress. I like the X5660 because it's the best price to performace, but a X5675 or X5680 will be better binned, just more expensive. 

 

 

I installed TS but I can't adjust the turbo ratio limits, made sure the "turn on" button was pressed. T3500 and X5660, Windows 10

[unclewebb]

The X5660 is a locked CPU.  The multiplier is not adjustable.

 

The Core i7-980X, Core i7-990X, Xeon W3680 and Xeon W3690 are the ones with an unlocked multiplier and unlocked TDP / TDC turbo power limits.  Those four are all going to overclock pretty much the same.  Advantage goes to the W3680 because they can be found the cheapest ($75) on Ebay, etc.

[bimmerman]

Yep. The X5675 is great if you can adjust BCLK (and are ok with the limited multipliers available), the W3680 is a great chip for either multiplier or BCLK overclocking, and isn't dependent on either method.

[nootnoot1277]

On 8/30/2018 at 6:32 AM, unclewebb said:

How much memory do you have?  Is it in triple channel config?  I installed a fresh copy of Windows 10 the other day so I will have to give that a try and see if the bench numbers have changed any.  It activated without any problems using the COA code on the top of the T3500.

im running 6x2GB 1066's in Triple Channel.

[unclewebb]

On 8/29/2018 at 4:54 AM, nootnoot1277 said:

i got a score of 890

That is not so bad.  With a fresh install of Windows 10, I am getting about 905.  I also have 12 GB of memory but I have 3 x 4 GB in triple channel at 1333 MHz.

 

Not sure how I got the previous 938 in Cinebench.  Windows 10 is maybe 5 points less compared to Windows 7 but something else is going on.  I might have to play musical memory to see if I can find the lost Cinebench points.  Not too important, just curious.  

[Intelfreak]

Xeon W3680 can go to over 1000 CB points. It just a rebranded I7 980X. At 4.42 GHz i get 1027 points.

 

[unclewebb]

23 hours ago, Intelfreak said:

Xeon W3680 can go to over 1000 CB points.

Sure a W3680 can do this on a motherboard that has voltage control in the bios.  Unfortunately, most Dell motherboards do not let you adjust the CPU voltage.  At default voltage, most of these CPUs are going to max out at either 4000 MHz or 4133 MHz.

[unclewebb]

- delete -

[BlazeElPadrino]

On 8/27/2018 at 8:33 PM, unclewebb said:

A setting of 26T tells the CPU you want to use Turbo Boost.  To tell the CPU how much turbo boost, you need to open up the TRL window and increase the turbo ratio limits there.  Set all 6 of them to 30 and your CPU should run at ~4000 MHz (30 x 133.3 MHz).  Very simple.  Also click on the TPL button and bump the TDP up to 190 or 200 Watts.

 

Without voltage control in the bios, this is about as fast as you will be able to run a W3680 reliably.  4133 MHz might be possible for some light duty benchmarks.  

 

First of all thanks for your hard work regarding ThrottleStop! It's a really handy tool to tweak any Intel CPU!

 

I'm currently tuning my HP Z400 build and I also got the W3680 to play around with it as a hobby.

 

I can get the chip up to 4.1 GHz (31 Turbo multiplier for all cores but working at 30.4~30.6 at load) with HT off and TPL settings of 135/110. I would like to push it higher but the stock cooler I got with the machine wasn't the high performance HP one and I'm getting around 85 °C under Intel Burn Test load and around 75 °C under Aida64 stability test, so I would like to know if an Hyper 212 LED would be an upgrade to my cooler or should I invest into a Corsair H45 liquid cooler. My main concern with the liquid cooler is that with an air cooler the fan blows air over the VRM chips but with the water cooler the radiator blocks the airflow into the VRM zone. Do you monitor your VRM temps? How are they considering the power limits you use? Can your CPU under those power limits endure IBT or Linpack stress without throttling leaving HT on?

 

Thanks in advance!

[nootnoot1277]

2 hours ago, BlazeElPadrino said:

First of all thanks for your hard work regarding ThrottleStop! It's a really handy tool to tweak any Intel CPU!

 

I'm currently tuning my HP Z400 build and I also got the W3680 to play around with it as a hobby.

 

I can get the chip up to 4.1 GHz (31 Turbo multiplier for all cores but working at 30.4~30.6 at load) with HT off and TPL settings of 135/110. I would like to push it higher but the stock cooler I got with the machine wasn't the high performance HP one and I'm getting around 85 °C under Intel Burn Test load and around 75 °C under Aida64 stability test, so I would like to know if an Hyper 212 LED would be an upgrade to my cooler or should I invest into a Corsair H45 liquid cooler. My main concern with the liquid cooler is that with an air cooler the fan blows air over the VRM chips but with the water cooler the radiator blocks the airflow into the VRM zone. Do you monitor your VRM temps? How are they considering the power limits you use? Can your CPU under those power limits endure IBT or Linpack stress without throttling leaving HT on?

 

Thanks in advance!

ive got a Gammaxx 400 on my W3680 @3.99ghz and its working great. really only hits 70c when its being properly stressed and that's a cheap air cooler so a good quality air cooler should keep you quite low in the temps with your OC

[BlazeElPadrino]

7 hours ago, nootnoot1277 said:

ive got a Gammaxx 400 on my W3680 @3.99ghz and its working great. really only hits 70c when its being properly stressed and that's a cheap air cooler so a good quality air cooler should keep you quite low in the temps with your OC

Thanks! I've just watched a video comparing the cooling performance of the Gammaxx 400 Vs the Hyper 212 LED and they're roughly equal.

 

Would it be possible for you to run Intel Burn Test or Linpack stress to check your max temps? For IBT you would need to enable NET Framework 3.5 into Windows Components for it to run, but it does provide a pretty heavy and extreme use case to evaluate cooling and stability.

 

Thanks for your help!

[nootnoot1277]

15 hours ago, BlazeElPadrino said:

Thanks! I've just watched a video comparing the cooling performance of the Gammaxx 400 Vs the Hyper 212 LED and they're roughly equal.

 

Would it be possible for you to run Intel Burn Test or Linpack stress to check your max temps? For IBT you would need to enable NET Framework 3.5 into Windows Components for it to run, but it does provide a pretty heavy and extreme use case to evaluate cooling and stability.

 

Thanks for your help!

After 10 runs in Intel Burn Test:
This is with 2 120mm fans on the Gammaxx 400 in a case with pretty poor airflow.