Subzero + Mineral oil setup : How cool can you go.

[CypherQc]

Title says it all Linus. Put your people on it.

 

what we want to know is :

 

does the combination with mineral oil stop the condensation?

how cold does it get?

 

 

Edit : Not a subzero oil loop. I mean a subzero loop, submerged in oil to minimize the condensation 

[lewdicrous]

4 minutes ago, Kodiac said:

does the combination with mineral oil stop the condensation?

Condensation forms because of the moisture in the air liquefies on cold components (colder than ambient temps), I don't see how adding mineral oil would help.

[CypherQc]

1 minute ago, lewdicrous said:

Condensation forms because of the moisture in the air liquefies on cold components (colder than ambient temps), I don't see how adding mineral oil would help.

Cuz there’s no water in oil?

[lewdicrous]

1 minute ago, Kodiac said:

Cuz there’s no water in oil?

And there's no water in liquid nitrogen, but you still get condensation.

Quote

Condensation forms because of the moisture in the air liquefies on cold components

Did you understand what I said? Moisture from the air, that means humidity, water vapor, dew, etc

[Imbellis]

3 minutes ago, Kodiac said:

Cuz there’s no water in oil?

It's the water in the air that condenses around the loop - not anything from the loop its self.

[CypherQc]

1 minute ago, Imbellis said:

It's the water in the air that condenses around the loop - not anything from the loop its self.

Exactly. So submerge the loop in oil too.

[lewdicrous]

3 minutes ago, Kodiac said:

Exactly. So submerge the loop in oil too.

That's just highly impractical..

Why not just submerge the whole computer in mineral oil, like what Linus already did (with Luke, but we don't talk about him anymore)

 

[Imbellis]

4 minutes ago, Kodiac said:

Exactly. So submerge the loop in oil too.

Ah, both I and @lewdicrous thought you were talking about a sub-zero oil-loop.

Yes, It would work for cooler temperatures than the surrounding air (safe against condensation); however, if I remember correctly, mineral oil freezes at ~22F/ -5C. You wouldn't be able to go that far sub.

[CypherQc]

1 minute ago, lewdicrous said:

That's just highly impractical..

Who said it had to be practical lmao

[CypherQc]

1 minute ago, Imbellis said:

Ah, both I and @lewdicrous thought you were talking about a sub-zero oil-loop.

Yes, It would work for cooler temperatures than air; however, if I remember correctly, mineral oil freezes at ~26F/ -5C. You wouldn't be able to go that far sub.

Hmm..  wonder if there’s some kind of replacement that could work. 

[lewdicrous]

16 minutes ago, Kodiac said:

Hmm..  wonder if there’s some kind of replacement that could work. 

Dry ice in rubbing alcohol reaches around -110F/-79C so that won't work either.

If you replace mineral oil with glycerol then that won't work either cause its freezing point is around −36F/−38C

 

[CypherQc]

1 minute ago, lewdicrous said:

Dry ice in rubbing alcohol reaches around -110F/-79C so that won't work either.

If you replace mineral oil with glycerol then that won't work either cause its freezing point is around −36F/−37.8C

There's this concept, but that doesn't eliminate the condensation. what might work is if you insulate the loop

Glycerol + chiller could work. Chiller on it’s own only reaches -29C

[lewdicrous]

3 minutes ago, Kodiac said:

Glycerol + chiller could work. Chiller on it’s own only reaches -29C

Linus already used a chiller to cool a computer

 

[CypherQc]

2 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

Linus already used a chiller to cool a computer

 

Yeah, with lots of condensation. Which made me think, if you submerge everything except the radiator in oil, it would negate that.

[lewdicrous]

1 minute ago, Kodiac said:

Yeah, with lots of condensation. Which made me think, if you submerge everything except the radiator in oil, it would negate that.

So what you're proposing is combining the chiller PC with the mineral oil PC (I kept a link to the whole playlist in an earlier post)

If so then the final product would have to be extremely refined just so it doesn't look like it was made by Victor Frankenstein

[CypherQc]

5 hours ago, lewdicrous said:

So what you're proposing is combining the chiller PC with the mineral oil PC (I kept a link to the whole playlist in an earlier post)

If so then the final product would have to be extremely refined just so it doesn't look like it was made by Victor Frankenstein

I don’t really care about how it looks, I just want to know what is possible. Then we will see if people ask for it and mfg will  provide options in many many years. 

[andrewmp6]

The whole mineral oil pc thing started 15 to 20 years ago and never took off really.The price of the oil and the case has to be almost bullet proof to with stand the weight and not crack.You can never use the parts in anything else they get a oily film you'll never get off.The chillers had their day also,But now with use delided intels and water cooling cooling like it does no they are really not needed for high over clocks.Let alone the power the old school chillers used back then.Back in those days water cooling was a car heater core rigged up with a fish tank pump lol.To day we have monster size rads and water pumps that can flow amazing numbers or run 2 inline.

[lewdicrous]

1 hour ago, Kodiac said:

I don’t really care about how it looks, I just want to know what is possible. Then we will see if people ask for it and mfg will  provide options in many many years. 

As @andrewmp6 correctly pointed out, these waves of ideas have already passed; "exotic" cooling never became a thing because we don't need it.

There's no point in wasting money and time on it, unless you're running the LHC in your room. Normal everyday users won't need this kind of cooling and those who have heavy workflows use custom loops/AIOs, which work well.

 

If you factor in the cost and maintenance of said project, then that's enough to scare anyone away, not to mention the fact that you can turn your PC from a very well built machine to a very expensive paper weight in just seconds, which isn't something people want. In addition to this, you need to run your PC 24/7 if you're going to use LN2, for example, and that in itself will raise your electricity bill by a noticeable amount.

 

If you want to know what happens, and no one has ever done it before, then maybe save up some money and do it yourself. You don't seem to care about how it looks or how it performs, all you seem to care about is the condensation.

 

 

This video might change your mind

Spoiler

 

 

[CypherQc]

8 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

If you want to know what happens, and no one has ever done it before, then maybe save up some money and do it yourself. You don't seem to care about how it looks or how it performs, all you seem to care about is the condensation.

Maybe I will if I find an old ac unit. 

 

Also great video

[lewdicrous]

3 hours ago, Kodiac said:

Maybe I will if I find an old ac unit. 

 

Also great video

You might find working units in metal scrap yards or cheap ones on ebay

Document your journey, write down the temps before and after the modification (maybe with pics or vids too), maybe document the how different methods of insulation work (either together or against each other) and maybe compare different kinds of cooling to see which is best for which scenario.

 

All the best!

[SolarNova]

Or, you could just seal up the "case" you would use for the mineral oil and pump nitrogen in, Creating a dry air environment that would stop condensation forming.

 

Most people create a chiller box to chill the surrounding air to sub zero aswell, or do the above.

 

I have done a tonn of research and planning into sub zero builds, (not Ln2 or DiCE). Some things you need ot know about building a chiller.

Most AC units nowadays use r134a referigerant, which boils at only -26c. With loss of efficency as you get closer to that temp taken into account, the best you can hope for in a converted DIY AC to chiller build is -15c coolant in cool ambient envirnments (like in the winter)

Idealy you would want an R22 bassed AC for conversion, that boils at -41c, which may net you around -30c coolant temps.

This is all assumiong you have a suitably overpowerd refrigeration system (very high BTU AC) vs your PC's heat output.

 

The best thing to do is build a chilling system from scratch, a cheap refrigerant that has a nice low boiling point is Propene (r1270) which boils at -47c, or Propane (r290) which boils at -42c. Use a plate heat exchanger instead of a rad style evap like those in an AC and your golden.

[bloodaxe34]

Just out of curiosity has anyone ever tried chain TEC's?  Put a water block on the CPU, then have a series of water blocks and HSF's with a TEC sandwiched between them?  If each TEC can pump say 30 watts of heat and you chained enough in series, in theory you could pull more heat out then a the CPU could put in, your coolant could go subzero at least till it's freezes.  And if one water block HSF pair didn't have a TEC at the hot end it could work as a moderator.  Or other ways to moderate it.