UPS Woes

[Donut417]

I have a Cyber Power 1350PFC LCD. Its give me a Fault F04 Error. Cyberpowers FAQ section as went AWOL. So Im hoping you fine folks can help. Basically I was just using my PC like normal and it turns off, giving a Fault Symbol and a F04 error code. Doing a little research online lead me to think its was the Inverter OR the batteries. I was hoping batteries. NOPE, batteries check out fine, I went to a specialty store that sells batteries and bulbs, and according to them the voltage was fine. The UPS was bought back in 2011 and I did have it replaced under warranty once. So im not 100% how old this unit is. I doubt its still under warranty. 

 

Any other troubleshooting steps? If not Id like some suggestions for a replacement. One of the reason I bought this unit was because of Active PFC, because the Corsair PSU I have requires actual sine waves rather than fake. Not sure if that hold water, but at the time thats what the research told me. Id like to stay under $200 for replacement, and would like a some what comprable unit as I like the fact I had a little bit of a run time 15-20 min and if push comes to shove I can save some of the battery power in the case of an outage because DTE's infrastructure has gone to hell this year and be able to charge phones and shit. 

[W-L]

10 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

I have a Cyber Power 1350PFC LCD. Its give me a Fault F04 Error. Cyberpowers FAQ section as went AWOL. So Im hoping you fine folks can help. Basically I was just using my PC like normal and it turns off, giving a Fault Symbol and a F04 error code. Doing a little research online lead me to think its was the Inverter OR the batteries. I was hoping batteries. NOPE, batteries check out fine, I went to a specialty store that sells batteries and bulbs, and according to them the voltage was fine. The UPS was bought back in 2011 and I did have it replaced under warranty once. So im not 100% how old this unit is. I doubt its still under warranty. 

 

Any other troubleshooting steps? If not Id like some suggestions for a replacement. One of the reason I bought this unit was because of Active PFC, because the Corsair PSU I have requires actual sine waves rather than fake. Not sure if that hold water, but at the time thats what the research told me. Id like to stay under $200 for replacement, and would like a some what comprable unit as I like the fact I had a little bit of a run time 15-20 min and if push comes to shove I can save some of the battery power in the case of an outage because DTE's infrastructure has gone to hell this year and be able to charge phones and shit. 

It mentions it as being an internal fault with not much detail, it might be as simple as a fuse or something going inside the unit but hard to say what it can be. 

Quote

6. FAULT: This icon appears if there is a problem with the UPS. Press the POWER button to turn off the UPS.

F01: Battery Mode or AC/Utility Power Mode Overload fault (Turn on the UPS again.)

F02: Battery Output Short fault (Turn on the UPS again.)

F03: Charger Fault (Contact CyberPower Systems for support.)

F04: Internal Fault (Contact CyberPower Systems for support.)

 

-Moved to Case and Power Supplies-

[Razor Blade]

F04 on an APC UPS just indicates "internal fault" which could mean so many things... If you unplug the unit and remove the batteries for a few minutes does the error clear?

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, Razor Blade said:

F04 on an APC UPS just indicates "internal fault" which could mean so many things... If you unplug the unit and remove the batteries for a few minutes does the error clear?

Im testing now. I had the batteries out and the unit unplugs as I made a trek to see if the batteries were bad. I have my laptop plugged in to it now, as Im not going to risk my gaming rig. 

[Razor Blade]

7 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Im testing now. I had the batteries out and the unit unplugs as I made a trek to see if the batteries were bad. I have my laptop plugged in to it now, as Im not going to risk my gaming rig. 

going by this...

 

http://www.apc.com/salestools/JHSH-74ABL6/JHSH-74ABL6_R1_EN.pdf

 

I know it is a different model but a lot of manufacturers use the same codes across models... so F04 could also mean "clamp short". Googling that I found this...

 

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30738150-Electrical-Apc-UPS-F04-clamp-short-Is-it-junk

 

Maybe it is the batteries... do you have a way to load test them?

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, Razor Blade said:

Maybe it is the batteries... do you have a way to load test them?

As I stated above I took them to a specialty store that sells spherical types of batteries like this. They said it tested fine. So far with my laptop its working fine, but using Aida 64 to put load on it, im only using 113 watts. I think my gaming rig on idle uses like 130 watts. So im not sure if its a load issue or not. 

[Razor Blade]

6 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

As I stated above I took them to a specialty store that sells spherical types of batteries like this. They said it tested fine. So far with my laptop its working fine, but using Aida 64 to put load on it, im only using 113 watts. I think my gaming rig on idle uses like 130 watts. So im not sure if its a load issue or not. 

I see...how old are those batteries and when you took it to the battery place, did they just pop a meter on the terminals or did they actually put a load on the batteries? Load testing doesn't test voltage at rest, it tests voltage drop during a load. You could have a battery that measures 12 volts but the minute you put a load on it, it drops flat on it's face. 

 

While the UPS is running with your laptop and you unplug it, are the batteries holding okay?

[Donut417]

9 minutes ago, Razor Blade said:

I see...how old are those batteries and when you took it to the battery place, did they just pop a meter on the terminals or did they actually put a load on the batteries? Load testing doesn't test voltage at rest, it tests voltage drop during a load. You could have a battery that measures 12 volts but the minute you put a load on it, it drops flat on it's face. 

 

While the UPS is running with your laptop and you unplug it, are the batteries holding okay?

Unplugged it and the UPS shut off with out a sound. Did the test twice to be sure. It turns off. So you thinking I should just say fuck it and buy new batteries? Because that would be the best solution. Now I just gotta figure out the best place to get them. 

[Razor Blade]

7 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Unplugged it and the UPS shut off with out a sound. Did the test twice to be sure. It turns off. So you thinking I should just say fuck it and buy new batteries? Because that would be the best solution. Now I just gotta figure out the best place to get them. 

I was looking for batteries a while ago for my UPS. Digikey would be a good source if you want something like Panasonic or Yuasa batteries. If you don't really care, you could go with good old Amazon. The last place I would go would be that batteries+bulbs place...you'll likely way overpay for any batteries you get there.

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, Razor Blade said:

The last place I would go would be that batteries+bulbs place

They were too lazy to test the batteries properly any way. They lost my business. I dont do stupidity well, I work in fast food, my level of patients for dumb people is non existent. Thanks for you help. 

[JokerProduction]

I deal with UPS's at work all the time and I wonder if they don't cause more service calls than if people didn't run one.  Especially since very few people do any sort of preventative maintenance on them, they just buy them & shove them under the desk and expect them to work for the next 10 years.  I see it as just adding another component (and point of failure) to a already complex system. Every time I open one up its always filled with a disgusting amount of dust and the batteries are swollen and cracked.

 

It makes sense for the manufacture to only warranty for a year as the batteries that are used only have a 4 year shelf life when not in use(lucky to get 2 years in service) and you have no idea how long your UPS was sitting on a shelf in some warehouse before you bought it.  When dealing with critical systems that need ups's and can't go down the batteries are inspected and tested every 3 months and replaced at max every 2 years.

 

Usually failures are battery related but I have seen that same fault code and its usually one of the boards inside has fried and is usually beyond economical repair so its better to just buy a new one.

 

We use Discover batteries for replacements (Beleave you will need Part# D1272 for the cpf1350) https://discoverbattery.com/en/product-search/view/D1272

The replacement batteries always last longer than the originals as I'm sure their sourcing the cheapest they can find as i've noticed the brand is not always the same brand despite being the same model of UPS.

 

We use to always source APC ups's but find the cyberpowers ones to be more reliable and I solely order these now.

 

And again another perspective is that maybe that $200 ups did its job and protected its load and saved your 1000's of $ in electronics...

[Donut417]

Just wanted to update every one. I got the batteries from Amazon today. Everything seems to be working fine now. One thing I noticed when I did the self test is the new batteries after are still at 100% when the old batteries would drop to 80% or lower. Now I just gotta wait for the county or city to do their waste disposal drive, so I can unload the old batteries. 

[Donut417]

Welp. It did it again. I decied to change the outlet Im connected to. The reason, It worked fine on the one I was connected to before I changed where my desk was in my room. Im almost thinking the outlet is bad. I plugged it in to an outlet my PC was connected to before. Im going to see if thats the case, if not, Im not sure what Im going to do. Not sure If I can return the batteries once they are used. Im guessing I could. But Im not sure what to do about this UPS. 

[Razor Blade]

4 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Welp. It did it again. I decied to change the outlet Im connected to. The reason, It worked fine on the one I was connected to before I changed where my desk was in my room. Im almost thinking the outlet is bad. I plugged it in to an outlet my PC was connected to before. Im going to see if thats the case, if not, Im not sure what Im going to do. Not sure If I can return the batteries once they are used. Im guessing I could. But Im not sure what to do about this UPS. 

I guess it is possible. When the UPS is plugged into the outlet in question does it ever indicate that it is on battery? Are you using PowerChute? What does it say when you look at the power event history?

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, Razor Blade said:

I guess it is possible. When the UPS is plugged into the outlet in question does it ever indicate that it is on battery? Are you using PowerChute? What does it say when you look at the power event history?

Nope doesnt say its on battery. Though Ive had to replace one outlet in my room before due to the outlet going bad. The outlets are at least 20 years old. The wiring in my room dates back to the 1950s, we had an interesting time putting a new LED light in my room. Im thinking the outlet could have a wiring fault, as the one outlet I replaced was wired wrong. If not I guess Ill go back to using a surge protector for now. UPS's are not cheap. Unless I can find a decent one on ebay, seeing how I got replacement batteries. 

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, Razor Blade said:

I guess it is possible. When the UPS is plugged into the outlet in question does it ever indicate that it is on battery? Are you using PowerChute? What does it say when you look at the power event history?

Im not wasting any more time with this. I took the batteries out of the UPS and plugged it in and turned it on. IT shows a full charge on the non existent batteries. Plus It failed plugged in to the other outlet. Im going to send the new batteries back to amazon and just have to buy a new UPS. 

 

Any recommendations? My power supply requires active PFC and my machine has a 650watt PSU on top of I need at least 1 of my 23" monitors plugged in to battery power. Id like a 10 or 15 min run time if I could just because Ive gotten lucky with power failures that only last that long. 

[Razor Blade]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

Any recommendations? My power supply requires active PFC and my machine has a 650watt PSU on top of I need at least 1 of my 23" monitors plugged in to battery power. Id like a 10 or 15 min run time if I could just because Ive gotten lucky with power failures that only last that long. 

Do you have brownouts where you live? If the power where you are isn't always the greatest, look for a line-interactive UPS. Before I got my surplus line-interactive Dell unit, I was looking at a rack mount UPS this is one I stumbled on and had on my list of considerations...

 

https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Line-Interactive-Outlets-SMC1500T/dp/B00YXW6MFI

 

It is a pure sine wave unit also. Although 1500VA is probably more than you really need...but it isn't too bad for the price.

 

If you want something completely overkill that completely conditions power and you have frequent surges/brownouts, you could get an online ups which actually runs off battery all the time therefore never has to switch. Though keep in mind those are going to be the most expensive and the batteries are critical to their operation so plan on changing the batteries out every X number of years.

 

In both line-interactive and online units, they're going to likely all be actively cooled so they will be louder than an standby consumer unit.

[Donut417]

3 hours ago, Razor Blade said:

Do you have brownouts where you live? If the power where you are isn't always the greatest, look for a line-interactive UPS. Before I got my surplus line-interactive Dell unit, I was looking at a rack mount UPS this is one I stumbled on and had on my list of considerations...

 

https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Line-Interactive-Outlets-SMC1500T/dp/B00YXW6MFI

 

It is a pure sine wave unit also. Although 1500VA is probably more than you really need...but it isn't too bad for the price.

 

If you want something completely overkill that completely conditions power and you have frequent surges/brownouts, you could get an online ups which actually runs off battery all the time therefore never has to switch. Though keep in mind those are going to be the most expensive and the batteries are critical to their operation so plan on changing the batteries out every X number of years.

 

In both line-interactive and online units, they're going to likely all be actively cooled so they will be louder than an standby consumer unit.

Brownouts only on occasion. We have had power outages more this year than any. My current UPS also conditioned the power to an extent and did have a fan. I was thinking of getting one from APC. Not sure which of the UPS manufacturers are good. I really don't want to spend more than $200. As I spent $170 for the last one.