Can you fix the hardest audio/sound problem on the planet?

[Twister]

My Z-5500 Logitech speaker system stopped working, was totally dead, I thought it had died. Zero sound coming out from the speakers.

So I bought a Pre-Used one, same system, the seller told me they worked fine before he sold me them. I plugged them in, it's the exact same problem as my previous speakers.

I thought to myself "Bummer, I have 2 speaker systems now with the EXACT same faultry, what are the odds of that..."

 

So I went off to my Computer store, and bought a brand new packaged Logitech Z-906 speaker system. Plugged them in, installed, and yay they worked. For 1-2 days.

Then they were lifeless dead too. Just as my previous speakers. 

 

I said this can't be real, it can't be coincidence, so it must be a problem with my computer or soundcard. I had a friend come over with his PC, whole chassi, different motherboard, different soundcard.

Plugged all of the 3 speaker systems into his desktop aswell, and no sound was coming out. Just total dead.

 

So what the heck is going on?!

Yeah I tried switching cords, try pulling a LONG cable from my kitchen for power source to my speakers in living room, and nothing. Still dead.

 

Any ideas what's going on? What's happening? Why my sound doesn't work? Why it's dead? not powering on? Only thing I haven't tried now is trying a different house. 

 

And if it's really come to that I have to move to another house just to have sound on my PC... well, I don't know what to say. 

[DrThots]

9 minutes ago, Twister said:

My Z-5500 Logitech speaker system stopped working, was totally dead, I thought it had died. Zero sound coming out from the speakers.

So I bought a Pre-Used one, same system, the seller told me they worked fine before he sold me them. I plugged them in, it's the exact same problem as my previous speakers.

I thought to myself "Bummer, I have 2 speaker systems now with the EXACT same faultry, what are the odds of that..."

 

So I went off to my Computer store, and bought a brand new packaged Logitech Z-906 speaker system. Plugged them in, installed, and yay they worked. For 1-2 days.

Then they were lifeless dead too. Just as my previous speakers. 

 

I said this can't be real, it can't be coincidence, so it must be a problem with my computer or soundcard. I had a friend come over with his PC, whole chassi, different motherboard, different soundcard.

Plugged all of the 3 speaker systems into his desktop aswell, and no sound was coming out. Just total dead.

 

So what the heck is going on?!

Yeah I tried switching cords, try pulling a LONG cable from my kitchen for power source to my speakers in living room, and nothing. Still dead.

 

Any ideas what's going on? What's happening? Why my sound doesn't work? Why it's dead? not powering on? Only thing I haven't tried now is trying a different house. 

 

And if it's really come to that I have to move to another house just to have sound on my PC... well, I don't know what to say. 

Maybe you are just the unluckiest person in the world. Maybe go to your friends house and try it there instead of him going to your house. If it works, then there could be something wrong with the power supply in your house, maybe theres a fault in wiring somewhere that could've only effected your room or wherever you place your Computer

[Twister]

But I have tried power sources in all my house with long cords and none have worked. So it's either the house, so only I can do is go to my friends house with my speaker systems and try plug them in there if it works?

 

And if they magically work in my friend's house, then what? I have to buy a new house just to get some sound? Can even a house really effect and cause that you can't have a working sound system? I mean everything else works here... freezer.... fridge... microwave... oven... my computer (PSU).. my tv...playstation.....home cinema...(yes home threatre works)....

[EsaT]

Do speakers show any sign of life or aren't they even powering up?

If they power on, but don't give any sound no matter the signal source (could use phone for example) then sounds like your PC possibly somehow fried signal circuitry of those speaker sets.

[Twister]

1 minute ago, EsaT said:

Do speakers show any sign of life or aren't they even powering up?

If they power on, but don't give any sound no matter the signal source (could use phone for example) then sounds like your PC possibly somehow fried signal circuitry of those speaker sets.

On the Z-906, there's no sign of power. The pod unit has a orange light on the buttons when it gets power, but for me its total blackout.

On the set of Z-5500, the control pod unit gets turned on, but no sound coming out from the speakers. 

 

On both the speaker units (the 5500's and the 906), the BGO cables

(  ) 

 

Gives no static output when they touch anything (including other electronics, chassi, etc.)  -- IE. Total dead.

[Jihakuz]

When problems like this occur, you need to take a look and in all senario's which things are you keeping constant.

From this post you probably have:

• The same speaker type, so do any other sound systems work on your computer.
• Have you configured them properly / plugging them in correctly?
• The cable used is thew same, can you change it?

Sorry if these sound like basic quest but they're what you have to do in these situations.

[Twister]

5 minutes ago, Jihakuz said:

When problems like this occur, you need to take a look and in all senario's which things are you keeping constant.

From this post you probably have:

• The same speaker type, so do any other sound systems work on your computer.
• Have you configured them properly / plugging them in correctly?
• The cable used is thew same, can you change it?

Sorry if these sound like basic quest but they're what you have to do in these situations.

I don't think you have read my thread, and yet you make an reply.

 

I mentioned I have 2 speaker systems. One is this: ( I even have 2 of these systems)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121120 

One is these:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121050

 

2) Yes I have, I had it worked for 10 years previously so I know how to plug in a sound system.

 

3) The cables for each system is from that speakers' unboxing box. ie. I use the z-906 cables followed in that box and the z-5500 cablese followed with that.

[EsaT]

Do you have multimeter?

With 3.5mm to RCA splitter cable could try to check, if there's some weird voltage from motherboard sound outputs.

(both in AC and DC measuring setting)

 

Though any input signal killing also power supply of speakers would be far reached.

But that control pod is surely connected to input/signal logic board.
 

Also hard to see if for some reason soemthing in mains voltage would be killing only speakers.

Those certainly aren't without some line filtering.

 

Original ten year old Z-5500 could certainly have broken up because of "natural causes".

But also new Z-906 dying in few days...

Though Google image search for "Logitech Z-906 repair" gives some results in eevblog for failing PSUs with some "nicely charred" PCBs.

 

 

These things are really hard in "remote support", so would be good if you could find some electronics hobbyer, or some electrician who's done TV repairs etc to help to find out what's happened.

[anothertom]

47 minutes ago, Twister said:

I don't think you have read my thread, and yet you make an reply.

So what troubleshooting steps did you go through with the first and second 5500 systems and the third z906 system?

 

It's all very well saying "it's dead", but if you don't tell us what steps you went through to find out that it's dead then we may as well shout into a hurricane, for all the good it would do.

[Pesukarhu]

Googling for a bit shows that the z906 blows its internal fuses when a power surge occurs - explains why there is no sign of life. Some have had other power supply related failures.

The z5500 on the other hand blows its amplifiers, causing no or partial sound. Possible explanations i found are shorted speakers/their wires (overload) and main smoothing caps coming loose on the pcb (apparently causes really loud noises, which blow the amps). Did you change out the whole system when you bought a second one or just the amp?

You could also look inside the z5500's to see if there are any burn marks, especially around the amplifier chips. (they are mounted on a heatsink)

Sources:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/help-required-repairing-a-logitech-z906-speaker/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/repair-broken-logitech-z5500-sub/

[Twister]

As far as I can tell, none of these speaker systems are connected to the PC in any sort, so technically the PC couldn't be the faultry here. 

 

The steps I did was mentioned above, I bought a 2nd speaker system of Z-5500, I bought a Z-906, i've tried run them on a different PC, and I tried a long cable from my kitchen to power them.

 

If I just power the speaker system on about, without even letting them close to the PC, just the power cable that is on the subwoofer plugging it into the wall, and if I test the BGO cables (green, blue, orange) that is pic above, it still gives no static sound. I have really hard finding that my motherboard or PSU could have caused this when not even plugging the speaker systems to my PC and still no sign of life. I'm really lost. I think it's my house electricity, but is it a long shot? Could it be that when i plugged in the BGO cables to my soundcard that the sound card burned the circuit on the pod or subwoofer? (even if the power is coming from the wall) to power it. 

Is even any PSU from the PC used to power the sound system like it powers a GPU?

[Pesukarhu]

10 minutes ago, Twister said:

Could it be that when i plugged in the BGO cables to my soundcard that the sound card burned the circuit on the pod or subwoofer? (even if the power is coming from the wall) to power it. 

Is even any PSU from the PC used to power the sound system like it powers a GPU?

In theory the sound card could damage the pod, but it is very unlikely. The pc can only deliver enough power through the audio jacks to make headphones work, but that is about it... Did you check that the pc still outputs sound, you could check that with headphones.
 

It is also possible that the first set died due to old capacitors, second one broke in shipping (or the seller lied) and the third one had a manufacturing defect.

 

You could also have your electricity tested, although it probably isn't the problem here as nothing else is breaking. It might just be very bad luck.

[Twister]

8 minutes ago, Pesukarhu said:

In theory the sound card could damage the pod, but it is very unlikely. The pc can only deliver enough power through the audio jacks to make headphones work, but that is about it... Did you check that the pc still outputs sound, you could check that with headphones.
 

It is also possible that the first set died due to old capacitors, second one broke in shipping (or the seller lied) and the third one had a manufacturing defect.

 

You could also have your electricity tested, although it probably isn't the problem here as nothing else is breaking. It might just be very bad luck.

 

I have a pair of headphones (although USB) but they work. I also borrowed a old piece of trash headset (skullcandy) and plugged into my soundcard and it worked. I however, plugged the headset (skullcandy) into the control pod, and no sound outcome on the headset either. (both z-906 and z-5500 pod)

 

what I found funny though is, when I power the speakers on (any of the sets), there comes like a silent static / sparkling sound coming out from my speakers. Like a static spark. (last about 2-3 min) Then it goes silent and no static sound. (this is from the speakers, not the connector cables). If I turn power off, it also goes silent. This has happened on all 3 sets, and I used different cables for all 3 sets too. The cables in z-906 was brand new and I unboxed the plastic bags myself , and used all equipment that came in the box for them. 

[Pesukarhu]

4 minutes ago, Twister said:

what I found funny though is, when I power the speakers on (any of the sets), there comes like a silent static / sparkling sound coming out from my speakers. Like a static spark. (last about 2-3 min) Then it goes silent and no static sound. (this is from the speakers, not the connector cables). If I turn power off, it also goes silent.

I would like to say that the pod part is faulty then. It is probably the most fragile part as well, and could possible break due to weird voltages when connected to pc.

(the speaker sets are not grounded, and if they are getting (possibly intermittent) ground through the pc it could cause internal surges, which damage the sensitive part... this one is a very long shot guess. But there is going to be small leakage from the speakers to ground due to the nature of switch-mode power supplies)

[Twister]

But I bought a whole new Pod (Brand new - from the shop, unboxed) in the z-906 system that died only after 2 days. 

 

Your second lines seems to make most sense of anybody who said to me though, believe me. This is a hard nut to crack. Could you explain or eloborate a bit more about that? I don't fully understand. 

Speakers sets not grounded?

Intermittent? ground through the Pc? 

Internal surges? ....(sensitive part - is that the circuit that's inside the subwoofer or the circuit inside the control pod unit) 

small leakage? switch-mode power supplies?

 

Is that why it's causing that crackling-noise from the speakers like it's static then becomes completely null/silent/dead after 2-3 minutes? 

[EsaT]

3 minutes ago, Twister said:

small leakage? switch-mode power supplies?

Computer PSU has line filtering components which need safety ground. Without it they act as voltage divider making case "float" halfway between live and neutral. (as in 115VAC)

Those components just limit current to safe for human level.

And especially if you have electrically insulating floor you likely wouldn't even notice anything, unless touching something grounded at the same time as PC case.

 

But in case of some sensitive devices especially connecting them on the fly could have issues from that.

Especially if that other device is grounded.

Similarly if some other ungrounded device with some issues is connected to PC in grounded outlet, that could cause some current flow between them.

[Pesukarhu]

I can try to explain.
The speakers look like they are double-insulated, and thus aren't grounded. I assume they also have a two-prong plug like most audio equipment?

If the ground were intermittent, it would make the effect more damaging. Could be caused by a loose connection or a bad cord. "High"-current pulses are more damaging than a small continuous current. (there is capacitance in the system, so there will be a pulse when connecting)

The internal surges would be the leaking voltage getting discharged to ground suddenly through the audio cables, and thus damaging the pod unit, and possibly the sub as well.

Most modern power supplies are switch-mode, meaning they are electronic, smaller, and more efficient. But they do need a special capacitor across them to suppress noise which could cause issues with other electronics.

This capacitor can cause current flow from the mains side to the low-voltage side. The current only flows when the low voltage side is referenced (connected) to ground. 
So it is like the power supply generating "static" electricity. Harmless to humans, but can cause problems to electronics. 

A thought: If the speakers are plugged in before connecting them to the pc, they could get a ridiculously high voltage (very briefly) on the audio input line when connecting them. Wikipedia says the audio signal should be max 2 volts ac, and the leaking voltage could rise (float) up to the 100s of volts.

[Twister]

Ahh. I get you. Grounded electricity and ungrounded electricity. Well,

Here's the case.

 

I do live in a pretty old building. Right now in my living room where I have my PC, I have ungrounded electricity outputs. I have only one grounded electricity source in my house, and it's in the stair hall. However, this year I modified my kitchen and removed some power outsource that was ungrounded and used some grounded electricity from my stair hall to my kitchen to power my microwave and fridge. 

 

My computer is still running on ungrounded electricity, and noted, have for the last 5+ years without any hassle , with the sound or whatsoever. I am not sure if this recent change, by unplugging/removing some power source in the kitchen, and adding the grounded electricity source to the kitchen could have a impact on this. My PC and PSU and even sound system get's it's power electricity from a ungrounded output. Also worth mentioning, my neighbour is doing a house makeover and have been drilled alot in the walls and and hammering etc. not sure if it has to do with similar when this problem started or if it can affect it in any way. 

 

But I did try however to plug my speaker into the grounded output in the stair hall and it was still dead then. 

 

I remember however that this all started when I recently helped a friend to repair his laptop, it was an old laptop, HP compaq and I used the same power source to charge that battery on it as I do for my speaker system. Since then it has fizzled. Not sure if old adapters can cause some malicious failure in electricity output , but still I tried the stair hall and I am running like everything else in my room on this ungrounded power output without any problem. 

 

But is there any way to fix this? So I can have my sound back again like normal? 

[Twister]

7 minutes ago, Pesukarhu said:

I can try to explain.
The speakers look like they are double-insulated, and thus aren't grounded. I assume they also have a two-prong plug like most audio equipment?

If the ground were intermittent, it would make the effect more damaging. Could be caused by a loose connection or a bad cord. "High"-current pulses are more damaging than a small continuous current. (there is capacitance in the system, so there will be a pulse when connecting)

The internal surges would be the leaking voltage getting discharged to ground suddenly through the audio cables, and thus damaging the pod unit, and possibly the sub as well.

Most modern power supplies are switch-mode, meaning they are electronic, smaller, and more efficient. But they do need a special capacitor across them to suppress noise which could cause issues with other electronics.

This capacitor can cause current flow from the mains side to the low-voltage side. The current only flows when the low voltage side is referenced (connected) to ground. 
So it is like the power supply generating "static" electricity. Harmless to humans, but can cause problems to electronics. 

A thought: If the speakers are plugged in before connecting them to the pc, they could get a ridiculously high voltage (very briefly) on the audio input line when connecting them. Wikipedia says the audio signal should be max 2 volts ac, and the leaking voltage could rise (float) up to the 100s of volts.

Some of this what you write seem incredible accurate about my problem. Because it does sound like a static pulse or current / charge is crackling in the speakers right when I power them on. I know for example that my Z-5500 system subwoofer have a fuse in the back, and it's suppose to break BEFORE the system breaks, and if the fuse is dead, then the z-5500 control pod unit won't even power on. But however, it does power on, it does give a LED display on it, saying I run a audio output ch 5.1 or whatever it says, and the light led is glowing. Logitech says on the website if the system is dead, the control pod is dead, then it won't even show a LED or screen shows. It's just the static and crackling pulse noise that comes out from the speakers when I turn the power on for a brief moment then becomes complete silent, and no sound whatsoever even If I try playback some audio on youtube or itunes or whatever.  

 

But I am confused what to do here to fix this issue, because 

1) I had new cords from the z-906 box and tried them with it, can't be bad cords?

2) I tried powering it from my stair hall with grounded electricity, still don't work.

 

Is it the position of my subwoofer that's badly placed? is the damage already done and I have to buy a 4th speaker system? Is my cords under my desk that is a cluster mess that's the problem? cause it kinda looks like this under my desk with the cables:

[Twister]

Another question that's maybe totally random is: If you have alot of programs running on your PC, like alot of processes going on in your Task Manager, like the CPU % usage is alot, your Memory (RAM) % is alot, (on Task manager) will it draw more power outage on your PC from your PSU, meaning your electricity output can get more pushed , causing the electricity that your computer needs is too much to also driven a 1000 watt sound system? 

https://www.thinkofus.com.au/logitech-z906-5-1-channel-thx-certified-speaker-system-thxr-certified-1000-watt-peak-power-dolby-digital-sound-digital-and-analog-inputs-980-000470

well the z-5500's is 1005 watt it says. 

[EsaT]

Z5500 uses old style toroidal transformer to drop voltage from AC level but Z906 has SMPS.

https://soundnews.ro/2011/05/29/logitech-z906-review-english-version/

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/chip-amps/110310-hacking-logitech-z5500-55.html#post4167464

 

So Z5500's power supply will likely keep fully operating for as long as it's functional and gets power.

But full operation of Z906's SMPS is likely controlled by signal from control pod operating on some standby rail.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Twister said:

Also worth mentioning, my neighbour is doing a house makeover and have been drilled alot in the walls and and hammering etc.

Such equipment could certainly cause transients.

But those shouldn't be problem for power supplies themselves.

Though without safety ground for PC's powersupply there might be some higher voltage spikes on case.

And if audio cables are happily in one "same knot" with power cables that's not best either.

[Pesukarhu]

Well,
Not having ground on your appliances can cause issues, but i would imagine if they are all powered from the same outlet there wont be any issues, apart from the safety perspective.

Your neighbor is probably not guilty, unless he has drilled into your actual power cables.

 

Old chargers can cause interference but it should stop as soon as the charger is unplugged.

 

The crackling may be the dac in the pod trying to start and failing, assuming it is damaged.  I dont know how the internals work, just guessing. The leds are probably driven by a separate chip which has survived. The fuse would protect against shorted speaker wires and strong power surges, but not the sudden discharges.

The cable mess is "fine" from electricity standpoint, but it is probably a fire hazard
I would suggest that if possible (and if the circuit can take it) run an extension cord to a grounded outlet and use it to power your setup. It could possible remove some unknown factors in this puzzle. You will need at least a 1000w to be safe, so 5-ish amps for the setup.

The speaker system has its own power supply, and with a 2a fuse it could pull up to 460-500w continuous power from the wall. The pc is not involved in supplying power to the speakers, only the audio signal.

[Twister]

9 hours ago, Pesukarhu said:

Well,
Not having ground on your appliances can cause issues, but i would imagine if they are all powered from the same outlet there wont be any issues, apart from the safety perspective.

Your neighbor is probably not guilty, unless he has drilled into your actual power cables.

 

Old chargers can cause interference but it should stop as soon as the charger is unplugged.

 

The crackling may be the dac in the pod trying to start and failing, assuming it is damaged.  I dont know how the internals work, just guessing. The leds are probably driven by a separate chip which has survived. The fuse would protect against shorted speaker wires and strong power surges, but not the sudden discharges.

The cable mess is "fine" from electricity standpoint, but it is probably a fire hazard
I would suggest that if possible (and if the circuit can take it) run an extension cord to a grounded outlet and use it to power your setup. It could possible remove some unknown factors in this puzzle. You will need at least a 1000w to be safe, so 5-ish amps for the setup.

The speaker system has its own power supply, and with a 2a fuse it could pull up to 460-500w continuous power from the wall. The pc is not involved in supplying power to the speakers, only the audio signal.

That's what I did, I used the stair hall grounded outlet output with a extension cord to power the sound system. It was still dead, or well, first the static crackling noise came about then it was dead. 

[Pesukarhu]

2 hours ago, Twister said:

That's what I did, I used the stair hall grounded outlet output with a extension cord to power the sound system. It was still dead, or well, first the static crackling noise came about then it was dead. 

I meant that you use the grounded outlet to power your pc as well. It could help with the speakers breaking.

Also thought of one more thing to try, do the z5500s make any noise when you power them with the pod disconnected? If they make noise then the amplifiers are probably faulty, but if it stays quiet you could try getting a replacement pod.

[Twister]

Yes but I have 2 pair of z5500s, and I tried both. Even the z906, im not sure buying a 4th control pod unit would help, when all 3 pod units (2x 5500z, and 1x 906z) make the crackling noise. 

 

So power my sound station (my desktop PC with the sound plugged in at) at the stair hall grounded outlet instead, and use the speaker system on the non-grounded output, or also the output that have the same as PC? (from stair hall)