CPU recommendation

[StrafeJog]

Just now, DarkSmith2 said:

yes it has, you are good to go with it then

Great, thanks. I might get the Taichi if my build comes in at under 1,000CHF anyway.

[DarkSmith2]

7 minutes ago, StrafeJog said:

Great, thanks. I might get the Taichi if my build comes in at under 1,000CHF anyway.

AFAIK, those are atleast missing on the extreme4

 

VTT DDR
PCH PLL
BOOT CPU PLL
EVENTUAL CPP PLL
CPU COLD BUG KILLER
CLK VDD
DMI

 

Some can make a difference. But mostly those are LN2 settings. With the Taichi you get the whole package, the extreme4 is just a cut version. There might be more differences but as far as i could find real user experiences the Taichi might be the absolute best z370 board for its price. (besides the Asrock ITX, which also can OC ridiculously high and the Asus APEX which comes with only 2 DDR4 DIMM slots and most likely coilwhine).

[StrafeJog]

1 minute ago, DarkSmith2 said:

AFAIK, those are atleast missing on the extreme4

 

VTT DDR
PCH PLL
BOOT CPU PLL
EVENTUAL CPP PLL
CPU COLD BUG KILLER
CLK VDD
DMI

 

Some can make a difference. But mostly those are LN2 settings. With the Taichi you get the whole package, the extreme4 is just a cut version. There might be more differences but as far as i could find real user experiences the Taichi might be the absolute best z370 board for its price. (besides the Asrock ITX, which also can OC ridiculously high and the Asus APEX which comes with only 2 DDR4 DIMM slots and most likely coilwhine).

 

CPU Cold bug killer is a new one on me? What's that for, preventing failed boots when the PC has been off for a few hours?

[DarkSmith2]

Just now, StrafeJog said:

CPU Cold bug killer is a new one on me? What's that for, preventing failed boots when the PC has been off for a few hours?

Na its LN2 related, there is a cold bug when trying to boot when its to cold

[CPUguy101]

7 hours ago, Kenjo said:

I used to be an intel newb all the way untill one day i saw the light and went amd... not regretting it one bit, i game/stream/have 9 gazillion threads open etc and not a single stutter or hickups... took me a while to tinker with the ASUS (crap) bios settings but have finally got it rock solid at 3.925ghz 1.364vcore 22c idle 53c load with an Fractal S24 aio... was getting the h115i but shop decided to rip me off so i said fuck it and bought the fractal.. im super happy with changing from my 6700k that beat the 7 and 8th gen clock for clock in cinebench r15.... 

Performance vs price AMD all day long
Performance vs stupidity = intel all day long

 

Forgot to mention i stream music online aswell to my pc not to the internet and it never stutters or lags like it did on my intel platform

 

But you are comparing a 4 core with 8 threads to a 8 core with 16 threads most games now a days use 6 cores having a 8700K would be the better option more IPC more overclocking potential i mean they are hitting 5ghz. 

 

2700X will probably end up being OC to 4.2-4.3ghz at the most. I'm a Ryzen 7 owner and i bought it before cofeelake it's nice over my older I7 but i would prefer cofeelake as i game on a 144hz monitor and i also use emulation a lot and Ryzen is just good enough for that for me but at times i see my 1080 being bottlenecked.  

[Kenjo]

4 minutes ago, SMBGUY said:

But you are comparing a 4 core with 8 threads to a 8 core with 16 threads most games now a days use 6 cores having a 8700K would be the better option more IPC more overclocking potential i mean they are hitting 5ghz. 

 

2700X will probably end up being OC to 4.2-4.3ghz at the most. I'm a Ryzen 7 owner and i bought it before cofeelake it's nice over my older I7 but i would prefer cofeelake as i game on a 144hz monitor and i also use emulation a lot and Ryzen is just good enough for that for me but at times i see my 1080 being bottlenecked.  

i sold my z370 board and never want anything to do with intel again... even their ssd´s are shyte... got a Corsair gt that is 3 years older still at 100% life compared to the 240gb intel one that already lost 10% life in 1 year

 

[CPUguy101]

On 3/27/2018 at 11:49 AM, Kenjo said:

i sold my z370 board and never want anything to do with intel again... even their ssd´s are shyte... got a Corsair gt that is 3 years older still at 100% life compared to the 240gb intel one that already lost 10% life in 1 year

 

Good i guess i remember when i owned a 8350 and went to Intel with a 4370 I3 and i never felt i would go back to Amd again i mean a dual core processor with HT was beating the crap out of my older system in most games at the time. 

 

Guess what i then moved to a 4790K and then jumped back to good old Amd the Ryzen 7 CPU is nice but coffeelake is simply a no brainier IPC is a good 10-15% higher and it can overclock a good 15% over what Ryzen can do. 

 

Ryzen has 33% more cores BUT it also has around 30% less single threaded performance once you OC both to the max most software doesn't scale perfectly with more cores. 

 

This means the 8700K wins hands down on what part offers the best performance. 

 

I'm not loyal to any company at all i actually want Amd to do well but i will not recommend a worse product. 

[Kenjo]

1 minute ago, SMBGUY said:

Good i guess i remember when i owned a 8350 and went to Intel with a 4370 I3 and i never felt i would go back to Amd again i mean a dual core processor with HT was beating the crap out of my older system in most games at the time. 

 

Guess what i then moved to a 4790K and then jumped back to good old Amd the Ryzen 7 CPU is nice but coffeelake is simply a no brainier IPC is a good 10-15% higher and it can overclock a good 15% over what Ryzen can do. 

 

Ryzen has 33% more cores BUT it also has around 30% less single threaded performance once you OC both to the max most software doesn't scale perfectly with more cores. 

 

This means the 8700K wins hands down on what part offers the best performance. 

 

I'm not loyal to any company at all i actually want Amd to do well but i will not recommend a worse product. 

Remeber the fact that the 8th series have heat issues.. much like AMD once had... 

I could go on all day about the issues i had with my Skycrap with microstutters etc that all vanished when i moved to ryzen.... but i wont

On a personal experience level i will NEVER recommend Intel to my friends... having said that its still your choice what to do

Choose whichever you feel for and be happy with it  

[RyzenDoctor]

As a non-biased (cough*cough) forum member, I'd say wait till April 19th. then grab a X470 board, a 2700x, a nice AIO, and some fast DDR4. I'm done giving the Blue team my money (well technically Apple ?  - 2 Macbook Pros (15 inch 2016 with touchbar, 460Rx, 1 tb SSD, a 2014 13inch), a mac mini, + 3 ipads, and 4 iphones). 

 

Ryzen got me back to the PC side of the game, and I love my 1700x. Sure the single threaded performance cant compare to the blue team (for now), but bang-for-YOUR-buck the red team wins.

 

Support the underdog!

Edit: AMD if your're reading this I'm waiting for my 'shill' bucks

[DarkSmith2]

2 hours ago, Kenjo said:

show me what intel has to offer for the same price as the R7 1700.. (300-320euro) ... go on 

8700k. https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-6x-3-70GHz-So-1151-WOF_1199328.html

[RyzenDoctor]

I'm not sure whats going on above, but my Ryzen build has improved in stability with each Bios update. Now sure, I have sunk close to $2000 so far...

[WallacEngineering]

On 3/26/2018 at 10:39 AM, SMBGUY said:

As a proud Ryzen 7 owner i would still buy coffeelake and get a decent AIO and OC the hell out of it if anything it would be fun to play around with also i think temps being a limited factor to how far you can overclock it is actually even more fun haha...

@StrafeJog Ryzen 2XXX CPUs are supposed to be better at overclocking. This was one of AMD's main focuses on the improvements over Ryzen 1XXX.

 

I totally expect 4.4-4.5 GHz will be possible on Ryzen 2XXX.

 

I would suggest Ryzen if you want to game and stream. Ive owned my fair share of Intel systems and sure, they are great, but the 5-10% IPC and clock speed improvements from Ryzen 2XXX will get it within reach of Intel 8XXX frame rates. It will still be behind, but the general public's opinion of Ryzen 1XXX is already high and said that its "more than good enough".

 

The extra cores and threads of the R7 2700/2700X will serve you well in your quest to game and stream.

[CPUguy101]

14 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

@StrafeJog Ryzen 2XXX CPUs are supposed to be better at overclocking. This was one of AMD's main focuses on the improvements over Ryzen 1XXX.

 

I totally expect 4.4-4.5 GHz will be possible on Ryzen 2XXX.

 

I would suggest Ryzen if you want to game and stream. Ive owned my fair share of Intel systems and sure, they are great, but the 5-10% IPC and clock speed improvements from Ryzen 2XXX will get it within reach of Intel 8XXX frame rates. It will still be behind, but the general public's opinion of Ryzen 1XXX is already high and said that its "more than good enough".

 

The extra cores and threads of the R7 2700/2700X will serve you well in your quest to game and stream.

Well i agree with that man, though i'd argue that  8700K once OC to 5.0ghz would still be a good option for that but yeah you're not going to get a bad experience with a properly configured ryzen rig. Also a Ryzen 7 in my opinion was a no brainier before coffeelake no way was i going to get a 7700K for 350$ over a 1700. 

 

I encoded a whole season of a TV show to H.264 in like 1 hour and 15min with this chip i for sure love it for that haha i just get a little bummed out when i see my GPU below 95% and my FPS below 144 at the same time makes me think i'm not using my 1080 to it's fullest. 1440P 144hz gamer here. 

 

 

[CPUguy101]

1 hour ago, RyzenDoctor said:

I'm not sure whats going on above, but my Ryzen build has improved in stability with each Bios update. Now sure, I have sunk close to $2000 so far...

Yes mine as well actually since AGESA 1.0.0.4 i was able to hit 2933mhz and now i'm using my memory at its rated speeds and others are hitting 3466-3600mhz now. 

 

Kind of hoping the second gen Ryzen CPU's have better memory support 

[WallacEngineering]

44 minutes ago, SMBGUY said:

Yes mine as well actually since AGESA 1.0.0.4 i was able to hit 2933mhz and now i'm using my memory at its rated speeds and others are hitting 3466-3600mhz now. 

 

Kind of hoping the second gen Ryzen CPU's have better memory support 

They will, AMD already announced 3600MHz support on RAM for R7 2XXX and they said they eliminated 90% of the compatibility issues with certain RAM sticks. Really, Ryzen 2XXX is the Ryzen we should have gotten in the first place.

 

But hey, better late than never, right?

 

EDIT: Lets put it this way. I had an Intel i5 rig and now Ive got a Ryzen 5 1600X rig (see build log in signature). 100+ FPS on PUBG at 1440p? Check. Super fast system responsiveness? Check. Cinebench over 1000? Check even at stock speeds. FireStrike over 10,000? Try close to 13,000 with my GTX 980 OC.

 

I am NOT disappointed AT ALL in my Ryzen rig compared to Intel. Ryzen 2XXX will hit that 144Hz ROCK SOLID figure FOR SURE. I mean Ryzen 1XXX was already pushing close to 144Hz in MOST games. So once Ryzen 2XXX hits, it straight up DOESNT MATTER weather you like team RED or team BLUE.

 

So everybody above ^^^, shut the hell up with the stupid fan-boy-isms already, BOTH CHOICES ARE GOOD! What are you, 5 years old? Grow up already... Jeesh people...

[RyzenDoctor]

36 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

They will, AMD already announced 3600MHz support on RAM for R7 2XXX and they said they eliminated 90% of the compatibility issues with certain RAM sticks. Really, Ryzen 2XXX is the Ryzen we should have gotten in the first place.

 

But hey, better late than never, right?

 

EDIT: Lets put it this way. I had an Intel i5 rig and now Ive got a Ryzen 5 1600X rig (see build log in signature). 100+ FPS on PUBG at 1440p? Check. Super fast system responsiveness? Check. Cinebench over 1000? Check even at stock speeds. FireStrike over 10,000? Try close to 13,000 with my GTX 980 OC.

 

I am NOT disappointed AT ALL in my Ryzen rig compared to Intel. Ryzen 2XXX will hit that 144Hz ROCK SOLID figure FOR SURE. I mean Ryzen 1XXX was already pushing close to 144Hz in MOST games. So once Ryzen 2XXX hits, it straight up DOESNT MATTER weather you like team RED or team BLUE.

 

So everybody above ^^^, shut the hell up with the stupid fan-boy-isms already, BOTH CHOICES ARE GOOD! What are you, 5 years old? Grow up already... Jeesh people...

I dont know man, I enjoy being an AMD fanboy... the fact that things don't work out of the box puts a huuuge smile on my face, but then again I like to tinker. To me AMD has soul. My intel MBP is great but lacks the instability of a soulful system. When I think PC, I think BSOD, random shutdowns, windows stalling...

[WallacEngineering]

12 minutes ago, RyzenDoctor said:

I dont know man, I enjoy being an AMD fanboy... the fact that things don't work out of the box puts a huuuge smile on my face, but then again I like to tinker. To me AMD has soul. My intel MBP is great but lacks the instability of a soulful system. When I think PC, I think BSOD, random shutdowns, windows stalling...

I gotta agree that AMD is more fun from an enthusiasts point of view. That I can agree on.

 

The reason I went Ryzen though? Intel became that giant tyrant, the monopoly of silicon valley. I want the global market share to level out quite a bit before I buy another Intel system.

 

Monopolies are bad for EVERYONE. Nobody wants to pay $1000 for an i5 just because Intel says they can charge that much. Obviously i5's never got that high, but had it not been for Ryzen 1800X cicking the shit out of the i7 7700K, we all know Intel would have gotten to that point, eventually. Its like Wal-Mart and Comcast. And that is why I havent shopped at a Wal-Mart in over 5 years. Instead of bitching about how much things suck, just get up and actually DO something about it!

[Kenjo]

10 hours ago, DarkSmith2 said:

8700k. https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-6x-3-70GHz-So-1151-WOF_1199328.html

that 8700k no cooler and motherboards are 100 euro your point being ? 

My R7 1700 + wraith spire + motherboard b350m-a = 373 Euro .... Good luck finding the i7 8700k for that price

 

[DarkSmith2]

I can share some experience, Ive build both a Ryzen 7 1800x build for a good friend and a 8700k for myself. Both Systems are Overclocked, 

Ryzen to 4GHz and my Intel to 5GHz.

 

If i would have to compare both in real world usage gaming/streaming/browsing i would have to say that on the productivity side of things (streaming) the difference between them is so marginally low that its only measurable. Both do 720p60 on Medium OBS preset at best while playing things like PUBG and Multitasking at the same time. Both tap out at OBS slow encoding preset on 720p60 while its technically possible to do it with both you reach a point where multitasking is negativly affected by your workload. (Slowdowns/bad frametimes and ugly system responsivness) 

 

In the category of daily usage f.e. browsing/watching videos or all the other small things the Intel is way more responsive then the ryzen system, i dont wanna hurt any feelings here but its the truth in the small things you do every day the ryzen feels like an Old GEN CPU.

 

In gaming you all know whats up there.. no reason to really explain it further Intel wins.

 

So the question is why should anyone recommend current ryzen cpus over current intel cpus for gaming+streaming when both have the exact same performance in that task? Because of missing knowledge? More cores sounds great for streaming so lets recommend it even if in most other aspects the z370 plattform has the upper hand? Do you want people to buy the worse stuff that you can feel yourself better? I dont really get it.

 

On the Ryzen 2xxx topic i would say we all have to wait and see. First silicon lottery statistics will be very interessting.

[DarkSmith2]

17 minutes ago, Kenjo said:

My R7 1700 + wraith spire + motherboard b350m-a = 373 Euro .... Good luck finding the i7 8700k for that price

 

I wouldnt buy a bad motherboard, and i also wouldnt use that stock cooler for longterm. If i would buy a R7 1700 for myself i would go with crosshair6 hero, which there is no price difference in current z370 boards at all. Also i would use the same AiO i use since yesterday. 

 

Whats the point? that you can get a PC running with crap parts for cheap? well congratulations. then i would rather buy the $29dollar CPU and go ham with XEON

[Kenjo]

7 minutes ago, DarkSmith2 said:

 

 

well unfortunately its true but ok.

ok show me the 40% increase on gaming numbers with the same gpu and ram speeds... i dare you to show me what game has 40% more fps

 

[DarkSmith2]

6 minutes ago, Kenjo said:

ok show me the 40% increase on gaming numbers with the same gpu and ram speeds... i dare you to show me what game has 40% more fps

 

why should someone cripple his Intel chip using the same limited RAM speeds of Ryzen? That doesnt make sense either, i mean you can protect your buy how hard you want. But you cant defeat the facts everyone knows, On each second forum page are benchmarks videos you can look up for your own research if you want. Its not news, just your lack of interest. And thats ok as long as you dont want to convince people that need help to buy something that may not fit there needs.

[Kenjo]

1 minute ago, DarkSmith2 said:

why should someone cripple his Intel chip using the same limited RAM speeds of Ryzen? That doesnt make sense either, i mean you can protect your buy how hard you want. But you cant defeat the facts everyone knows, On each second forum page are benchmarks videos you can look up for your own research if you want. Its not news, just your lack of interest. And thats ok as long as you dont want to convince people that need help to buy something that may not fit there needs.

Cripple ? , 2666mhz vs 3200mhz is what 1% maybe 3% 

And each and every bench ive seen its talking 10-20% difference in performance and in some cases 1% ... dont see where you found your 40%

 

[DarkSmith2]

14 minutes ago, Kenjo said:

Cripple ? , 2666mhz vs 3200mhz is what 1% maybe 3% 

And each and every bench ive seen its talking 10-20% difference in performance and in some cases 1% ... dont see where you found your 40%

 

well, it works like this:

If a CPU spends 50% of it's time waiting on ram, and you make the ram 50% faster then the CPU will become 1/(.5+.5*.5)= 1.333 times faster.

If it spends 10% of it's time waiting, then the speed up is 1/(.9+.1*.5)= 1.05 times faster.

 

So basically every game that does benefit from a faster CPU will also benefit from faster RAM depending on how well it can use cache.

If you are f.e. extremely GPU bottlenecked the difference can be much smaller. But its always positive.

[Kenjo]

3 minutes ago, DarkSmith2 said:

well, it works like this:

If a CPU spends 50% of it's time waiting on ram, and you make the ram 50% faster then the CPU will become 1/(.5+.5*.5)= 1.333 times faster.

If it spends 10% of it's time waiting, then the speed up is 1/(.9+.1*.5)= 1.05 times faster.

 

So basically every game that does benefit from a faster CPU will also benefit from faster RAM depending on how well it can use cache.

If you are f.e. extremely GPU bottlenecked the difference can be much smaller.

So far ive seen the biggest difference on a few sites that report 157 fps for intel and 129 for ryzen... in games that arent that popular.... so the 40% claim must be fake news as usual.. 

Also if you run 2400mhz ram at higher speeds it lowers the CL state and the other faster timings to compensate for the higher speed, unless you tinker with all the timing settings and do multiple reboots to gain that 1-3 % increasement.... 

Its not just to bump your ram from 2400 to 3200 with 2 clicks in bios since the CL and other timings become looser the higher speed you run your ram unless they are directly from the manufacturer @ 3200mhz speed or higher .... 

These conversations tire me when people actually dont know what they are talking about... go read up some more and come back when you have actually comprehended the differences of Ram speeds and timings