X79 CPU upgradebility

[SamuraiXV1]

2 minutes ago, samoTh137 said:

I would rather go with intel because i know more about their CPU's amd i've heard that ryzen is more for productivity than gaming.

but I may be wrong. There's also ryzen 2 which is coming soon...

might want to re-read my comment i wasnt suggesting you go with AMD

[samoTh137]

6 minutes ago, SamuraiXV1 said:

might want to re-read my comment i wasnt suggesting you go with AMD

I misunderstood, thought you was suggesting to go with a ryzen 1600. Is that xeon better than a new i5 or i7 or is it just a temporary solution (i mean everything is temporary in some way but you get my point)

edit: http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Xeon-E5-1650-0-vs-Intel-Core-i7-3820/m7093vsm739

this suggest it's only 6% better and to me thats not worth the upgrade

[Coaxialgamer]

4 hours ago, samoTh137 said:

I currently have an MSI X79A-GD45 motherboard paired with an i7 3820 at base speed and i was wondering what i could upgrade it with to gain some performance.

Or is this a dumb question and should i just get an i5 8600k or i7 8700k?

You can actually find 3930k's for a very good price atm . Highest end you can get is a 4960x ( which still cost a pretty penny , as does the 4930k) . Those will be fast 6 cores , and i've seen them do 4.5ghz .

Otherwise , you can go for xeon . Honestly , i'd get a cheap 3930k or 4930k and OC , which will be close enough to the newer 6 cores but a lot less expensive because you can keep the board and ram.

 

Also there's ryzen , which is an option . It's worth waiting out for  zen+ at this point but just keep your expectations in line :

- ryzen + will be ~2.5% faster per clock due to IMC and cache improvements

-still slower than intel per thread , but it will reach higher clocks 

-power consumption will be higher , with the 2700x reaching ~140W ( +20w over the 1800x)

-newer XFR and boost tech lets the 2700x reach boost clocks for longer and on more cores than ryzen

-

[SamuraiXV1]

IPC (basically eficiency per mhz) isnt as good as a new intel cpu but as i said its about the same as a ryzen cpu. and with 6 core 12 threads you'd get plenty of life out of one. id say look around see what kinda price you'd be paying on 2000+ mhz ddr3 ram and the cpu then look at ryzen 1600 benchmarks versus the new I5/I7 series then you can weigh up if the cost difference is worth it since you already have the toughest part to get hold of (motherboard)

4 minutes ago, samoTh137 said:

I misunderstood, thought you was suggesting to go with a ryzen 1600. Is that xeon better than a new i5 or i7 or is it just a temporary solution (i mean everything is temporary in some way but you get my point)

 

[samoTh137]

4 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

You can actually find 3930k's for a very good price atm . Highest end you can get is a 4960x ( which still cost a pretty penny , as does the 4930k) . Those will be fast 6 cores , and i've seen them do 4.5ghz .

Otherwise , you can go for xeon . Honestly , i'd get a cheap 3930k or 4930k and OC , which will be close enough to the newer 6 cores but a lot less expensive because you can keep the board and ram.

 

Also there's ryzen , which is an option . It's worth waiting out for  zen+ at this point but just keep your expectations in line :

- ryzen + will be ~2.5% faster per clock due to IMC and cache improvements

-still slower than intel per thread , but it will reach higher clocks 

-power consumption will be higher , with the 2700x reaching ~140W ( +20w over the 1800x)

-newer XFR and boost tech lets the 2700x reach boost clocks for longer and on more cores than ryzen

-

3930k is just 10% bettr than a 3820 without OC (so with OC it will be better but i'd have to learn how that all works first) and the i7 8700k is like 60% better according to userbenchmark. But they are really cheap indeed: just €80 and i could get it for 60 if i'd try maybe

[SamuraiXV1]

I actually have a couple of gtx970's sat around if you'd like me to swap out my 1070 and test some games (if there's anything in particular you play) i could probably get back to you tomorrow.

[samoTh137]

1 minute ago, SamuraiXV1 said:

I actually have a couple of gtx970's sat around if you'd like me to swap out my 1070 and test some games (if there's anything in particular you play) i could probably get back to you tomorrow.

Would be really helpful if you could test at 1440p with 970 and 1070 cards. What CPU will you be using? If you could test assassins creed IV black flag, or origins, csgo, ARK survival evolved it would already help alot. If you want to see my steam library tell me your steam name and add me (samoTh137)

[SamuraiXV1]

no problem just sent you an invite.

and heres what im running

[samoTh137]

accepted your invite. Thanks for helping already  

 

25 minutes ago, samoTh137 said:

accepted your invite. Thanks for helping already  

cities skylines bench would also be great if you've got the time

[Coaxialgamer]

45 minutes ago, samoTh137 said:

3930k is just 10% bettr than a 3820 without OC (so with OC it will be better but i'd have to learn how that all works first) and the i7 8700k is like 60% better according to userbenchmark. But they are really cheap indeed: just €80 and i could get it for 60 if i'd try maybe

userbenchmark is kinda crap tbh. In terms of reliability , anandtech's comparator is better.

In terms of pure core/clocks scaling , the stock 3930k should be faster by ~30% due to the 2 extra cores . It loses in single thread, but don't forget it can be overclocked to roughly ~4.6ghz on air ,easily  making up that per core difference vs the 3820 and making up most if not all of the delta with the 8700k at stock.

you just need to have the cooler and power for it

 

35 minutes ago, SamuraiXV1 said:

no problem just sent you an invite.

and heres what im running

actually completely forgot about the unlocked xeons.

OP : if you can find an e5 1680v2 , then you'll have an unlocked 8 core on your hands.

[KarathKasun]

2 hours ago, Coaxialgamer said:

actually completely forgot about the unlocked xeons.

OP : if you can find an e5 1680v2 , then you'll have an unlocked 8 core on your hands.

E5-2680 2.7/3.5 (3.1ghz all core turbo) 8c/16t, ~$140.

 

AFAIK all of the E5-2xxx series are locked though.  V3 chips allow turbo pinning.

[Ground]

21 hours ago, KarathKasun said:

E5-2680 2.7/3.5 (3.1ghz all core turbo) 8c/16t, ~$140.

 

AFAIK all of the E5-2xxx series are locked though.  V3 chips allow turbo pinning.

Don’t get a locked xeon; and for most stuff 6 cores are plenty. A xeon 1650 v2 (has already been recommended by others) is basically an i7 4960X, which, if overclocked to about 4.5 GHz, should be about on par with a 4.0 GHz Ryzen 5 1600. Given the current RAM prices i would hold onto an old high end system for as long as possible. 

If you really don’t want to overclock or really want a full base upgrade upgrading to current generation CPUs (though waiting for Ryzen 2, which is about 3 weeks away now, is probably not a bad idea, especially if we see more price drops) is also worth considering. 

[samoTh137]

On 25-3-2018 at 9:31 PM, Coaxialgamer said:

userbenchmark is kinda crap tbh. In terms of reliability , anandtech's comparator is better.

In terms of pure core/clocks scaling , the stock 3930k should be faster by ~30% due to the 2 extra cores . It loses in single thread, but don't forget it can be overclocked to roughly ~4.6ghz on air ,easily  making up that per core difference vs the 3820 and making up most if not all of the delta with the 8700k at stock.

you just need to have the cooler and power for it

 

actually completely forgot about the unlocked xeons.

OP : if you can find an e5 1680v2 , then you'll have an unlocked 8 core on your hands.

I think i will get the i7 3930k because of its low price (i can get one not too far from where i live for just €80) whereas the xeon you’re suggesting may be better but just isn’t available in my region and on ebay it’s like €400 ($500). And if i’m right it’s more worth it getting a new chip at that kind of pricepoint.

 

I also don’t have an enormous budget so getting the i7 would be a very cost-effective option from what i’ve read about it here. 

 

If anyone who knows something about overclocking could teach me some of the basics it would also be very helpfull. I’ll have to upgrade my cooler too though (it’s just an intel one but not a standard in-box cooler).

[Coaxialgamer]

Just now, samoTh137 said:

I think i will get the i7 3930k because of its low price (i can get one not too far from where i live for just €80) whereas the xeon you’re suggesting may be better but just isn’t available in my region and on ebay it’s like €400 ($500). And if i’m right it’s more worth it getting a new chip at that kind of pricepoint.

 

I also don’t have an enormous budget so getting the i7 would be a very cost-effective option from what i’ve read about it here. 

 

If anyone who knows something about iverclocking could teach me some of the basics it would also be very helpfull. I’ll have to upgrade my cooler too though (it’s just an intel one but not a standard in-box cooler).

Linus actually did an OC guide for X79 way back when the chip was new

Basically you turn up the cpu ratio until you get instability , then increase voltage . Rinse and repeat until you reach a voltage or temperature wall . If your cooler can handle it , you'll get to a point ( typically around 4.5-4.6ghz, but may be lower or higher )  where increasing voltage even by fairly significant amounts will not allow you to increase your clocks . at that point you want to find the lowest voltage possible for that frequency and run a stress test for 12-24 hours for validation

[samoTh137]

1 minute ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Linus actually did an OC guide for X79 way back when the chip was new

Basically you turn up the cpu ratio until you get instability , then increase voltage . Rinse and repeat until you reach a voltage or temperature wall . If your cooler can handle it , you'll get to a point ( typically around 4.5-4.6ghz, but may be lower or higher )  where increasing voltage even by fairly significant amounts will not allow you to increase your clocks . at that point you want to find the lowest voltage possible for that frequency and run a stress test for 12-24 hours for validation

Thanks you i’ll watch the video now and i’ll get back if i’ve got another question. Actually i already got one  What CPU cooler do you recommend? I was thinking about the dark rock pro 3 from be quiet.

[Coaxialgamer]

1 minute ago, samoTh137 said:

Thanks you i’ll watch the video now and i’ll get back if i’ve got another question. Actually i already got one  What CPU cooler do you recommend? I was thinking about the dark rock pro 3 from be quiet.

that's a very decent cooler . but honestly it would depend on your budget . Around that price , the best air cooler would actually be the nh d15 from noctua ( if you case can fit it ) . You also have the option of getting entry level 240mm AIO water coolers for that price .

[samoTh137]

15 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

that's a very decent cooler . but honestly it would depend on your budget . Around that price , the best air cooler would actually be the nh d15 from noctua ( if you case can fit it ) . You also have the option of getting entry level 240mm AIO water coolers for that price .

I would like to get the nzxt s340 elite case soon because it looks nice and is pretty good as far as i know. So does the noctua nh d15 fit in there or would it be better to go for a cheap AIO, i just don’t know which ones are reliable besides the corsair ones and nzxt kraken but those are expansive

[Coaxialgamer]

2 minutes ago, samoTh137 said:

I would like to get the nzxt s340 elite case soon because it looks nice and is pretty good as far as i know. So does the noctua nh d15 fit in there or would it be better to go for a cheap AIO, i just don’t know which ones are reliable besides the corsair ones and nzxt kraken but those are expansive

the nh d15 is actually slightly too big for that case . but the dark rock pro 3 is also a great option and is typically only a couple degrees behind even with power hungry chips.

As far as AIO's go , cooler master makes decent entry level options for that price as well , like the masterliquid 240 . corsair's options are solid and compatibility is a bit better but they are a bit pricier

[samoTh137]

18 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

the nh d15 is actually slightly too big for that case . but the dark rock pro 3 is also a great option and is typically only a couple degrees behind even with power hungry chips.

As far as AIO's go , cooler master makes decent entry level options for that price as well , like the masterliquid 240 . corsair's options are solid and compatibility is a bit better but they are a bit pricier

Will deicde between those two then they are both around 70-80 euros and the AIO looks cleaner but i’ll see

[KarathKasun]

2 hours ago, Ground said:

Don’t get a locked xeon; and for most stuff 6 cores are plenty. A xeon 1650 v2 (has already been recommended by others) is basically an i7 4960X, which, if overclocked to about 4.5 GHz, should be about on par with a 4.0 GHz Ryzen 5 1600. Given the current RAM prices i would hold onto an old high end system for as long as possible. 

If you really don’t want to overclock or really want a full base upgrade upgrading to current generation CPUs (though waiting for Ryzen 2, which is about 3 weeks away now, is probably not a bad idea, especially if we see more price drops) is also worth considering. 

From my experience with SB/IB and Ryzen 5 they are roughly on par clock for clock in single thread.  6c/12t at 4.6ghz would curbstomp a 1600X at 4ghz when it comes to games.

 

Ryzen's SMT is better though, and in highly parallel workloads it will be about even with the 1650/1660 at 4.4ghz.  If you can push it to 4.6, the 1650/1660 will win pretty much every time.

[samoTh137]

On 25-3-2018 at 9:17 PM, SamuraiXV1 said:

no problem just sent you an invite.

and heres what im running

Do you have any results yet or can you tell me when you have them?

[SamuraiXV1]

Took a bit longer than expected. 1440p with all settings at their highest preset with everything else left alone except vsync

 

[samoTh137]

16 hours ago, SamuraiXV1 said:

Took a bit longer than expected. 1440p with all settings at their highest preset with everything else left alone except vsync

 

thank you. Do you know of your CPU is a bottleneck when running some of the tests on the 1070 because the numbers on skylines are almost the same and the difference on ark isn't that much either

edit: ark is just not really high but difference is there.

[SamuraiXV1]

skylines and cs:go are 100% cpu limited as for ark id say its a fairly big difference though still not ideal. thats why i decided to add in tomb raider as that actually has a built in benchmark and more reflects the gpu difference in a modern title.

 

that said all of the games i tested were perfectly playable on either gpu

[samoTh137]

2 minutes ago, SamuraiXV1 said:

skylines and cs:go are 100% cpu limited as for ark id say its a fairly big difference though still not ideal. thats why i decided to add in tomb raider as that actually has a built in benchmark and more reflects the gpu difference in a modern title.

 

that said all of the games i tested were perfectly playable on either gpu

would it make a big difference getting an i5 8600k instead of an i7 3930k? Because i can get one or maybe even 2 gtx 1070's  if i want to (used) but i don't want to get a cpu that can't handle it because it would basically be useless to get the video card(s) and therefor a wast of money