Windows and Linux

[Kidbest100]

Hey guys, I just got into a discussion with my dad. He has been a minor-techy since the early 90's, and hasn't really kept up with anything since then, still relying on old things like clock speed of my CPU to base its overall performance. I have, however been keeping up with current tech, and learning and expanding my knowledge, hence joining this forum.

I have a problem where I currently have a 32-bit version of Windows Vista, and yet a 64 bit processor, and was explaining to my dad I wish I could get my hands on a 64 bit version, if not windows 7 64 bit.

His answer was "Get Linux." He rambled on and on about how microsoft and windows were total bunk, and how he has never trusted them with anything such as backing up his files. I explained to him that in my experience with Linux (Which I used for over a year in a very basic usage environment) it was slower, less responsive, and just overall a hassle to use when I wanted to play a game or watch a movie. I often found myself having to take side roads and such to just take out my daily entertainment of using the computer, and didn't really enjoy it.

Basically from there I told him that the benchmarks I have seen, show that Linux doesn't utilize your hardware as well as Windows, and the overall user experience (Snappiness?) of the basic desktop and stuff felt slightly slower and less responsive than that of a Windows operating system on the exact same machine.

All in all, he huffed and puffed how I only play games and thats all I use my computer for, when I actually do F@H, and lots of web browsing, movie watching, and file browsing, things that are nice when you have a "Snappy" system. I want my system to not have a bottleneck when it comes to the operating system, and in my experience, it was bottlenecked with Linux.

What have some of your experiences been? Do you guys think that Linux is less responsive, and less hardware-utilizing than that on Windows? Should I switch to LIEnux to get my 64 bit processing power, or just wait until I can get my hands on a proper version of Micro$oft's Windows 7 64 bit?

[GoodBytes]

Linux is particular. If you have 100% of your hardware Linux ready, with manufactures putting effort and resources in their Linux drivers, Linux is a really good OS. Fast, responsive, same level or better than Windows 7/8. If you don't.... then not so much... your system can consume more power as power saving features don't work, slowness, non responsive, etc... But, that is true for any OS. If you put Windows and missing drivers.. you'll get a crappy experience. The difference is that Windows has ~90% market share, so anything supports it, fully, properly, and everything is continuously polished and improved by manufactures ('cause if they don't, well no one will buy their products). Another problem is that support for hardware is even less in 64-bit under Linux. Everyone I talk to who knows about Linux, all told me, use the 32-bit version for greater support. And it is true, sadly.

Based on what you said on what your father is said: It's the first time I here such false claims. Windows is a super solid OS, especially since Vista (assuming you are using the 64-bit version which is more polished than the 32-bit, and have the hardware to run it at the time). Windows also feature a built-in backup system, and ability to go back in time on a file, folder or system. Allowing your to recover deleted or overwritten files, or virus infection in your system, or something bad happen. Something that you can't do in Linux.

In my opinion, Linux is a great OS. The problem is that it's by and for servers and really power users. The simplest things are complicated to do (although, Ubuntu is essentially changing Linux entirely to change it.. making Ubuntu not really liked among the Linux purist, but liked by new comers). Also, this makes that when you open a program options, in some cases you are blasted with options, where more than half of them are not really useful, they are just there to look fancy, but they are useless, they should not be there, or other options are there because the developer can't take a stand on his deisgn layout, and just give you a million and one option.. cool... but you are cluttered with uselessness, making finding basic or most used options difficult. It feels like the developer(s) found an empty stop in the option panel and tried to find something to fill it up. Moreover you have basic things that are just not cared for. For example, the font rendering engine of Linux xWindows environments, is garbage. It's so outdated. But no one cares to work on it. It's boring, and because Linux is not targeted at end users, and at marketing to make things looks nice, clean and professional, these things are just left out.. so everything looks crappy... at least to me.

Another thing, is that I don't care anyone says, but the quality of many Linux software, are really poor.

Quality support is very difficult to find on the web, and has a strong very snobbish community in many forums I encountered for assistance. They don't like newbs to Linux, they want to keep it for "Elites" only. Another problem with Linux is that everything is complicated and clutttered. There is no GUI guide, no consistency, the experience is completely different form one system to another, making it very difficult to impossible to help someone using GUI (avoiding Terminal is what I mean). Also most programs don't even have a help documentation. Developement of software is also at snail paste, and quality programs like Chome or Firefox, are also left Linux behind in favor of pushing Windows releases.

Also, you don't have Office. While is really important, because LibreOffice and OpenOffice is unable to read and write properly on doc and docX.

Linux is great and even awesome for many many things, and it can run on virtually anything. But it doesn't make it awesome for everything automatically.

Linux, thanks to Ubuntu, has made HUGE steps forwards in being more user friendly. Sadly, Linux is so behind, it will take years and years before it can catch up to Windows, let alone require a mentality switch. So in my book, for desktop and laptops computers, Windows is the way to go. Maybe in 10-15 years Linux will be worth actually considering.. but so far, no, unless you are usages are really specific, server purposes, or very basic (web surf, type text, and that's about it).

I would get Windows 8 Pro 64-bit. It used to be on special at 40$ form October 2012 to Jan 31st 2013.. shame you missed it. I don't know if Microsoft will bring up again the special with Windows 8.1, if not... you'll have to wait for Windows 9.

If you are a student, contact your college or university to see if they are registered to Microsoft MSDNAA. If so, you have Windows 7 and 8 waiting for you, ready to be downloaded for free, among all other Microsoft software, including Visual Studio Ultimate and Windows Server, and the powerful note taking software: OneNote, all free. What you don't have is Office (I guess Microsoft has to make money on you, some how :))

If your school is not registered to MSDNAA, fear not... We have Plan B:

Microsoft does student special on their products:

-> US: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msus/en_US/cat/ThemeID.29553000/categoryID.59238100

-> Canada: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msca/en_CA/list/ThemeID.27659600/categoryID.57607500

Why 64-bit?

-> You get to run 64-bit programs which takes advantage of it, and allows it to run intensive tasks faster.

-> You get to use 4GB of RAM or more.

-> You get to enjoy a better support OS, and drivers for your hardware and peripheral.

-> You get to use a bunch of new security features built-in the CPU like buffer overflow protection.

-> You can use a partition size more than 2TB

To get you started with Windows 8, check out this post: while this post refereed to a person using XP going to Win8.. a lot applies to Vista to 8, as you skipped 7:

http://linustechtips.com/main/forum/software/operating-systems-and-software-aa/153263-upgrading-os-windows-7-or-8-for-gaming?p=153366#post153366

I hope this answers your question. If you have any other question or have any claims from your father that needs to be cleared up, just ask.

[Kidbest100]

Linux is particular. If you have 100% of your hardware Linux ready, with manufactures putting effort and resources in their Linux drivers, Linux is a really good OS. Fast, responsive, same level or better than Windows 7/8. If you don't.... then not so much... your system can consume more power as power saving features don't work, slowness, non responsive, etc... But, that is true for any OS. If you put Windows and missing drivers.. you'll get a crappy experience. The difference is that Windows has ~90% market share, so anything supports it, fully, properly, and everything is continuously polished and improved by manufactures ('cause if they don't, well no one will buy their products). Another problem is that support for hardware is even less in 64-bit under Linux. Everyone I talk to who knows about Linux, all told me, use the 32-bit version for greater support. And it is true, sadly.

Based on what you said on what your father is said: It's the first time I here such false claims. Windows is a super solid OS, especially since Vista (assuming you are using the 64-bit version which is more polished than the 32-bit, and have the hardware to run it at the time). Windows also feature a built-in backup system, and ability to go back in time on a file, folder or system. Allowing your to recover deleted or overwritten files, or virus infection in your system, or something bad happen. Something that you can't do in Linux.

In my opinion, Linux is a great OS. The problem is that it's by and for servers and really power users. The simplest things are complicated to do (although, Ubuntu is essentially changing Linux entirely to change it.. making Ubuntu not really liked among the Linux purist, but liked by new comers). Also, this makes that when you open a program options, in some cases you are blasted with options, where more than half of them are not really useful, they are just there to look fancy, but they are useless, they should not be there, or other options are there because the developer can't take a stand on his deisgn layout, and just give you a million and one option.. cool... but you are cluttered with uselessness, making finding basic or most used options difficult. It feels like the developer(s) found an empty stop in the option panel and tried to find something to fill it up. Moreover you have basic things that are just not cared for. For example, the font rendering engine of Linux xWindows environments, is garbage. It's so outdated. But no one cares to work on it. It's boring, and because Linux is not targeted at end users, and at marketing to make things looks nice, clean and professional, these things are just left out.. so everything looks crappy... at least to me.

Another thing, is that I don't care anyone says, but the quality of many Linux software, are really poor.

Quality support is very difficult to find on the web, and has a strong very snobbish community in many forums I encountered for assistance. They don't like newbs to Linux, they want to keep it for "Elites" only. Another problem with Linux is that everything is complicated and clutttered. There is no GUI guide, no consistency, the experience is completely different form one system to another, making it very difficult to impossible to help someone using GUI (avoiding Terminal is what I mean). Also most programs don't even have a help documentation. Developement of software is also at snail paste, and quality programs like Chome or Firefox, are also left Linux behind in favor of pushing Windows releases.

Also, you don't have Office. While is really important, because LibreOffice and OpenOffice is unable to read and write properly on doc and docX.

Linux is great and even awesome for many many things, and it can run on virtually anything. But it doesn't make it awesome for everything automatically.

Linux, thanks to Ubuntu, has made HUGE steps forwards in being more user friendly. Sadly, Linux is so behind, it will take years and years before it can catch up to Windows, let alone require a mentality switch. So in my book, for desktop and laptops computers, Windows is the way to go. Maybe in 10-15 years Linux will be worth actually considering.. but so far, no, unless you are usages are really specific, server purposes, or very basic (web surf, type text, and that's about it).

I would get Windows 8 Pro 64-bit. It used to be on special at 40$ form October 2012 to Jan 31st 2013.. shame you missed it. I don't know if Microsoft will bring up again the special with Windows 8.1, if not... you'll have to wait for Windows 9.

If you are a student, contact your college or university to see if they are registered to Microsoft MSDNAA. If so, you have Windows 7 and 8 waiting for you, ready to be downloaded for free, among all other Microsoft software, including Visual Studio Ultimate and Windows Server, and the powerful note taking software: OneNote, all free. What you don't have is Office (I guess Microsoft has to make money on you, some how :))

If your school is not registered to MSDNAA, fear not... We have Plan B:

Microsoft does student special on their products:

-> US: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msus/en_US/cat/ThemeID.29553000/categoryID.59238100

-> Canada: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msca/en_CA/list/ThemeID.27659600/categoryID.57607500

Why 64-bit?

-> You get to run 64-bit programs which takes advantage of it, and allows it to run intensive tasks faster.

-> You get to use 4GB of RAM or more.

-> You get to enjoy a better support OS, and drivers for your hardware and peripheral.

-> You get to use a bunch of new security features built-in the CPU like buffer overflow protection.

-> You can use a partition size more than 2TB

To get you started with Windows 8, check out this post: while this post refereed to a person using XP going to Win8.. a lot applies to Vista to 8, as you skipped 7:

http://linustechtips.com/main/forum/software/operating-systems-and-software-aa/153263-upgrading-os-windows-7-or-8-for-gaming?p=153366#post153366

I hope this answers your question. If you have any other question or have any claims from your father that needs to be cleared up, just ask.

Holy crap dude, Thanks so much! I'm glad you got all of that out in a way I could understand. I agree with what you say about Linux. It's awesome sometimes, but its just lagging behind to the point where I would rather choose windows because of its compatibility with everything, and reliability.

Sometimes I feel like I'm having to choose between the shiniest of two turds, but I suppose once you shine one enough, it starts to look nice enough to use.

PS: If I could give you something like a freaking gold star that would give you a good rep, I would. Thanks for taking the time for such an amazing reply :)

[GoodBytes]

Glad I could help! :)

The 2x OS are not turd... they just have their specialty. The way I like to look at it is like this:

Linux ------ Windows ---- Mac

Linux is super flexible, you can do anything you want, runs on anything (running well is another story.. but like it runs on those freaking primitive computers like Raspberry Pi computer for hobiest, where Windows can't even dream of running), its ideal for server. But due to all this power and flexibility it's difficult to use, and have virtually no thought process to the end user. Everything is built/made/added because it needs to be, not to improve user experience.

Mac is polar opposite. You can't do anything, you are lock down, but everything is super simplistic.

Windows is in between these 2 worlds. Some version of Windows is more on Linux side, other version are more on the Mac side. Microsoft continues to balance power user and every day users at each Windows release. Some people don't like Microsoft, simply because Windows is a paying OS, and in their eyes, they see it not worth the price its being sold. I used to understand a bit their view.. but since I took a class on Operating Systems, and saw how freaking complicated an OS is, and that the user interface that we use to interact with our system is like about.. let's say 10%... this made me appreciate OS's in general a lot more, and I fully understand the price of Windows. Microsoft has over 97 000 employees. Granted a nice part of it is not related to development of software, and more HR, Business, marketing, IT, testers, QA, lawyers, representative, PR, etc... And that Microsoft has a lot of products availible, it's still many thousands of dollars. Ignoring employee benefits, each developer is paid on average 100 000k per year. Well you can imagine how much an OS cost. And you can kinda see how crazy time consuming it is to develop one as complete as Windows... Vista was an OS done almost down to scratch, cost Microsoft 6 years time, and billions of dollars. And people still think that it was released too early.. and that when Vista reach SP1 is was polished enough for an enjoyable experience weaker systems. And it is true, that, because they made it virtually all from scratch, and in one shot, you have a long list of bugs that will show up. It's invertible. But, on a modern and powerful computer, Vista was providing a better experience than XP would on the same system, as XP didn't support new technologies. Hence why I say: "If you have the system for Vista at the time".

Anyway, I am getting off topic here.

But that's how I see it. They all have their strength and weaknesses, and it depends on you. For most people, Windows offers a good balance, and like Windows.. hence why ~90% of computers runs on Windows.

[MasterGeekMX]

Linx is actually more faster and snappier than windows, but in the right conditions it can be slower. If you run it inside a virtual machine it will suffer from the overhead of virtualizing the system. if you run it as a LiveCD from the install media it will suffer from the loading speed of the install media. If you don't have a proper driver for the GPU it wil run slower becasue it it in a software renderin fallback mode.

 

It also depeds on what distro you run. The real difference between distros is whact programs it comes with, and what set of options are in the config. And some combination of those don't play well in old machines. Take for example ubuntu prior to 2018. They used a desktop environment called Unity that was particularly heavy on old machines, so if your first linux experience was to run Ubuntu 16.04 in a dell optiplex, it will indeed be slower.

 

In my case I have a pretty decent setup, and I daliy drive Linux in all of my machines from at least to yeas. They have Linx installed on HDDs and the old windows install I have is on an SSD, and let me tell you: the boot times are quite on par.