The solution

[Jrasero]

Today I was randomly searching YouTube and I came across this guy named Timmy Joe PC Tech and he had a video named "NVidia Can Fix The GPU Shortage Pricing Issues but Don't Seem To Care" and I thought it was going to be another click bait video that just rehashed what we already know offering no real solution, but no it offers a real solution.  The guy also mainly calls out Jay which I got a kick out of because I have been ultra critical about that video he posted about crypto currency killing PC gaming and how he came off, but his solution is Nvidia developing a worthy mining oriented card based on Volta that would MSRP $2K-$3K but offer 2X-3X the performance based on mining.     

 

 

 

 

What do you all think of Joe's solution?

[79wjd]

Any mining only card has no resale value, which is bad if you want to mine and makes the gaming cards a better alternative unless the mining variants are much more profitable per dollar. Not to mention that miners would buy gamer cards when the supply of miner cards run out anyway.

[Levisallanon]

it would require miners to be smart.
Also a lot of miners resell their graphics cards at a later stage right? And with a new type of card that won't work as easily. So they would probably go for something which they can resell easier.

[Dissitesuxba11s]

If this does happen and prices for gamer cards stabilize, miners would still jump on the opportunity to mine on gamer cards. They just have the best resale value and they would yield a faster ROI time.

[Jrasero]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Any mining only card has no resale value, which is bad if you want to mine and makes the gaming cards a better alternative unless the mining variants are much more profitable per dollar. Not to mention that miners would buy gamer cards when the supply of miner cards run out anyway.

One, would you openly buy a mining card?

 

secondly Joe's solution proposes they use Volta which would offer the advantage of 2X-3X the performance.  It's pretty simple miners don't need RGB or fancy back plates they just need the best ROI.  

 

We are in a shortage because two groups are fighting over one type of product targeted at gamers, I think opening a different segment would alleviate this  

[knightslugger]

Prices aren't stable because non-primary resellers on Amazon/Newegg/etc aren't bound by manufacturers' pricing. When you see a $1200 1070, it's not from a primary reseller.

[Dissitesuxba11s]

14 minutes ago, Jrasero said:

Nvidia developing a worthy mining oriented card based on Volta that would MSRP $2K-$3K but offer 2X-3X the performance based on mining. 

Technically the Titan V falls under this description.

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, Jrasero said:

One, would you openly buy a mining card?

 

secondly Joe's solution proposes they use Volta which would offer the advantage of 2X-3X the performance.  It's pretty simple miners don't need RGB or fancy back plates they just need the best ROI.  

 

We are in a shortage because two groups are fighting over one type of product targeted at gamers, I think opening a different segment would alleviate this  

Except mining cards have a much lower resale value whereas a gaming card can be sold for a lot more. That means it also takes longer for a mining card to pay off and there's a higher risk of mining dies off as you can't just resell the card to recoup some losses. 

 

On top of that, the issue is that the supply isn't large enough. Adding a new card won't magically change the number of GPU cores Nvidia/AMD can supply. 

[TheRandomness]

5 minutes ago, Jrasero said:

One, would you openly buy a mining card?

 

secondly Joe's solution proposes they use Volta which would offer the advantage of 2X-3X the performance.  It's pretty simple miners don't need RGB or fancy back plates they just need the best ROI.  

 

We are in a shortage because two groups are fighting over one type of product targeted at gamers, I think opening a different segment would alleviate this  

Volta doesn’t magically have more performance than pascal. It’s actually about the same in terms of IPC. 

[Jrasero]

Just now, knightslugger said:

Prices aren't stable because non-primary resellers on Amazon/Newegg/etc aren't bound by manufacturers' pricing. When you see a $1200 1070, it's not from a primary reseller.

That's understandable, but it's all about supply and demand.  If a new product floods the market that offer "X" ROI better than gaming cards the demand for gaming cards is alleviated thus third parties will not charge X3

 

Listen it's pretty simple, I have sold a few cards recently and even day to day news on mining and on speculation on incoming stock has effected what I can sell cards for.  

[Jrasero]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Except mining cards have a much lower resale value whereas a gaming card can be sold for a lot more. That means it also takes longer for a mining card to pay off and there's a higher risk of mining dies off as you can't just resell the card to recoup some losses. 

 

On top of that, the issue is that the supply isn't large enough. Adding a new card won't magically change the number of GPU cores Nvidia/AMD can supply. 

Mining cards also suck that's the problem

 

 

[Jrasero]

2 minutes ago, TheRandomness said:

Volta doesn’t magically have more performance than pascal. It’s actually about the same in terms of IPC. 

Joe isn't proposing taking a consumer card to do this

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, Jrasero said:

Mining cards also suck that's the problem

 

 

Nvidia/AMD can't produce enough GPU dies -- otherwise they could just increase the supply of gaming cards. So why would adding a new model change that?

 

And no, the problem is that it's a solution that doesn't make sense. (Besides, mining specific hardware exists -- they're called ASICs).

 

And again, not being able to resell the card has a huge impact on the amount of profit I can make.

[knightslugger]

5 minutes ago, Jrasero said:

That's understandable, but it's all about supply and demand.  If a new product floods the market that offer "X" ROI better than gaming cards the demand for gaming cards is alleviated thus third parties will not charge X3

 

Listen it's pretty simple, I have sold a few cards recently and even day to day news on mining and on speculation on incoming stock has effected what I can sell cards for.  

disagree. If i cannot move a GPU after it has run its course, or perhaps build it into a new computer for someone (or myself), i would not want it. Mining cards also pose a different problem. They have no active cooler. They are designed to be used in extremely high airflow server chassis which cost a boat-load and have limited density. why the hell would i want to add additional cost to my mining operation, on a card i cannot use anywhere else?

[Jrasero]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Nvidia/AMD can't produce enough GPU dies -- otherwise they could just increase the supply of gaming cards. So why would adding a new model change that?

Well I believe this and don't.  I think Nvidia has so much planned out at every step.  You can't deny that the 1080 Ti just magically appeared over night.  It be almost be irresponsible is your the CEO of NVIDIA to not develop a high end mining specific card.  Maybe there truly is a supply shortage or maybe it's Nvidia working the market.  I don't want to come off as a conspiracist, but it wouldn't surprise me 

[Parideboy]

Like others said, it will solve this if those mining cards were, let's say, half the price. A good thing to consider is that reselling value will be worthless even for gaming cards when the market will be overwhelmed with them.

 

2 minutes ago, Jrasero said:

That's understandable, but it's all about supply and demand.  If a new product floods the market that offer "X" ROI better than gaming cards the demand for gaming cards is alleviated thus third parties will not charge X3

 

Listen it's pretty simple, I have sold a few cards recently and even day to day news on mining and on speculation on incoming stock has effected what I can sell cards for.  

Not at all lol

Then mining cards will cost too much and gaming cards will get scavaged again

 

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

Nvidia/AMD can't produce enough GPU dies -- otherwise they could just increase the supply of gaming cards. So why would adding a new GPU change that?

They could, but they can't produce more than the vendors request. There are logistic times. If amazon asks for 100 580, I ship them 100 580. If they run out in a day, it's not my problem. I was commissioned 100 in x date, and that's what I've done. All the gpus (the die, non the cards) that I produce is already been sold. That's how it works.

 

3 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

disagree. If i cannot move a GPU after it has run its course, or perhaps build it into a new computer for someone (or myself), i would not want it. Mining cards also pose a different problem. They have no active cooler. They are designed to be used in extremely high airflow server chassis which cost a boat-load and have limited desity. why the hell would i want to add additional cost to my mining operation, on a card i cannot use anywhere else?

Exactly

[Jrasero]

Just now, Parideboy said:

Like others said, it will solve this if those mining cards were, let's say, half the price. A good thing to consider is that reselling value will be worthless even for gaming cards when the market will be overwhelmed with them.

 

Not at all lol

Then mining cards will cost too much and gaming cards will get scavaged again

 

They could, but they can't produce more than the vendors request. There are logistic times. If amazon asks for 100 580, I ship them 100 580. If they run out in a day, it's not my problem. I was commissioned 100 in x date, and that's what I've done. All the gpus (the die, non the cards) that I produce is already been sold. That's how it works.

 

Exactly

I think the lack of resale for mining cards is being narrow minded, that like saying their is no market for server parts.  I have use for server parts but there is a market and they sell on the daily.  Just because it doesn't apply to you doesn't mean their isn't a demand

[knightslugger]

2 minutes ago, Jrasero said:

I think the lack of resale for mining cards is being narrow minded, that like saying their is no market for server parts.  I have use for server parts but there is a market and they sell on the daily.  Just because it doesn't apply to you doesn't mean their isn't a demand

Companies who buy server components do not look to the used market for parts.

[Jrasero]

The problem with current mining cards is that they offer no real performance increases over gaming cards

 

ASUS Mining P106 is just a GTX 1060, if Nvidia developed something on Volta that offered a real performance increase I think this would be a different story

[Parideboy]

Just now, Jrasero said:

I think the lack of resale for mining cards is being narrow minded, that like saying their is no market for server parts.  I have use for server parts but there is a market and they sell on the daily.  Just because it doesn't apply to you doesn't mean their isn't a demand

If a miner is selling a mining card, is because it's not capable of mining anymore. It wouldn't be more expensive than a used gaming card. No reason to sell it. Plain and simple.

That's what's gonna happen to 1060s 3Gb and that's the main reason why miners moved to 1070s

 

2 minutes ago, Jrasero said:

http://bitcoinist.com/nvidia-to-focus-more-on-cryptocurrency-mining-market/

Nvidia even banned gtx cards from server farms unless they're used for mining so, meh

[TheRandomness]

50 minutes ago, Jrasero said:

Joe isn't proposing taking a consumer card to do this

Once again, Volta has about the same performance as Pascal, enterprise card or not. The reason the Titan V has that kind of performance is because of the (insanely expensive) 5120 shaders (there's actually 5376 on the die, but they need to disable 256 to ensure decent yields on a chip that's once again, fucking massive). Also, they can't just magically come up with a new architecture in a year, they need much more time to do that.

[domenicocortez]

The solution?

Boycott online reseller (amazon/newegg)

Boycott used gpu (from miners)

[epic_ziver_D]

2 hours ago, Jrasero said:

Today I was randomly searching YouTube and I came across this guy named Timmy Joe PC Tech and he had a video named "NVidia Can Fix The GPU Shortage Pricing Issues but Don't Seem To Care" and I thought it was going to be another click bait video that just rehashed what we already know offering no real solution, but no it offers a real solution.  The guy also mainly calls out Jay which I got a kick out of because I have been ultra critical about that video he posted about crypto currency killing PC gaming and how he came off, but his solution is Nvidia developing a worthy mining oriented card based on Volta that would MSRP $2K-$3K but offer 2X-3X the performance based on mining.     

 

 

 

 

What do you all think of Joe's solution?

I'm reposting the comment I posted on Joe's video:

 

First thing, Jay doesn't have much power to affect Nvidia, anything you or Jay thought of its very likely Nvidia have thought of it too. First thing first while Nvidia has been focusing on AI and stuff much more they have stated that gamers are their primary concern, and they are selling their GPUs on their site with a 2 cards per customer limit (at normal pricing), also they have been encouraging retailers to do the same. Nvidia hasn't been earning more money per card, retailers have been increasing the prices, even board partners haven't begun to increase supply because it would take 3 months+ for the supply to arrive, and they don't do it because they do not think that the problem will continue long enough and do not want to be stuck with a bunch of Pascal cards when Consumer Volta drops. If Nvidia starts developing a special mining GPU it will take 2-3+ years till it will be released, I doubt the company wants to take such a big risk in developing a card for a market that's so unstable (Developing a new card would probably cost millions of dollars). Also, Nvidia won't increase manufacturing themselves because board partners won't buy them... While the situation right now is shitty there isn't much anyone can do but start limiting amount of an item per customer without anyone taking big risks. If anything Nvidia is the 1 company trying to help gamers, AMD has been supporting the miners with optimised drivers, retailers haven't been limiting GPUs per customer and some board partners have been sending GPUs to retailers which don't limit GPUs per customer. Nvidia has made public announcements asking retailers to stop selling to miners. Quote: "For NVIDIA, gamers come first. All activities related to our GeForce product line are targeted at our main audience. To ensure that GeForce gamers continue to have good GeForce graphics card availability in the current situation, we recommend that our trading partners make the appropriate arrangements to meet gamers' needs as usual"

[knightslugger]

19 minutes ago, domenicocortez said:

The solution?

Boycott online reseller (amazon/newegg)

Boycott used gpu (from miners)

Here's the problem with your boycott statement. AMD/Nvidia are working on the R&D for a new generation of GPUs. Retailers have to order the units they think they can sell. say that's 1000. what happens if unexpectedly there isn't a demand for that order of 1000 because GPU crypto folds up or a new generation of GPUs hits the market with better performance than the 1000 they just ordered and there is now a MASSIVE used market? Now they're stuck with hundreds and hundreds of partener cards that they can't move because everyone is finding way better deals on the used market than they could sell wholesale (make little to nothing in profit)!

 

The end of GPU crypto mining means a massive partner card / manufacturer fallout. You will see GPUs from primary resellers selling at $1000 because the only way for EVGA/MSI/et al to stay afloat with a massive used market is to drive prices up with new cards.

 

You want to see partner card manufacturers dry up and disappear? KILL GPU CRYPTO. that'll do it for at least 5 years. when today's GPUs no longer can game at future performance requirements.

[Jeff C]

10 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

Here's the problem with your boycott statement. AMD/Nvidia are working on the R&D for a new generation of GPUs. Retailers have to order the units they think they can sell. say that's 1000. what happens if unexpectedly there isn't a demand for that order of 1000 because GPU crypto folds up or a new generation of GPUs hits the market with better performance than the 1000 they just ordered and there is now a MASSIVE used market? Now they're stuck with hundreds and hundreds of partener cards that they can't move because everyone is finding way better deals on the used market than they could sell wholesale (make little to nothing in profit)!

 

The end of GPU crypto mining means a massive partner card / manufacturer fallout. You will see GPUs from primary resellers selling at $1000 because the only way for EVGA/MSI/et al to stay afloat with a massive used market is to drive prices up with new cards.

 

You want to see partner card manufacturers dry up and disappear? KILL GPU CRYPTO. that'll do it for at least 5 years.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it seems like you are stating that GPU mining is the only thing keeping board partners afloat.  If that is in fact what you are saying, i would have to respectfully disagree and even state that they were doing fine before the mining craze.

As for reselling gaming cards once the card runs its course, no intelligent pc builder/gamer will by a used card that was used for mining, there is no guarantee that the card will last more than a few weeks to a few months.