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[GamerDude]

42 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

Cool. Not all headphones need to be run balanced. I would if you could because no harm, but not needed. But IMO HD6XXs greatly improve by being ran balanced. I think it's 100% worth the investment, which is why I went with the Amp I did.

I can't say, normally, to me, running balanced mode basically results in louder volume at same setting vs SE mode. Some say it's cleaner with greater audio detail, I can't say as I've never bothered to sit down and A/B balanced vs SE. Like the HD6XX for example, I could test the stock SE cable vs the balanced one I'd gotten, but I've heard many say that the stock HD6XX cable is crap to begin with, and that using a HD650 cable on the HD6XX would yield better result. So, IF this were true, comparing balanced vs SE (stock) cable would be a waste of time unless I get a HD6500 cable, or a decent quality 3rd part SE cable..

Anyway, I rummaged through my storeroom and found the cable, not a cheap set of cable though.....

[Max_Settings]

28 minutes ago, GamerDude said:

I can't say, normally, to me, running balanced mode basically results in louder volume at same setting vs SE mode. Some say it's cleaner with greater audio detail, I can't say as I've never bothered to sit down and A/B balanced vs SE. Like the HD6XX for example, I could test the stock SE cable vs the balanced one I'd gotten, but I've heard many say that the stock HD6XX cable is crap to begin with, and that using a HD650 cable on the HD6XX would yield better result. So, IF this were true, comparing balanced vs SE (stock) cable would be a waste of time.

Anyway, I rummaged through my storeroom and found the cable, not a cheap set of cable though.....

Man that thing looks crazy. 

Back to balanced for a sec. Yes I find balanced does play at louder volume than SE. I haven’t A/B tested per say, but just listening I truly believe the 6XXs sound better balanced. I’m going to figure out what it is for my next shootout. The best way to A/B a set would probably just be taking on and off a 4pin female to 1/4in male adapter and swapping as fast as you can and leveling the volume every time. Best way would be to have 2 of everything and just quickly take each headphone off your head and swap that way. I’m not sure if the stock 6XX cable is cheaper than the HD650 cable. I bought an HD650 cable to make my own balanced cable when I first got my set. I can tell you at lest from the exterior it’s the same cable. But I never tried the 650 cable SE before I cut it up to make a balanced cable so I can’t say if there is anything different on the inside. All I can say is Sennheiser uses some stupidly thin gauge wire the the 650 cable. And it’s just a few enamel covered stands of copper and it’s a b*tch to try and solder when you have to scrape off the enamel on wires that are about as thin as hairs.

[Dackzy]

Nice write up. I fully agree that it is hard to beat HD650 for what they currently go for, they are pretty much the go to 200$ headphone for anyone getting into audio. I liked the set of HD650 I had way back, but personally the sound signature wasn't my cup of tea at least not when it came to being my daily driver, where I personally prefer a more "neutral" and analytical sound.

I have been thinking about getting a set again as my secondary headphone.

 

Man I need to remember to do reviews when I get loaner units or buy new gear, but I always forget to do it. Hopefully I will remember it now.

I might do a little write up on some genelec 8040, Ultimate ears reference monitor, RME adi 2 or meier audio Corda stagedac (depends on which  DAC I go for)and meier audio Corda jazz ff soon, I just need to set everything up and decide what DAC I will switch to.

[Max_Settings]

I just put some folded toilet paper over the drivers on the T50s to cut the highs and it makes a huge difference and fixes the S hiss problem. Man this might the be thing to do with these. It makes them even harder to drive because it muffles the sound. Will have to see when we do the mayflower mod though.

[Daniel Z.]

7 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

I just put some folded toilet paper over the drivers on the T50s to cut the highs and it makes a huge difference and fixes the S hiss problem. Man this might the be thing to do with these. It makes them even harder to drive because it muffles the sound. Will have to see when we do the mayflower mod though.

Should I try that on my K7xx? Just wanna see what it sounds like. It is really good though, songs like Do Re Me by Blackbear play right into its strengths, the detailed highs and amazing sub bass

[Max_Settings]

3 minutes ago, Daniel Z. said:

Should I try that on my K7xx? Just wanna see what it sounds like. It is really good though, songs like Do Re Me by Blackbear play right into its strengths, the detailed highs and amazing sub bass

No harm if you want. I'm not sure yet if I like this yet, I folder it over 4x and I think that might be too much. I'm probably going to redo it with 2x folded over. I wouldn't do it unless the highs bother you, that's why I did it on these. But if you want to just play around go for it, easily reversible of course. Just don't let it get into the drivers, it's safer on the T50s because they are planar and don't have a dynamic driver that the paper can get into.

[Max_Settings]

Might order a set of the foam inserts from the HD650s too to try those, they are like $2.50 a pair on eBay.

[GamerDude]

Man, you guys are such treble wusses!!! 

[Max_Settings]

Just now, GamerDude said:

Man, you guys are such treble wusses!!! 

I was just trying to fix that horrible S hiss problem I had.

[GamerDude]

LOL, I was just having a laugh, making a funny.....  I don't hear any sibilance on my modded T50RP, it was irritating and harsh before I'd swapped out the stock pads with the Alpha Pads, followed by the MayFlower kit mod. Damn, I just wish I'd bookmarked the mod I'd used, I can't recall which mod I'd followed and there are literally dozens of mods over at the HF T50RP thread.

[Daniel Z.]

59 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

No harm if you want. I'm not sure yet if I like this yet, I folder it over 4x and I think that might be too much. I'm probably going to redo it with 2x folded over. I wouldn't do it unless the highs bother you, that's why I did it on these. But if you want to just play around go for it, easily reversible of course. Just don't let it get into the drivers, it's safer on the T50s because they are planar and don't have a dynamic driver that the paper can get into.

oh. I probably won't do it, don't wanna risk my headphones. I don't have any other pair after I gave my Clouds to my dad

[GamerDude]

15 minutes ago, Daniel Z. said:

oh. I probably won't do it, don't wanna risk my headphones. I don't have any other pair after I gave my Clouds to my dad

From what Max had said, it sounds like it isn't a risky or irreversible mod, so you can try it and see if it helps with the sparkle (you wusses!  ). When I first opened up my T50RP, I was so afraid I'd accidentally dent the planar array, but I exercised a certain amount of care, it wasn't an issue. But I do admit that I had a few cans already at that time, so I wasn't worried about having no backup cans. A few months ago, I'd gotten a pair of resonators from the French guy who'd invented the mod (HD800 SDR mod) and installed the resonators w/o a hitch.....pretty easy as I'd simply followed the guide posted online. Heck, if some with two left hands like me can do simple mods, just about anybody can do it.

[Max_Settings]

Just got the comfort strap from Mr. Speakers for the T50s. It does help, but still not as good as the HD6XXs. But more on this in the $275 showdown.

[Head_banger75]

A very detailed comparison of the Sennheiser HD6xx and the Fostex T50RP MK3s.  Really enjoyed your impressions. I'm a big fan of the MK3s but in order to get the most out of them they need some mods and as you discuss a powerful amp. If you have the time and patience the MK3s can be modified to drastically improve their sound quality.  I opted to buy modified MK3s from ZMF headphones.  I bought a pair of the ZMF Classics which are often overlooked due to the higher end custom wooden cups that they produce (Ori and Blackwoods).  For $299 you can get a modified singled ended MK3 or if you have a balanced headphone amp get the rejacked balanced Classics for $359.00.  They are well worth it IMHO.  What you get besides the dampened driver updates is upgraded pads, leather pilot padded headband and a re-cabled balanced or single ended headphone jack.  They also include a single ended or balanced XLR cable depending on the option you choose.  One of the biggest issues on the stock MK3 headphone is the jack can get loose and develop a faulty connection over time. 

 

Having them recabled for a balanced connection really makes them sing!! I use them with my Schiit Jotunheim Amp/Dac so I have an endless amount of power ontap.  These are not a good portable headphone.  If you want use them as a portable solution you need to get something like an iFi Black label micro iDSD amp/dac.  

 

The ZMF mods really make a difference as they provide comfort, something severely lacking in the stock MK3s.  They also have improved the sound signature from the originals by dampening them with foam and whatever else they do under the pads.

 

I really enjoy the ZMF Classics with Rock'n Roll.  AC/DC, Metallica, the Stones, etc.  

 

The ZMF Classics up the sound quality and give the big boy Sennheisers HD6xx and HD600s a run for their money.  While I feel they don't have quiet as much detail as the Sennheiser HD6xx's they make up in imaging and low end punch.  Drums on these things are phenomenal.  I find that ZMF also have dampened the treble really well so you don't get any harshness on the "highs" like you do with some other brands.

 

Balanced and powered with the right amp these things bring the music alive.  They are a great option for those who don't have the aptitude or time to do their own custom modding.

[Max_Settings]

1 minute ago, Head_banger75 said:

A very detailed comparison of the Sennheiser HD6xx and the Fostex T50RP MK3s.  Really enjoyed your impressions. I'm a big fan of the MK3s but in order to get the most out of them they need some mods and as you discuss a powerful amp. If you have the time and patience the MK3s can be modified to drastically improve their sound quality.  I opted to buy modified MK3s from ZMF headphones.  I bought a pair of the ZMF Classics which are often overlooked due to the higher end custom wooden cups that they produce (Ori and Blackwoods).  For $299 you can get a modified singled ended MK3 or if you have a balanced headphone amp get the rejacked balanced Classics for $359.00.  They are well worth it IMHO.  What you get besides the dampened driver updates is upgraded pads, leather pilot padded headband and a re-cabled balanced or single ended headphone jack.  They also include a single ended or balanced XLR cable depending on the option you choose.  One of the biggest issues on the stock MK3 headphone is the jack can get loose and develop a faulty connection over time. 

 

Having them recabled for a balanced connection really makes them sing!! I use them with my Schiit Jotunheim Amp/Dac so I have an endless amount of power ontap.  These are not a good portable headphone.  If you want use them as a portable solution you need to get something like an iFi Black label micro iDSD amp/dac.  

 

The ZMF mods really make a difference as they provide comfort, something severely lacking in the stock MK3s.  They also have improved the sound signature from the originals by dampening them with foam and whatever else they do under the pads.

 

I really enjoy the ZMF Classics with Rock'n Roll.  AC/DC, Metallica, the Stones, etc.  

 

The ZMF Classics up the sound quality and give the big boy Sennheisers HD6xx and HD600s a run for their money.  While I feel they don't have quiet as much detail as the Sennheiser HD6xx's they make up in imaging and low end punch.  Drums on these things are phenomenal.  I find that ZMF also have dampened the treble really well so you don't get any harshness on the "highs" like you do with some other brands.

 

Balanced and powered with the right amp these things bring the music alive.  They are a great option for those who don't have the aptitude or time to do their own custom modding.

Very cool man! I personally just did the Mayflower V1 mod to my pair as well as added a leather comfort strap from Mr. Speakers. I kid you not I was looking at making these balanced, I need to do that in the near future because these love power. Also probably going to have DBrand make me some carbon fiber skins for them.

[GamerDude]

Very nice!  I'd never thought of having my T50RP modded like that (though, IIRC, I did see one or two guys who'd done it over at HF), I wasn't aware ZMF had such nicely modded T50RP's. I did toy with the idea of getting my K812 modded to plugs/connectors on both sides but it was very costly and risky undertaking (locally, no one could do the mod, so I'd have to send mine to the US to have it modded, shipping both ways and cost of mod itself became prohibitively high). Anyway, I have the Gustard H10 which is supposed to be able to do Balanced with just an SE 1/4' plug (connecting my Gustard X12 to it via 4 pin balanced XLR cables) but I'm not sure how works. Regardless, with the H10 in balanced mode, I definitely get louder volume vs unbalanced mode at same volume setting. That's why I'm keeping the H10 + X12 as well since it's the only DAC stack that I have that can do this.

[Max_Settings]

38 minutes ago, GamerDude said:

Very nice!  I'd never thought of having my T50RP modded like that (though, IIRC, I did see one or two guys who'd done it over at HF), I wasn't aware ZMF had such nicely modded T50RP's. I did toy with the idea of getting my K812 modded to plugs/connectors on both sides but it was very costly and risky undertaking (locally, no one could do the mod, so I'd have to send mine to the US to have it modded, shipping both ways and cost of mod itself became prohibitively high). Anyway, I have the Gustard H10 which is supposed to be able to do Balanced with just an SE 1/4' plug (connecting my Gustard X12 to it via 4 pin balanced XLR cables) but I'm not sure how works. Regardless, with the H10 in balanced mode, I definitely get louder volume vs unbalanced mode at same volume setting. That's why I'm keeping the H10 + X12 as well since it's the only DAC stack that I have that can do this.

I contacted ZMF to see if they would convert my pair to balanced without doing all the other stuff. I'm hoping they will and not charge a fortune for it. 

[Max_Settings]

2 hours ago, Head_banger75 said:

A very detailed comparison of the Sennheiser HD6xx and the Fostex T50RP MK3s.  Really enjoyed your impressions. I'm a big fan of the MK3s but in order to get the most out of them they need some mods and as you discuss a powerful amp. If you have the time and patience the MK3s can be modified to drastically improve their sound quality.  I opted to buy modified MK3s from ZMF headphones.  I bought a pair of the ZMF Classics which are often overlooked due to the higher end custom wooden cups that they produce (Ori and Blackwoods).  For $299 you can get a modified singled ended MK3 or if you have a balanced headphone amp get the rejacked balanced Classics for $359.00.  They are well worth it IMHO.  What you get besides the dampened driver updates is upgraded pads, leather pilot padded headband and a re-cabled balanced or single ended headphone jack.  They also include a single ended or balanced XLR cable depending on the option you choose.  One of the biggest issues on the stock MK3 headphone is the jack can get loose and develop a faulty connection over time. 

 

Having them recabled for a balanced connection really makes them sing!! I use them with my Schiit Jotunheim Amp/Dac so I have an endless amount of power ontap.  These are not a good portable headphone.  If you want use them as a portable solution you need to get something like an iFi Black label micro iDSD amp/dac.  

 

The ZMF mods really make a difference as they provide comfort, something severely lacking in the stock MK3s.  They also have improved the sound signature from the originals by dampening them with foam and whatever else they do under the pads.

 

I really enjoy the ZMF Classics with Rock'n Roll.  AC/DC, Metallica, the Stones, etc.  

 

The ZMF Classics up the sound quality and give the big boy Sennheisers HD6xx and HD600s a run for their money.  While I feel they don't have quiet as much detail as the Sennheiser HD6xx's they make up in imaging and low end punch.  Drums on these things are phenomenal.  I find that ZMF also have dampened the treble really well so you don't get any harshness on the "highs" like you do with some other brands.

 

Balanced and powered with the right amp these things bring the music alive.  They are a great option for those who don't have the aptitude or time to do their own custom modding.

 

 

Also man, what connector is that they used? It looks like either a Mr. Speakers connector or an Audeze one.

[Max_Settings]

10 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

Also man, what connector is that they used? It looks like either a Mr. Speakers connector or an Audeze one.

NVM it's an Audeze connector.

[Head_banger75]

Yes, that's correct it's the Audeze connector.  It's a Mini 4-pin XLR female to the headphones (Left & Right) to a 4 single pin XLR male to the headphone amp.  Here's a couple of pics for you.  

[Max_Settings]

1 minute ago, Head_banger75 said:

Yes, that's correct it's the Audeze connector.  It's a Mini 4-pin XLR female to the headphones (Left & Right) to a 4 single pin XLR male to the headphone amp.  Here's a couple of pics for you.  

Cool I contacted ZMF to see if I could just get my pair converted to balanced without doing any other modding because I’ve already modded mine.

[Head_banger75]

That's great! Hopefully they are reasonable with the conversion from single ended to balanced.   It was only a $50 upgrade to add the Mini-XLR balanced re-jack to the Classics, but that was buying the headphones directly from them.  I wonder if they would give you a similar price + return shipping to send your headphones in just to have them re-cabled?

 

These headphones really crave power.  I think you need at least 1.5 watts per channel to drive them properly due to their 92db efficiency.

[Max_Settings]

1 minute ago, Head_banger75 said:

That's great! Hopefully they are reasonable with the conversion from single ended to balanced.   It was only a $50 upgrade to add the Mini-XLR balanced re-jack to the Classics, but that was buying the headphones directly from them.  I wonder if they would give you a similar price + return shipping to send your headphones in just to have them re-cabled?

 

These headphones really crave power.  I think you need at least 1.5 watts per channel to drive them properly due to their 92db efficiency.

I think my X7S will do that. It does 1.7W at 32ohm and 1W at 300ohm so at 50 it should be close to 1.5W.

[Head_banger75]

Yes, your Aune X7S will be able to power them without any issues.  I have heard good things about the X7S but never heard it.  It's 1.7 Watts at 32ohms so you'll have more than enough power to drive the Mk3s!!

[GamerDude]

Heh, just looked at the specs on my Gustard H10, it has a solid 2000mW (2W)  @32 Ohms.....