Youtube Disaster

[accelleon]

I'm sure as you are all aware, there are many channels currently fighting several copyright claims, up to the hundreds for some. Several Youtubers have had various update videos and rants on the current minefield Youtube has become for some. Even larger channels such as Angry Joe are fighting such claims, some of them even being bogus. How did this come about however? Well first a little bit of history:

 

Several Youtubers have their own opinions on to how this came about ranging from companies pressuring Youtube to allow them to have more control over copyright to blaming networks. Watching many of these different videos, there's quite a bit of information to be drawn. Some people have mistaken this as an apparently "new" content identification system, this system has existed for a long time now. However there was an option to skip this content id system. Normally when you upload a video for monetization, it undergoes a content review, courtesy of their system, which can take up to days even weeks, this is bad for people wishing to make a living. Youtube however allowed these entities, MCNs or multichannel networks, to give a bargain.

 

MCNs are just large networks on Youtube. However being a part of one offered one huge benefit: the ability to skip the monetization review. In return for being granted this ability by Youtube, copyright infringing content uploaded by their sub channels, is also the responsibility of the network, or was supposed to be. These networks began recruiting as many channels as they could. These MCNs had them sign binding contracts, for however long, asking for a cut of your revenue, 40% being the most I've heard, and in turn offered services such as promotion which they rarely actually granted, however you could skip the monetization review and immediately monetize any video you upload. Networks such as RPM and Polaris, did exactly that, recruiting hundreds of channels, taking a cut of their revenue for services they rarely offered. This is something roughly behind the scenes in Youtube that not many who just watch are aware of, but how does this affect the current situation?

 

Recently Youtube forced MCNs to make a choice: to manage or affiliate those channels they bound by contract. Being manged means there's no change to you, you continue to evade the content id system, however becoming an affiliate carries a hefty change, you become subject to the content id system, you can no longer skip that monetization review, yet are still bound by contract for however long it lasts. Now the punishments for MCNs if a sub channel receives a copyright strike are very severe; half a dozen people can destroy an entire network and anyone managed by it. Now here's where you get the current situation. All of those channels that could previously escape the content id system, have become affiliates, are having their videos reviewed by the system, essentially thrown under the bus because these MCNs can't afford to look after the hundreds, even thousands of channels they have recruited or the consequences of those channels infringing copyright laws. Those channels who have become managed, such as TotalBiscuit, will never have to worry about these countless content id claims, the content id system ignores them, the only claims they have to worry about are claims filed by actual people, not the content id bot.

 

Even worse so: People have even seen bogus claims by random smaller channels and even corporations that they've never even heard of; this may have become a feeding frenzy.

 

There are game publishers that are openly supporting Youtubers such as Blizzard, Capcom and Ubisoft:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/blizzard-ubisoft-and-capcom-offer-support-after-huge-spike-in-youtube-copyright-claims/1100-6416659/

Mojang has officially changed their terms of use of Minecraft  to explicitly give permission to monetize videos including content from Minecraft.

Nintendo has allegedly been enforcing the copyright claims, there is little to no information to prove this given the current state of Youtube, however Nintendo has made a previous assault on Youtubers.

 

Each Youtuber has their own opinion as to why Youtube has done this. Some people believe that media industries have pressured or even forced Youtube into allowing them greater control of copyright, but that doesn't quite make sense, the copyright system hasn't changed at all, people have just been subjected to it while previously evading it. Its alot harder to combat a copyright claim as a single affiliate than as a managed network, you lack power. Others believe that this was Youtube's response to MCNs recruiting people into unfair contracts, after all it's in the MCN guidelines that they should be fair and honest, which they have not. The single fact that the idea of MCNs was rarely spoken of has led to alot of misinformation about this issue. What is clear, however, is that all of this came about after the National Music Publishers Association and multichannel network Fullscreen entered a legal battle.

 

Here's a few of the videos I've watched: (Ohmwrecker's in my opinion is more informative, but who doesn't love a good Angry Joe rant)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQfHdasuWtI (Angry Joe's rant)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB9pCFzZfLg (Ohmwrecker's first video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2gswdiH3VE (Ohmwrecker's second video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt1ubSVMwaw (Q&A from Rev3Gaming with various Youtubers)

 

Larger IGN article:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/13/is-nintendo-claiming-copyright-on-youtube-videos-again

 

Now i tried to make this contain as little of my opinion as possible, just as much fact as I could pull out from these videos, so I ask, what is your opinion?

Also if you have anything to add, please do so.

[Guest]

YouTube wants the be profitable from a business stand point what they are doing is genius

[qwertywarrior]

the only way now is moving to viemo or something else

[EzikialX11]

I would like to see what youtube does about the biggest lets player on earth

 

PewDipie or however you spell his name.

 

man that guy.. Banking the money big time. with an estimated earnings of 240k a month

yeah he gives back to charity but honestly im happy that this is making people like him find real jobs.

 

and not just sit behind a computer all day playing other peoples games. Swearing talking about rape. and saying Nailed it.

 

And am I Jelly? Am I Mad bro?  yes... yes I am

 

I feel doctors should be on 240k a month people that save our lives and help us. they should be getting the big bucks

not these clowns

 

anyway that's my view. and I am allowed to have it =)

lucky we don't live in north korea!

[accelleon]

I would like to see what youtube does about the biggest lets player on earth

 

PewDipie or however you spell his name.

Considering the size of his channel and the amount of views he generates, he is definitely managed. The content id system will in no way affect him, hell networks would fight each other to the death for him, anyone would love to have that 40% or even just 10% of all that money he makes on his videos. And even if someone did file a genuine copyright claim, I'm sure his network would defend him to the last breath.

 

I believe that instead of ending Youtube, this will lead to the downfall of larger networks. This inspires smaller networks to appear in order to skip the monetization review, these small networks would probably be Youtubers that are good friends and often are together.

[KakaoDj]

The only way to stop this bullshit is to take on the streets and riot, or stop using youtube (which is never going to happen)
Kinda pathetic how people think youtube is the biggest problem right now, while innocent kids in Syria are gassed to death...

[thedigitalmilk]

The only way I can put this is, lets just hope Linus Media Group doesn't get cluster fucked by things like this by displaying the short segments of games on the benchmark videos.

[accelleon]

The only way I can put this is, lets just hope Linus Media Group doesn't get cluster fucked by things like this by displaying the short segments of games on the benchmark videos.

 

The Youtube content id system can't easily identify the game itself. Most of the claims on lets plays and reviews are actually the trailers, cutscenes and the sounds and music. As long as they cut out any music and don't show cutscenes and trailers they'll be fine.

[thedigitalmilk]

The Youtube content id system can't easily identify the game itself. Most of the claims on lets plays and reviews are actually the trailers, cutscenes and the sounds and music. As long as they cut out any music and don't show cutscenes and trailers they'll be fine.

Then in that Case LONGLIVELTT!

[Gunzkewl]

 

 

There are game publishers that are openly supporting Youtubers such as Blizzard, Capcom and Ubisoft:

 

That's why I love Blizzard . Props to Capcom and Ubisoft.

 

I'm not surprised if Nintendo is happy about this Content ID, they where the one against Lets play YouYube videos

[Gonk]

If you're interested here is another good video on this subject with a bunch pretty big youtubers including totalbiscuit:

[EzikialX11]

Considering the size of his channel and the amount of views he generates, he is definitely managed. The content id system will in no way affect him, hell networks would fight each other to the death for him, anyone would love to have that 40% or even just 10% of all that money he makes on his videos. And even if someone did file a genuine copyright claim, I'm sure his network would defend him to the last breath.

 

I believe that instead of ending Youtube, this will lead to the downfall of larger networks. This inspires smaller networks to appear in order to skip the monetization review, these small networks would probably be Youtubers that are good friends and often are together.

Good point.. But honestly.. its trouble for everyone even big networks. they don't want to deal with this. And google plus? that is god awful! they still have not got rid of that.. I just feel sorry for the smaller channels

or ones that are trying to start,

 

This reminds me of the days When NAPSTER was free... we all thought the world would end when we had to pay for that.. but like with everything in life.. there will always be other outlets to go to

[MatheusSanzo]

I don't really watch much gaming videos on Youtube as I did about 2 years ago.

 

But I feel bad for the 3 or 4 that I still watch.

[MagnetSh0CK]

I just think its stupid that games...from last gen, even last last gen, that last like 10-30 seconds are getting these claims. Like a MW 2 LOBBY video, not even gameplay. WTF! Half of my school is in a riot over this... (Yeah i come from a small school of 550)

[accelleon]

If you're interested here is another good video on this subject with a bunch pretty big youtubers including totalbiscuit:

Definitely was an interesting video, thanks! I generally avoided totalbiscuit's videos because it seemed as though he was pretty ignorant about the affiliate/managed issue that i noticed in his update videos, however the Garry's incident issue was terrible.

 

 

Good point.. But honestly.. its trouble for everyone even big networks. they don't want to deal with this. And google plus? that is god awful! they still have not got rid of that.. I just feel sorry for the smaller channels

or ones that are trying to start,

 

This reminds me of the days When NAPSTER was free... we all thought the world would end when we had to pay for that.. but like with everything in life.. there will always be other outlets to go to

Yea this definitely makes getting started on Youtube harder. The monetization review does not begin until January, but once that's in affect any small channel that has become an affiliate is going to either have trouble uploading daily content or trouble earning money. You become faced with the issue of do i upload and publish my video now and lose alot of money because my video isn't monetized yet or do i upload my video now, wait till the review is over which could take days and then publish my video.

 

 

I just think its stupid that games...from last gen, even last last gen, that last like 10-30 seconds are getting these claims. Like a MW 2 LOBBY video, not even gameplay. WTF! Half of my school is in a riot over this... (Yeah i come from a small school of 550)

Haha yea that's about my school. And as i said the content id system has no regard for any of that, it matches static content, such as the look of a lobby, and flags the video. If youtube was going to force this change upon these MCNs they should have revamped their content id system to not be so harsh. Alot of these videos fall under the fair use policy because they are a critique, and only show the trailer for a grand total of maybe 10-15 seconds.

[chillxnate]

Man, all this talk about big YouTubers being upset about losing ad revenue inspired me to do some research into exactly how much money all of these poeple have been making.... and let me tell you, do I feel like an idiot for going to work everyday. These people, I swear...

[Gonk]

Man, all this talk about big YouTubers being upset about losing ad revenue inspired me to do some research into exactly how much money all of these poeple have been making.... and let me tell you, do I feel like an idiot for going to work everyday. These people, I swear...

Well that is their work. Also, even if everybody had the knowhow and equiptment to be a "youtuber", most people wouldn't be very succesfull 'cause you also need to be entertaining; I can imagine most people aren't, even if they think they are.

[accelleon]

Man, all this talk about big YouTubers being upset about losing ad revenue inspired me to do some research into exactly how much money all of these poeple have been making.... and let me tell you, do I feel like an idiot for going to work everyday. These people, I swear...

They definitely do make alot of money but it comes at the expense of 10-12 hours in front of a computer. Seananners has discussed this topic and Angry Joe mentioned he spent 16-20 hours and alot of money making his Skyrim review, that's not even editing, only to have it marked by this content id system. Youtubers make anywhere between 55%-68% of the ad revenue that google recognizes, that's alot. And if they're signed up with a MCN they lose only 10-40% of that revenue. As one of the posts above said pewdiepie has it good as most subscribed and watched anywhere on youtube. And even as most subscribed you can never guarantee your future success, look at Fred. Hes pretty much faded from youtube but was also at some point most subscribed. Pewdiepie is a youtube trend, all trends fade.

[chillxnate]

They definitely do make alot of money but it comes at the expense of 10-12 hours in front of a computer. Seananners has discussed this topic and Angry Joe mentioned he spent 16-20 hours and alot of money making his Skyrim review, that's not even editing, only to have it marked by this content id system. Youtubers make anywhere between 55%-68% of the ad revenue that google recognizes, that's alot. And if they're signed up with a MCN they lose only 10-40% of that revenue. As one of the posts above said pewdiepie has it good as most subscribed and watched anywhere on youtube. And even as most subscribed you can never guarantee your future success, look at Fred. Hes pretty much faded from youtube but was also at some point most subscribed. Pewdiepie is a youtube trend, all trends fade.

 

I can respect Angry Joe's content. It's informative, well thought out, and well excecuted. PewDiePie on the other hand is essentially a glorified "let's player". I don't want to demean his work or act like he's not putting a lot of time into what he's doing, and I know he has donated a ton of money to charities, but it just boggles my mind that someone has grossed approximately $6.4 million dollars over three years for essentially uploading videos of him just playing the games. Like you said, he may be a fad, and he very well may fade into obscurity, but he'll be doing it a millionaire. Where as I went to college, busted my ass, obtained my techinical certificates, worked my way up the IT ladder, and will never in my life see $1 million dollars. It's a real bummer. And yes, I'm probably just jealous, but at the end of the day all these people QQ'ing are still making money via YouTube. I'd gladly take a pay cut to do what they're doing.

[accelleon]

I can respect Angry Joe's content. It's informative, well thought out, and well excecuted. PewDiePie on the other hand is essentially a glorified "let's player". I don't want to demean his work or act like he's not putting a lot of time into what he's doing, and I know he has donated a ton of money to charities, but it just boggles my mind that someone has grossed approximately $6.4 million dollars over three years for essentially uploading videos of him just playing the games. Like you said, he may be a fad, and he very well may fade into obscurity, but he'll be doing it a millionaire. Where as I went to college, busted my ass, obtained my techinical certificates, worked my way up the IT ladder, and will never in my life see $1 million dollars. It's a real bummer. And yes, I'm probably just jealous, but at the end of the day all these people QQ'ing are still making money via YouTube. I'd gladly take a pay cut to do what they're doing.

I do highly agree, yea sure he is comedic in his way, but its comedic because its that stupid, its like a joke that strikes you as so stupid you have no response but to laugh. Of course no offense to pewdiepie in anyway, he is somewhat amusing to watch, and yea i occasionally watch his videos, but ill watch markiplier, cryatonic, and seananners before pewdiepie.

[ThorBuildingLegos]

For me its more about priority. I went with YouTubes new G+ implementation because I already had a G+ account. Why not? Not using it for anything else anyways. I also think anonymity is overrated, as it can inhibit ones need to progress and develop as an individual by constantly having a filter in place that insures you cannot be held directly responsible for the things you say or the content that you put up on the internet (well anything that isn't terribly illegal that is). The problem is amplified when you're just one out of billions, so I'm personally trying this new more direct approach. That aside anonymity has its place and function and is definitely a necessity and I also think it was a dickish move to impose a mandatory G+ account tie in with the comment system without any proper grace time. But still it doesn't really matter because of what I said about not having that anonymity filter becomes a great troll filter in of it self - to force everyone to be public about their identity to instill a fear of persecution? Yeah... it doesn't sound very nice, does it? But as a function I think it will do wonders... other than that, I think Google allows you to have usernames on your G+ account now, which could be your name of choice on YouTube. I haven't tried it, but theoretically if you get to remove the link to your G+ profile link on youtube the old-ways anonymity is still in place and Google gets nothing more than a higher count of "registered users" on G+. But I'm guessing this is a non-issue as it has more to do with monetization... young budding businesses, eh?

The fact is that you (the viewer) and the content creators on YouTube willingly and without pause for thought continue to use the service after disagreeing so heavily to the changes that has been made to it. The whole idea is that if a business isn't providing the service the costumers expect -- they LOSE those costumers, unless ofc said business has monopoly on the means and methods of providing such a service and in this isn't the case with YouTube. This also applies to those who make money off of YouTube. There are plenty of other services, and if you're savy enough, why not start one on your own where you control the content? But I guess content aggregation would be a bit harder without a centralized point with many potential new viewers and consumers - but not impossible. There are plenty of people who make videos on the internet and do so through their own web-sites and other third party services. So there is just so many reasons to stop complaining to Google and to just directly reject their changes and try to find a new way of distributing content to old and new viewers. As long as you, the a viewer or content creator, disagree with their service changing but still put up with what Google is doing they will not backpeddle and admit defeat, but view your disagreements as nothing more but growing pains.

 

A big part of the problem is that the content creators are to afraid to lose what they have now, which is not what I'd exactly call "uncomfortable living". So they argue and bicker over semantics without taking that money and their fanbase and doing something smart with it. Here's an idea: make a public, free decentralized video aggregation service that gets its fees from content creators or distributors which serves as an intermediary communicator in the backend (i.e no one-site-stop solution for the viewer) and allow web-sites to advertise for similar content or content that the viewer might be interested in and jump from web-site to web-site seamlessly (providing a sort of tit-for-tat between people who make the same kind of content). This way the content creator has total freedom and control over how their content is published and the possibility of gaining more viewers, as well as having control over the domain and the ability to integrate other web-site services seamlessly with the content (i.e other ads, web-shop elements, the comment system could be integrated with the forum, lots of possibilities). Add a rating system for both content and advertisement (yes, we need ad ratings -- ads don't need to suck), not to mention including localized advertisement for city wide areas and you got yourself a potential goldmine that might even make Netflix turn its head...

 

Hmmm... which crowdfunding service is best right now?

[IdeaStormer]

Don't like YouTube get off of it, pretty simple solution. The moment many go off to another site YouTube will change or die.

[Raxxdude]

The only way to stop this bullshit is to take on the streets and riot, or stop using youtube (which is never going to happen)

Kinda pathetic how people think youtube is the biggest problem right now, while innocent kids in Syria are gassed to death.

Just don't, lets not go there. 

[LAwLz]

I asked this in another one of the "YouTube Disaster" threads: Are there any legit arguments to why this is bad except "baww I won't make money for playing games all day!"?

I mean, the old way networks worked allowed users to upload copyrighted content (such as games from companies that have explicitly said no to monetizing video that contains footage of their games) and bypass the checks. The only thing this does is make it so that some videos will be checked just like how all other videos are being checked.

It's just that partners no longer gets special treatment and have to go through the same process everyone else has. If they are scared that their videos might not be eligible for monetization then maybe they shouldn't have been allowed to upload the videos before either.

 

Oh and just to be clear, I don't think uploading video game footage should be against the TOS, but YouTube does have a responsibility to make sure no copyrighted material gets uploaded, and so far they have been slacking in that regard. Don't blame YouTube, blame the game developers and publishers for not allowing footage to be uploaded. And no, Let's Plays do not fall under fair use, just like uploading a full movie with you doing some commentary over it does not qualify as fair use.

 

Oh and the people that go "YouTube just cares about money" are just hilarious. That "TechReviewUSA" or whatever his name is said something like that (I think it was him at least) and it's hilarious because the only reason he is upset is because he can't make as much money from sitting on his ass playing video games.

"Baww YouTube only cares about money! I am really upset because I can't make as much money anymore". Such hypocrisy.

[Bluuz]

It's pretty sad how guys like Nintendo will go on a witch hunt for anyone who is essentially giving them free advertising.

Then they turn around and pay millions in advertising for TV.