VMWare ESXi for web hosting or hosting virtual servers?

[l11h]

Hi,

 

I am looking for ideas for a school project. The project is networking based and I was thinking of setting up a business network where I as an admin can easily set up web hosting facilities or virtual servers for clients. 

 

I have messed about with ESXi and there is the VSphere for the admins but how will a normal user be able to communicate with their own server that is set up for them? 

 

And can a virtual server e.g. Windows Server 2012 that has Active Directory, can that be used to for physical machines? 

 

Sorry for all these questions but I don't want to into doing the project and finding half way none of these are possible or really hard. 

 

Any help will be appreciated. 

 

Or if there is any other networking thing you think I should do (my lecturer does like Linux a lot, so some people have done CloneZilla to clone hard-drives, or done automatic installs (I can't really copy their work lol)).

 

thanks for all your help in advance  

[rufee]

If you have a beast machine you can simulate a working network with GNS3 and some linux, windows clients on the same machine.

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

A server in the hypervisor is the exact same as a physical server. You will need to used bridged networking adapters so they can be accessed over the network.

 

Stuff like database servers shouldnt be virtualised.

[Sheldon]

A server in the hypervisor is the exact same as a physical server. You will need to used bridged networking adapters so they can be accessed over the network.

 

Stuff like database servers shouldnt be virtualised.

From when can't database servers be virtualised?  

[Sheldon]

If you have a beast machine you can simulate a working network with GNS3 and some linux, windows clients on the same machine.

 I agree. GNS3 would work pretty awesome in this case!

[l11h]

If you have a beast machine you can simulate a working network with GNS3 and some linux, windows clients on the same machine.

Oh never heard of GNS3, will look into it, the project doesn't start until January but I like to do my research before and make sure I'm prepared for the project and get good grades

 

Another aspect of the project will be to compare similar products and evaluate which is better and all that. 

 

So the more ideas I get the better  

 

and finally thanks for all the help

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

From when can't database servers be virtualised?  

You could, but the performance wouldnt be any near as good as if it was on its own hardware.

[rufee]

A server in the hypervisor is the exact same as a physical server. You will need to used bridged networking adapters so they can be accessed over the network.

 

Stuff like database servers shouldnt be virtualised.

Whats wrong with that ? People separate the whole LAMP stack into their own virtual machines.

 

As for performance dedicated > virtual, it just give you convenience by having everything you need in one box.

[Sheldon]

You could, but the performance wouldnt be any near as good as if it was on its own hardware.

I don't understand. vAdmins know how to set up their servers. You would have even better performance. Its about provisioning and knowing what you are doing when it comes to that. Database admins know what need and a vm is better. Better up time and IOPS. 

[Sheldon]

Oh never heard of GNS3, will look into it, the project doesn't start until January but I like to do my research before and make sure I'm prepared for the project and get good grades

 

Another aspect of the project will be to compare similar products and evaluate which is better and all that. 

 

So the more ideas I get the better

 

and finally thanks for all the help

What do you feel the most comfortable doing? There is a lot of networking in ESXi, Even when you have more than one host. 

[l11h]

What do you feel the most comfortable doing? There is a lot of networking in ESXi, Even when you have more than one host. 

 

This project isn't just about a simple set it up and get your marks thing. Yes I can set up a single host but that to be honest will get me no where in terms of my marks. 

 

What I was thinking is either setting up Windows Server 2012 on a ESXi with physical clients connects to it, each server being it's own server e.g. Active Directory / DNS / DHCP and all that, and then i'll have to talk about other similar services and what they offer that's better or worse 

 

Or maybe setting up a hosting company type of. Where I can easily and quickly set up new servers within minutes, having different O/S's so web hosting is on Linux or maybe just LAMP on it's own with it's own so people can connect to it. At the same time comparing with other similar services. 

 

This will be within the school's environment and the computers there aren't really high end lol. My home computer is more powerful lol. 

 

Those are the ideas that I currently have with ESXi, what else can I do with ESXi or set up, any ideas? 

 

I'm thinking what i'm thinking right now is too easy as this project will last for 12 weeks, so some ideas will be of great help.

[Sheldon]

This project isn't just about a simple set it up and get your marks thing. Yes I can set up a single host but that to be honest will get me no where in terms of my marks. 

 

What I was thinking is either setting up Windows Server 2012 on a ESXi with physical clients connects to it, each server being it's own server e.g. Active Directory / DNS / DHCP and all that, and then i'll have to talk about other similar services and what they offer that's better or worse 

 

Or maybe setting up a hosting company type of. Where I can easily and quickly set up new servers within minutes, having different O/S's so web hosting is on Linux or maybe just LAMP on it's own with it's own so people can connect to it. At the same time comparing with other similar services. 

 

This will be within the school's environment and the computers there aren't really high end lol. My home computer is more powerful lol. 

 

Those are the ideas that I currently have with ESXi, what else can I do with ESXi or set up, any ideas? 

 

I'm thinking what i'm thinking right now is too easy as this project will last for 12 weeks, so some ideas will be of great help.

I think you have the right idea. You should add 2 or more hosts. 2 are fine for what you are doing. You can then make a vnetwork switch (using the term losely ) and run your servers on their. You could also have ESXi running on top of the host and "sell" that to customers. (A ESXi server that is a VM). Do you want each other those services to be on its own server? (DNS/DHCP/AD) How would you deploy the VM's fast enough. Would it be automated?

[l11h]

I think you have the right idea. You should add 2 or more hosts. 2 are fine for what you are doing. You can then make a vnetwork switch (using the term losely ) and run your servers on their. You could also have ESXi running on top of the host and "sell" that to customers. (A ESXi server that is a VM). Do you want each other those services to be on its own server? (DNS/DHCP/AD) How would you deploy the VM's fast enough. Would it be automated?

 

Well for the windows server 2012 they probably wont be automated as you have you set it up, unless there is a way of doing it automated which I do not know. Unless I have the base O/S save as snapshot and then deploy that and install services individually.

But in a business environment they will only set up Windows Server once and set it up once and that's it.

The argument that I will have is this way is better as a company can use one ESXi server to have multiple servers running each service (saves cost), so DHCP / AD and so on. I have heard it's easier to administer a server with only one or two services however, i don't have much experience.

And then have physical machines connect to the server and log in using the users made on the AD.

 

But I am also thinking about the a web hosting company. Obviously I wont be hosting it so anyone can access it, it will be within the school network. So quickly setting up a "web hosting" solution for the client.

Another service for this company could be setting up VPS. So say a client asks for an Ubuntu desktop for themselves, so have a snapshot of Ubuntu desktop and give the client the IP so they can access it. But what I was thinking how this would work. Would I need to set up Remote Desktop within Ubuntu Desktop? This seems more complicated to me but it may be really easy lol. 

With the terminal only service I know I can give them IP and port so they can access the server that way. But not sure about the Ubuntu Desktop.

 

I dont want to do something that really easy and can be completed within a few days. I also want something interesting. These two options I have said seem interesting to me however, you may disagree with me as you have more experience.

 

again thanks for all the help you are providing  

[Sheldon]

It depends on the case you have for windows server 2012/R2, You can automate it with VMware which will involve a lot of leg work on your side setting up. You can do the same with deploying ESXi hosts. The snapshots would cause problems down the road. Rather if you go that way, Make a template of each version of OS, e.g windows server 2012, Windows Server 201R2, ect. 

 

Your argument about the company and ESXi server. Well ( not saying your wrong but look at it this way) First you need "pay" for licensing if you are the "company renting the ESXi server" (OS side and remember the more VM's, the more licensing for VM/ESXi)  Normally people have a AD known as the DC-2 (domain controller) which will have DHCP/DNS/AD/ and other little serives. Then they would have a secondary DC-2 in case the first goes down. When it comes to windows server you can have 5 different VMs and manage it from one server hub/center. Its just cheaper so have the normally services running on one box. ESXi gives them room to expand, don't you agree? 

 

The hosting has more rules in the firewall side and setting up for the client if you think about it. All of them do. You would use VNC for Ubuntu or give the SSH access or webmin access. I agree with all of them. Just there's a lot to think about in the whole for either option. Remember that any PC ( virtual or physical) can connect to the AD, Have you checked out VMware Horizon?

[Atlantisman]

I have two virtual servers at my home, both have a Xeon E-3 CPU and 32gb of ram (both running vmware esxi), they can both easily support 10-15 completely separate operating systems doing tasks such as:

 

Routing

File Sharing

Active Directory

Torrent Server (using Transmission)

Web servers (2 of them)

Media Server

Minecraft Server

Development Server

Terraria Server

 

All of the above serve some kind of purpose and interact with other computers and network devices, i also have any number of other linux systems that are being played around with.

[l11h]

It depends on the case you have for windows server 2012/R2, You can automate it with VMware which will involve a lot of leg work on your side setting up. You can do the same with deploying ESXi hosts. The snapshots would cause problems down the road. Rather if you go that way, Make a template of each version of OS, e.g windows server 2012, Windows Server 201R2, ect. 

 

Your argument about the company and ESXi server. Well ( not saying your wrong but look at it this way) First you need "pay" for licensing if you are the "company renting the ESXi server" (OS side and remember the more VM's, the more licensing for VM/ESXi)  Normally people have a AD known as the DC-2 (domain controller) which will have DHCP/DNS/AD/ and other little serives. Then they would have a secondary DC-2 in case the first goes down. When it comes to windows server you can have 5 different VMs and manage it from one server hub/center. Its just cheaper so have the normally services running on one box. ESXi gives them room to expand, don't you agree? 

 

The hosting has more rules in the firewall side and setting up for the client if you think about it. All of them do. You would use VNC for Ubuntu or give the SSH access or webmin access. I agree with all of them. Just there's a lot to think about in the whole for either option. Remember that any PC ( virtual or physical) can connect to the AD, Have you checked out VMware Horizon?

 

Isn't using snapshots the same as templates? I thought they were the same thing, i guess i've been mistaken lol. I do have very little knowledge with ESXi but I am learning. 

 

Yes I understand the "business" side of ESXi as there are licencing fees and all that, but i'm pretty sure it's free if you dont actually make the physical company. Why i'm saying about in terms of a business is because the report I have to write will be explaining the ESXi in terms of a business and why it would be useful for a business, rather than having their own hardware. Saving space is one and money maybe? And from what I know what is the point of getting a high end server when your not utilizing it anyway? And yes the cost implication will be looked at in terms of ESXi compared to physical machines. 

 

I recently rented out a VPS for another school project and it was a Linux server. That server had an external IP (Guess they sorted that out with the ISP), but how did they manage to do that? I bet it will be a pain having to configure each VM manually for the IP. I guess they have a DHCP on the whole Virtual Environment and that DHCP server provides each machine with an IP Maybe? So they use the template like you said and then the DHCP server gives out the IP Addresses to each client? 

 

And yeah you are right the more I think about this the more complicated it's getting but you know what, i'm actually finding this more interesting, on how this could all work and all that. 

 

And yeah I was looking into VMWare Horizon, I may contact VMWare about their licence for school projects and how it will work. But I know for my project even though I use virtual machines which I probably will have to, I will have to use physical machines, my lecturer is kind of old school lol. 

 

 

I have two virtual servers at my home, both have a Xeon E-3 CPU and 32gb of ram (both running vmware esxi), they can both easily support 10-15 completely separate operating systems doing tasks such as:

 

Routing

File Sharing

Active Directory

Torrent Server (using Transmission)

Web servers (2 of them)

Media Server

Minecraft Server

Development Server

Terraria Server

 

All of the above serve some kind of purpose and interact with other computers and network devices, i also have any number of other linux systems that are being played around with.

 

Yeah something similar to what you said is what I need I guess. Like the routing, file sharing, active directory. And in terms of the "hosting company" (this is all fake won't really happen lol), having to quickly deploy Linux / Windows machines (depending on the user requirements) where they can do whatever they like e.g. install a Minecraft server, or other services. 

 

Another question I have for you is like I said above, how do you set the IP addresses for your servers? Do you do them manually as I guess that will be tedious, or do you have a DHCP server and if yes then which one if you dont mind me asking. 

 

Again thanks for all the help

[Sheldon]

Hi there ,

 

No snapshots are not the same. They are a "clone" of the VMs config and state and all that. That would cause problems. Templates let you change things on the OS before you even deploy it! ( It's fine ask away!)

well the way you "plan" ( fake business in away) on doing it. The licensing should be all free when it comes to ESXi because you just have one host and that's it. Just the OS side ( from windows and that) wouldn't be free but you can run windows server 2012/R in and 180 day trial so you dont have to worry about any of this and ESXi you can run in a 60 day trial. Well Yes getting a ( off of your set up for a second). You would have a Server with more than 2 CPU sockets and how ever much RAM in one server. But the one problem there is fail over because your ESXI server goes down and you have about 30 VM's running. That means that all of them are down so its depends on your environment and but that is why there is vCenter and stuff like that. 

 

For the VPS, What they do is all automated and they then have spricts that run and so on that will hand out an IP to the VPS you rented and they will say that it has to stay with that MAC address with is yours so use it is DHCP in a way but then on the DHCP side they reserve the IP to the MAC. That is one of the ways they do it. Login , order, they send it out to their system and then the system says ok, this host can have a VM on it and here is an IP. ( just ask if you don't understand)

 

Yes it is complicated but that is the fun part of it! That's why we are here, to help. You could also offer site to site VPN for the company who wants more than one VM server. But that is basically an add on. Ask away

 

[Sheldon]

I have two virtual servers at my home, both have a Xeon E-3 CPU and 32gb of ram (both running vmware esxi), they can both easily support 10-15 completely separate operating systems doing tasks such as:

 

Routing

File Sharing

Active Directory

Torrent Server (using Transmission)

Web servers (2 of them)

Media Server

Minecraft Server

Development Server

Terraria Server

 

All of the above serve some kind of purpose and interact with other computers and network devices, i also have any number of other linux systems that are being played around with.

are they all windows VM's? 

[l11h]

Hi there ,

 

No snapshots are not the same. They are a "clone" of the VMs config and state and all that. That would cause problems. Templates let you change things on the OS before you even deploy it! ( It's fine ask away!)

well the way you "plan" ( fake business in away) on doing it. The licensing should be all free when it comes to ESXi because you just have one host and that's it. Just the OS side ( from windows and that) wouldn't be free but you can run windows server 2012/R in and 180 day trial so you dont have to worry about any of this and ESXi you can run in a 60 day trial. Well Yes getting a ( off of your set up for a second). You would have a Server with more than 2 CPU sockets and how ever much RAM in one server. But the one problem there is fail over because your ESXI server goes down and you have about 30 VM's running. That means that all of them are down so its depends on your environment and but that is why there is vCenter and stuff like that. 

 

For the VPS, What they do is all automated and they then have spricts that run and so on that will hand out an IP to the VPS you rented and they will say that it has to stay with that MAC address with is yours so use it is DHCP in a way but then on the DHCP side they reserve the IP to the MAC. That is one of the ways they do it. Login , order, they send it out to their system and then the system says ok, this host can have a VM on it and here is an IP. ( just ask if you don't understand)

 

Yes it is complicated but that is the fun part of it! That's why we are here, to help. You could also offer site to site VPN for the company who wants more than one VM server. But that is basically an add on. Ask away

 

 

Hey  

 

As a student the school has an account with MSDN i think where I can get free Microsoft products so Windows Server and Windows Client which is why I had this idea in mind as I know this is doable without using trials. 

 

So with ESXi I can only run it on one machine for free? Yeah I do see that as a problem because if that machine does break down everything is shut down. 

 

So is there a cluster feature with ESXi? Or some feature where I can have multiple ESXi's running as one so if one machine breaks another can take over. Obviously this will not be done however, this will be written in the report on how to combat the problem of the machine breaking down. 

 

In terms of hardware the school hardware is kind of bad to be honest Lol, but my home computer has an AMD APU and 24GB Ram, yes overkill but RAM is what i've collected over years and they all work fine together ;D, and not all is mine lol. 

 

hmm.. vCenter never heard of it, will have to look into it  

 

And yes I am going to ask about the VPN thing lol. What do you mean by VPN? I know VPN is you can connect to a Virtual Private Network where all computers within that network are connected and also that traffic can be encrypted.

 

But what feature will the VPN have or can you lead me somewhere where I can do more reading upon this subject. 

 

So in terms of the VPS setup, I can have say 2 hosts 1 windows and 1 ubuntu, saved as templates, and if a client asks for either one i can set it up for them. So is there a way of scripts to be run for ESXi to automatically configure these settings? I wont be implementing this but I will have to write this in the report saying this service is also available. 

 

But like you said Yes this is fun and seems really interesting. Not been this intrigued about a school project for years lol. Always had to do "projects" that we had no choice over lol. This time getting a choice to do what we want lol. 

 

cheers

[l11h]

So i've been reading upon the project spec and it seems that the lecturer does seem to like Linux lol. 

 

I think for the Windows Server setup he will say well yes, all you need to do is set up ESXi Server, and Win Server on that server and never go back to it as you dont want it messing up, you see what I mean? and 

 

For the Virtual Private Server option I guess you could say it's more flexible, as each server could have as many hosts (with the correct licences) and they could be on Linux for hosting lol. 

 

To give you an idea of past projects majority are on Linux these are: Clonezilla, Internet Cafe on Linux, and making an unattended setup of Windows XP.

 

So just setting up windows server is not "good enough" if I was going to go that route. I guess making a Windows Server with Unattended setup which I know is possible but I'm not sure how the lecturer will react. Which is why at this time I want as many options as possible with or without ESXi. 

 

The Virtual Private Server setup seems more interesting to me as this is something i've never really looked into. And also with this there could be services saying certain servers with particular services pre-installed (i dont know much about Linux so ideas are welcome). So maybe one option could be Horizon Cloud for the clients, but as this seems interesting i'm thinking lecturer will say well "you're just installing different services". I think he wants me to concentrate on one particular aspect and used that software to an advanced level. 

 

So is ESXi an advanced topic? This is getting more confusing the more I think about it lol. 

 

Or maybe you can tell me something a business would use Linux for a particular software application and set it up. 

 

But if you think that I should stick with ESXi and use it to an advance level sticking to VPS business option, with maybe one Linux server getting advanced with a particular software option. 

 

Seems pretty interesting and that "one application" can be the "selling point" of this fake company lol. 

 

Need you guys to use your brains here  

[Sheldon]

Hi there

 

I love when you are able to do that, use the school account. There's also Dreamspark from Microsoft that will allow you to anything for free when you are a student.

 

With ESXi you can have more than one host with ultimate RAM and I think one CPU socket (Someone might correct me if you can have more than one CPU socket) 

 

With the cluster, Yes there is. Thats why there are normally never have any drives in the host server because the VMs are on shared storage ( something SAN (like a NAS but a lot different) so incase  on of the hosts go down, The other host can pick up the weight. Thats where vCenter comes into play. 

 

 

See there, I have two servers in that location that are in a cluster and they are able to fail over via different ways. The vCenter tells where the VMs should be put based on load on the hosts and other little things to do with the SAN. So vCenter and ESXi has a lot to offer. 

So with the VPN, Yes your right but site to site allows (there's also other types but this is one and they all do the same thing) to connect your house to the ESXi server in the data center. so your house IP range internally is 192.168.5.0/24 (e,g) then the hosted center would be 192.168.8.0/24 and you would be able to access the ESXi server internally . Make sense? 

 

There are many scripts for this If you need any, just can and i will pm you some. 

 

I love when schools give fun projects and not stupid things.....

[wako7654]

Active Directory, Mail Servers, NAS Servers and a Communication Server is usually what companies need.

 

Some linux-based platforms we use in our office environment include:

NAS

Network Monitoring Servers(Like Cacti or Nagios)

LDAP Servers

An IP PABX Server(Basically like Office communication Server, Lookup SIP Servers)

 

Hope that helps

[Atlantisman]

are they all windows VM's? 

No, most are CentOS 6.2/6.4

 

 

Isn't using snapshots the same as templates? I thought they were the same thing, i guess i've been mistaken lol. I do have very little knowledge with ESXi but I am learning. 

 

Yes I understand the "business" side of ESXi as there are licencing fees and all that, but i'm pretty sure it's free if you dont actually make the physical company. Why i'm saying about in terms of a business is because the report I have to write will be explaining the ESXi in terms of a business and why it would be useful for a business, rather than having their own hardware. Saving space is one and money maybe? And from what I know what is the point of getting a high end server when your not utilizing it anyway? And yes the cost implication will be looked at in terms of ESXi compared to physical machines. 

 

I recently rented out a VPS for another school project and it was a Linux server. That server had an external IP (Guess they sorted that out with the ISP), but how did they manage to do that? I bet it will be a pain having to configure each VM manually for the IP. I guess they have a DHCP on the whole Virtual Environment and that DHCP server provides each machine with an IP Maybe? So they use the template like you said and then the DHCP server gives out the IP Addresses to each client? 

 

And yeah you are right the more I think about this the more complicated it's getting but you know what, i'm actually finding this more interesting, on how this could all work and all that. 

 

And yeah I was looking into VMWare Horizon, I may contact VMWare about their licence for school projects and how it will work. But I know for my project even though I use virtual machines which I probably will have to, I will have to use physical machines, my lecturer is kind of old school lol. 

 

 

 

Yeah something similar to what you said is what I need I guess. Like the routing, file sharing, active directory. And in terms of the "hosting company" (this is all fake won't really happen lol), having to quickly deploy Linux / Windows machines (depending on the user requirements) where they can do whatever they like e.g. install a Minecraft server, or other services. 

 

Another question I have for you is like I said above, how do you set the IP addresses for your servers? Do you do them manually as I guess that will be tedious, or do you have a DHCP server and if yes then which one if you dont mind me asking. 

 

Again thanks for all the help

 

I use DHCP reservations for everything.

[Sheldon]

Active Directory, Mail Servers, NAS Servers and a Communication Server is usually what companies need.

 

Some linux-based platforms we use in our office environment include:

NAS

Network Monitoring Servers(Like Cacti or Nagios)

LDAP Servers

An IP PABX Server(Basically like Office communication Server, Lookup SIP Servers)

 

Hope that helps

Don't you love SIP Servers  :wub: ? Not many companies use NAS's, normally a File Server

[wako7654]

Don't you love SIP Servers  :wub: ? Not many companies use NAS's, normally a File Server

 

I wanted to say NetApp Filers, But i wanted to say an equivalent that doesnt cost thousands of dollars lol.